RE: The Shape of Things to Come

RE: The Shape of Things to Come (Full Version)

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IronBear -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 9:07:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists One of the issues that police officiers contend with on a daily occurance is the scum of society. The very inherent nature of their job puts them in contact with people that most of us never see or if we see them it is rarely. It takes a constrant reminder that what they see on a daily basis is only a small segment of society. That infact, their daily job doesn't actually allow them interact with a more balanced perspective of society. For many, they find alot other off duty activities to balance against this very negative aspect of there life. If young person is going to the bar, raves and such, well then being in these places doesn't give a balance picture of the group. It's more a perspective of the people in that specific environment. There is alot of young people that avoid these types of environments. Frankly, there is not alot of difference of the young of today than their was in the past. The environments to some degree has changed, if you don't like the people in that environment... GET OUT of the environment. Find a environment that gives you the type of people you are looking for. KoM, your first paragraph can be extended further to add that because of the daily association with the low life and criminal elements, Law Enforcement of all types tend to develope specific mind sets which often become an additional burden when trying to meet anddevelope relationships. Regarding your second paragraph, I have counselled for years that you must first decide what type of partner you want. To put it in an Australuan format of which I am more familiar, if you want a partner who is a professional, you need to know where they socialise and spend time in that environment. If you want an active sportsman, you seek him where others of his ilk attend. It you are happy with a pub guy, you frequent pubs.. But you don't look for a doctor at your local yobbo beer swilling pub, or a pub guy at and exclusive club..... Common sence which sadly a large percentage of people don't take into concideration for various reasons.

pollux -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 9:14:28 AM)
Depersonalizing this discussion a little, and getting away from Caitlyn's specific situation... I don't think that for women (or men) like her it's a matter of just seeking people in a different venue. My own experience is that if you have a person who has a track record of hooking up with people who have specific traits (e.g., a liar/cheater/player), they'll just find the liars/cheaters/players in the new venue. I think it's more a matter of figuring out why you're drawn to these types and then actively making different choices. I don't think it's enough to get out of the club scene and simply start attending regattas or corporate events or whatever. PS: there's still truth to what you say IB. I just don't think it's the end of the story for many people.

IronBear -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 9:25:45 AM)
Of course no pollux, Iagree with you and that is also part of the counselling process. My post was specifically af addressing what KoM was saying and in a number oif cases, especially in the vanilla world, it all that a number of clients/patients i see want .. just some help oin how and where to find the social/career type of peron with home they feel more confortable with..... If there has been a history of hooking up with paople who may be considered destructive and probably dangerous to the seeker's health and happiness, we need to look a lot deeper and find out why... I p[refer to take each person on a case by case basis which doesn't work well in discussion forums... [:D]

pollux -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 9:27:20 AM)
Agreed.

IronBear -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 9:35:59 AM)
Tosses pollux a can of iced Fosters [:D]

caitlyn -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 10:58:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pollux Depersonalizing this discussion a little, and getting away from Caitlyn's specific situation... Yes, it would be good of you to depersonalize this discussion a little, especially since you were one of the people that made it that way in the first place. [;)]

ExistentialSteel -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 11:18:46 AM)
Let's hear it for the depersonalization folks and Foster's Beer drinkers.

amayos -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 11:43:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Some truth there, amayos. Ever met a person that talks about how they appreciate someone because they "tell it like it is"?.............more likely they "appreciate" it as long as [the truth they're] telling isn't aimed in their direction. Few people can stand to be disagreed with. Quite true. Therein sits the shaded devil of the mind. So often we don't want other points of view; we want mirrors.

xxblushesxx -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 11:57:10 AM)
I know exactly how she feels. To quote from an e-mail I just wrote a few minutes ago... You're TOO good to me!! (but I'm sure that will change when you have me restrained...) What is wrong* with me?!!* It bothers me when you're too nice...and it bothers me when you're too strict! When you're being sweet, I want you to get 'toppy' and when you do get toppy I want you to be sweet. seriously...is this some sort of weird submissive bi-polar disorder?!! perhaps it could be called 'blushes subdivide disease?' You're not the only one who 'wants it all'. There actually seem to be some who can provide it! Isn't that great?!! Good luck!!

plantlady64 -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 12:10:25 PM)
Hi caitlyn, Don't make the mistake of assuming just because a Dom has the right to exercise power that he'll use it correctly. I find Doms as well as vanilla guys have the same social issues of dating. The bad part is the Dom has the ability to hurt you more in my opinion as you give yourself to him in complete trust. You say quote: Then, the clear connection is made. A dominant is just better! A dominant is just better, because at least you know exactly what you are getting. He isn’t going to lie to you … he doesn’t have to … he is out to use you. He doesn’t need to mentally hurt you … if he wants to see you squirm, he knows how to do it … and you know he knows. When he toys with your emotions, it’s ok, because you never really expected anything else from him in the first place. I say i wholeheartedly disagree. Doms are stil out there lying, making false promises, breaking their word, abusing their authority,and some even like to crush you mentally and emotionally right after they sense you finally feel safe. Sadists like many different types of pain. Some mental and some pysical. Mind you I feel there are some good Doms and Masters out there, but I think the percentage of Doms that are safe & truthfull are just as rare as vanilla good men are. I also think the same goes for the opposite sex as well. It's a common problem of all people in all types of relationships. I hope you do indeed find someone who can be a man of his word & mature enough to lead you in the ways you desire. Overall I'd say be very careful with this feeling you can trust most Doms. I think you'll soon see you have to keep your guard up in or out of the lifestyle pretty much the same. Suzanne

cloudboy -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/4/2006 9:22:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn Yes, it would be good of you to depersonalize this discussion a little, especially since you were one of the people that made it that way in the first place. [;)] I agree Pollux's POV, which is that "its not the market, its one's buying decisions in the market" which determine success. Somewhat to that end is the old saying: How do you get GOOD JUDGMENT? ----BAD JUDGMENT. ------- Just to talk a little about myself in the "dating market" I always had one criterea at the top of my list with girls. #1 has always been intellectual and tempermental compatibility. This did not lead me into an exciting sex life. In fact I pretty much repressed that, but it lead to many very satisfying, interesting relationships. "What do you think?" was something I could always ask any girlfriend I ever had. I suppose I might call it the Catholic Intellectual's default mode. At least this kept me out of the meatclever dilemma: quote: It just seems to me caitlyn you want a BAD guy that is a GOOD guy! Rather like many men want a VIRGIN that is a SLUT! It's what many of us fantasize about but it isn't reality. The fact is the good guy you want you might find boring and the bad guy, well...frightening but the truth is that most people are a mixture. --meatcleaver

meatcleaver -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/5/2006 1:29:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I suppose I might call it the Catholic Intellectual's default mode. At least this kept me out of the meatclever dilemma: Yep. I still haven't found that virginal slut after years of trying LOL. Now as I'm getting older my sights are getting higher too and I'm looking for an intellectual virginal slut. Intellectuals, I meet most weeks due to my work. Sluts (Their descriptions not mine) I meet regularly as I seek out scenes as I travel around. Virgins have long since disappeared off my radar though the truth is probably I'm far too old to appear on THEIR radar. Repression of ones fantasies is no bad thing when ones fantasies are totally unrealistic.

SoulfulSadism -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/5/2006 2:16:12 AM)
The posts here inspired a mass of jumbled thoughts and quotes from here and there. Stare at the abyss long enough, and it will stare back at you. The only people 'better' are ones whose courage outdoes their fears. Caitlyn's realizations after talking to her friends .... most, most women find confidence to be the biggest turn-on. Dominance is simply another step away. We are living in a age where life is too often analyzed instead of lived.

EmrysSwitch -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/5/2006 2:45:56 AM)
I have had an interest in D/s since before I can remember and I started to really explore it at an early age. So I have always kind of looked at dating through the lens of D/s. Reading your post really spoke to me because I have always had trouble knowing how to exist in the meat market that you described. I have also prefered the way things work with kink. The process of negotiation creates a great level of communication from the start. I hang out with my vanilla friens and hear the games they play with there girlfriends. It makes me glad that most relationships I have had were open and honest from the start. It is good to know that women your age have this interest in kink, because I have to admit it has been hard to find you. I always think that a girl I am getting to know will be too vanilla to really understand my lifestyle. On top of being a switch, I am poly. I figure its a lot for a woman my age to take in, so often I have not tried. Your post gives me a little bit of hope, maybe folks like you are not as rare as I thought.

Level -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/5/2006 2:50:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy "What do you think?" was something I could always ask any girlfriend I ever had. And you could expect a good and/or interesting answer, I bet. Much better than the average giggle/glazed ham look one sometimes can expect lol.

Vendaval -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/5/2006 9:34:29 PM)
Yes, selective criteria, bargaining and negotiation skills are quite valuable in the Meat Market. Ms. Experience is a REAL BITCH, but you won't forget the lessons. And yes, the Intellectual Default Mode does allow for fascinating coffee infused conversations and silly-giddy-pillow-talk. IMHO, -Vendaval- quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I agree Pollux's POV, which is that "its not the market, its one's buying decisions in the market" which determine success. Somewhat to that end is the old saying: How do you get GOOD JUDGMENT? -BAD JUDGMENT. Just to talk a little about myself in the "dating market" I always had one criterea at the top of my list with girls. #1 has always been intellectual and tempermental compatibility. This did not lead me into an exciting sex life. In fact I pretty much repressed that, but it lead to many very satisfying, interesting relationships. "What do you think?" was something I could always ask any girlfriend I ever had. I suppose I might call it the Catholic Intellectual's default mode. At least this kept me out of the meatclever dilemma:

Vendaval -> RE: The Shape of Things to Come (4/5/2006 9:50:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn Not long ago, I decided to start casually talking with my girlfriends about this lifestyle … you know, not coming right out of the closet to them, but just casually and subtly mentioning it. Subtly is the best approach with delicate subject matter. I was stunned, because most of my friends, girls I would have never imagined … have many of the same feelings that I do. Yes, their inner kinkster selves want to come out and play too! This got me thinking about the growth of the D/s lifestyle and perhaps what has been fueling all this. Oh, I know there is the internet, and people in Hollywood wearing fetish gear … but quite frankly, I think the influence these things have on people is greatly overblown … usually by people wanting to censor something. True, but the fetish gear is fun to watch and fun to wear. Censors are people with too little sex drive. So, what then is left? What is driving the shape of things to come? When you’re my age, the dating world is just a meat market. I don’t know if it’s always been that way, as I wasn’t around “back then”, but my one older confidant assures me that there was a kinder, gentler time when you could somewhat trust the people you dated. She tells me you could tell a player when you saw one. It was less socially acceptable to be a player a generation or so ago. Now you get to hear all the nasty "bitches and ho's and cribs" diatribes. But you know … I really don’t care if it’s just a meat market … as long as you know what it is, you can probably deal with it. It’s the subtle slime that some men (not cracking on men, that’s just who I’m dating), think they have to use to get into your pants … you know, it’s bad enough getting slimed, it’s bad enough having someone do it to get into you pants, but the worst thing of all is how it spoils future relationships. I’m getting to the point where I just assume up front that all men are lying, conniving, pig, lowlife, slime of the fucking gutter … because at least it saves me the time of getting to that inevitable conclusion. Ah, you are getting world wearing at a very young age. I don’t want those feelings. I like men, and like to be the kind of person that treats each person as an individual, and gives everyone a level chance. So … how does one fight these feelings? I can’t tell a player from a good guy … and to be quite honest, for whatever reason, I don’t even know if good guys exist anymore. Improve your social settings and loose any negative influences in your life. The young nice guys are usually rather socially shy around girls. You may have to draw them out a bit. Then, the clear connection is made. A dominant is just better! A dominant is just better, because at least you know exactly what you are getting. He isn’t going to lie to you … he doesn’t have to … he is out to use you. He doesn’t need to mentally hurt you … if he wants to see you squirm, he knows how to do it … and you know he knows. When he toys with your emotions, it’s ok, because you never really expected anything else from him in the first place. If you have no expectations, then you cannot be hurt. The bizarre truth, is that in a D/s relationship, you don’t have to worry about all these issues of pecking order … you don’t have to worry about all those naughty things that you want to do, but are just too embarrassed to discuss. If you are like me (and I would bet a lot are), if you have to talk about them … you could just never do them, because even talking about them makes you so self-conscious, that the sensuality of it is completely ruined. I know when I’m on a date, if the guys asks me if he can touch me there … the answer will always be no, because consent destroys the sensuality. A dominant will know, that if he gets a second date, that means the answer is already yes … so he doesn’t even have to ask. Dominant or no, he still needs to ask. You will have to communicate and negotiate the particulars of the relationship. A dominant is just better, because you don’t have to worry about a guy that is just going to play you … telling you all these wonderful things … tempting you with a wedding dress, and a happy life with children, a dog and a picket fence. A dominant offers none of these illusions … it’s about the needs of the sadist and masochist, or the dominant and submissive. No illusions = no lies = no heartbreak A dominant is better, because you let him know what you won’t do … and have a reasonable expectation that he will “force” you to do everything else. The limits are set up front. I think D/s is growing as an alternative for girls of my generation, because it represents “the evil that you know” (not to infer that any of this is evil) … you know what you are getting, and know where it will take you. Contrast that to the meat market, where the story seems to always change, the moment you sleep with someone. The abrupt change you speak of is a common problem with the insecure and the immature, no matter their age or kink status. These things were on my mind. [:D] Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. And please do not loose all hope in the males of our species. Some of them are gentlemen in the board room and passionate lovers in the bedroom. Regards, -Vendaval-

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