RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (Full Version)

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zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 9:40:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael ... If you want to date women with low self esteem, say a kajirah or something, that sort of petty emotionally manipulation works wonders.
 Why would you use a female slave as an example of a woman with low self esteem.  I'm genuinely curious. Well wishes,
Cav's ally


I'll give you one guess.


You have pre-conceived notions of what female slaves are and HOW we are and can't be bothered to take the time to find out if you are right? Let me save you the time....you aren't.



leadership527 -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 9:54:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus
I simply see this dynamic for what it is. Few are able to see the reality of it. I'm ok with that.

You can see YOUR dynamic for the reality that is YOURS. You cannot, however, see my dynamic or my reality. And honestly, don't you think it smacks of hubris to be telling other people what their reality is?



UniqueRaven -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 10:00:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael ... If you want to date women with low self esteem, say a kajirah or something, that sort of petty emotionally manipulation works wonders.
 Why would you use a female slave as an example of a woman with low self esteem.  I'm genuinely curious. Well wishes,
Cav's ally

I'll give you one guess.


Low self esteem.......hmmmmm.......[:D]

ETA: But, i'm not a kajirah, is that part of your point? Is it kajirah or slaves in general?

i still say hmmmmmm



SimplyMichael -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 10:08:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael ... If you want to date women with low self esteem, say a kajirah or something, that sort of petty emotionally manipulation works wonders.
 Why would you use a female slave as an example of a woman with low self esteem.  I'm genuinely curious. Well wishes,
Cav's ally


I'll give you one guess.


You have pre-conceived notions of what female slaves are and HOW we are and can't be bothered to take the time to find out if you are right? Let me save you the time....you aren't.



Yep, that's me, I think all women are weak, you sure got me pegged! I mean it isn't like you just reacted without taking the time to find out who you are responding to or anything.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 12:44:55 PM)

quote:

Yep, that's me, I think all women are weak, you sure got me pegged! I mean it isn't like you just reacted without taking the time to find out who you are responding to or anything.


Where did I say you think all women are weak? This isn't the first time you have taken a shot at Goreans and kajirae in particular and actually I know exactly who you are thanks. This isn't my first profile and just because we haven't chatted under this one does not mean I don't know who you are.



Focus50 -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 3:47:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Yep, that's me, I think all women are weak, you sure got me pegged! I mean it isn't like you just reacted without taking the time to find out who you are responding to or anything.

Awwww, Simply, all this evasive petulence and sarcasm - it's the stuff of teenage drama queens.

ally asked a very reasonable question of a comment YOU opened the door with. And she asked of "slaves", not women; slaves! And what, we're all expected to know the intricate details of your thoughts, prejudices and philosophies from your lame "I'll give you one guess" answer. tsk tsk

I admit I'm rather curious of the answer, too, so give me a spray by all means (lol) but as they might say in baseball - "batter up!"

Focus.



lucylucy -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 6:41:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Fuck the semantics. She either obeys, or is gone.
Label it whatever ya feel like it, wrap it up with fancy terms, write thesis about hair-splitting differences, I could care less.
In my house we do things on my terms or not at all.
Her opinions are occasionally asked, input is taken, hell, I even consider things like what's good for her, her headspace, and once I even thought about her feelings, but in the end we do as I decide and that's that.
That's how I like it. That's how she likes it. It's a happy shiny thing.

3 rules:
Serve, please, obey.

I had to laugh when I read this because my Owner could have written it. Kana, what you describe is very close to how my relationship goes.

I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses to my questions. It's not much of a surprise that the people who really believe that "the sub has all the power" aren't bothering to chime in.



belladevine -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/11/2010 11:28:36 PM)


I am sorry, I am not leaving. A Slave is happy to engage in a power dynamic scene.

No scene = No TPE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSRF3slguhI










ranja -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/12/2010 2:01:39 AM)

Everyone has power, some more than others

Some people really should not have any power (like Brown) but they have been given it by others anyway... unfortunately.

When the power goes off in my house lots of things don't work anymore

When my Husband can not be bothered to be all powerful over me i have a bit of power to change His mind...



SimplyMichael -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/13/2010 9:03:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Yep, that's me, I think all women are weak, you sure got me pegged! I mean it isn't like you just reacted without taking the time to find out who you are responding to or anything.


Where did I say you think all women are weak? This isn't the first time you have taken a shot at Goreans and kajirae in particular and actually I know exactly who you are thanks. This isn't my first profile and just because we haven't chatted under this one does not mean I don't know who you are.



I use only one profile because I don't have to change my name, its sort of an integrity thing but I wouldn't expect a gorian to understand that, so how many times HAVE you changed your name.

As for women having low self esteem, is it your point that no women have low self esteem? Or that only women have low self esteem? Its pretty clear to anyone who knows me that I don't even like women with low self esteem and that I only associate with women who are strong and independent because otherwise their submission doesn't mean anything to me.



Smutmonger -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/13/2010 9:11:06 AM)

There's a difference between strong in a woman-and just being a bitchy pms asshat.

I think it takes a lot more "strength" to stick to a program with some devotion than to just "do your own thing."

Didn't the hippies come up with the latter term? Noisy, druggie, emotionally incontinent unwashed assholes?

Some things never change!



LaTigresse -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/13/2010 9:30:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Yep, that's me, I think all women are weak, you sure got me pegged! I mean it isn't like you just reacted without taking the time to find out who you are responding to or anything.


Where did I say you think all women are weak? This isn't the first time you have taken a shot at Goreans and kajirae in particular and actually I know exactly who you are thanks. This isn't my first profile and just because we haven't chatted under this one does not mean I don't know who you are.



I use only one profile because I don't have to change my name, its sort of an integrity thing but I wouldn't expect a gorian to understand that, so how many times HAVE you changed your name.

As for women having low self esteem, is it your point that no women have low self esteem? Or that only women have low self esteem? Its pretty clear to anyone who knows me that I don't even like women with low self esteem and that I only associate with women who are strong and independent because otherwise their submission doesn't mean anything to me.


Michael, while I am sure you do not care......but I will say that, at least to me, your constant potshots at goreans really only reflect badly on you. Surely you can make a point without sinking to that childish (at least to my eyes) level?



Focus50 -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/14/2010 3:58:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I use only one profile because I don't have to change my name, its sort of an integrity thing but I wouldn't expect a gorian to understand that, so how many times HAVE you changed your name.

But but but.... you mean you didn't yousta be Crappydom???? Well shet mah mouth....

quote:

As for women having low self esteem, is it your point that no women have low self esteem? Or that only women have low self esteem? Its pretty clear to anyone who knows me that I don't even like women with low self esteem and that I only associate with women who are strong and independent because otherwise their submission doesn't mean anything to me.

Along with all that integrity, I just knew you'd come through being the better person out of this. If you're not already there, yorta take up politics. lol

Focus.



Focus50 -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/17/2010 6:16:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I use only one profile because I don't have to change my name, its sort of an integrity thing but I wouldn't expect a gorian to understand that, so how many times HAVE you changed your name.

But but but.... you mean you didn't yousta be Crappydom????

Geeeez, the sudden silence in this thread is deafening. So much so that it's gone and disappeared right off the front page. Now Simply, you weren't counting on that, perhaps...?

And I asked such a simple yes/no question of you.
Did you not go under the name of "Crappydom" (with or without the cap) before switching to SimplyMichael?
Mate, I'm questioning your very integrity here and it seems like you're ducking for cover. Say it isn't so...!

PS. You should know that I've noted you've posted twice since (and 2 days after) I first asked - so none of that lame "I've been busy living a real life in the real world" indignant crap, k? :)

Focus.



cpK69 -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/17/2010 7:19:27 AM)

~fr~

I don’t see either as having all of the control. I control me, while doing what he requires of me; he controls himself, and is the base/ground/foundation of the relationship.

I don’t see the ability to leave as having power, as I wouldn’t use it as leverage.

Kim



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/17/2010 7:44:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Yep, that's me, I think all women are weak, you sure got me pegged! I mean it isn't like you just reacted without taking the time to find out who you are responding to or anything.


Where did I say you think all women are weak? This isn't the first time you have taken a shot at Goreans and kajirae in particular and actually I know exactly who you are thanks. This isn't my first profile and just because we haven't chatted under this one does not mean I don't know who you are.



I use only one profile because I don't have to change my name, its sort of an integrity thing but I wouldn't expect a gorian to understand that, so how many times HAVE you changed your name.

As for women having low self esteem, is it your point that no women have low self esteem? Or that only women have low self esteem? Its pretty clear to anyone who knows me that I don't even like women with low self esteem and that I only associate with women who are strong and independent because otherwise their submission doesn't mean anything to me.


Ah I see, you get called out for remarks about slaves, those belonging to Gorean men in particular can't defend it, so you take pot shots. As to how many times I've changed my proflie that has nothing to do with this discussion but feel free to read my profile, it's all there.

I know you would love to deflect attention away from the question Ally and I asked you - no such luck. Once again: what makes you think slaves, and in particular those owned by Gorean Meen don't have self esteem?



SimplyMichael -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/18/2010 7:48:56 AM)

You guys are just so cute.

My opinion on women is well known and if you don't know it, that isn't my problem.  One of the reasons I despise Gor is it celebrates weakness in both men and women.

As for you Focus, you KNOW my old name, don't you?  Why?  Because I was open about why I changed it and OWN the fact that it was a name I used long ago.  Now, sit down and put that thinking cap on and read what I wrote, I said I didn't HAVE to change my name, I didn't HAVE anything to hide, I didn't change it to HIDE from something which was what I was accusing the woman of.   The reason I changed it was because I was trying to not be so sarcastic and the whole name was a snark on the names people choose.



barelynangel -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/18/2010 8:59:43 AM)

Michael, you show your own low self-esteem and your own insecurities everytime you show your obsession with a concept you "despise." ANd what's more, you are hoping enough people don't know about Gor so that they take your incorrect information and bullshit concepts about Gor and validate you. THAT is weakness Michael, and its sad. You are obsessed with Gor, it shows everytime you bring it up, which is quite often for someone who claims to hate it.

So instead of indifference -- which is what most people do as its the healthy way of handling things when they don't get something and they MOVE ON and focus on things they DO enjoy and get -- you despise Gor and run around hoping there is enough ignorance about it in people that you can spout misconceptions and wrong information and people will validate you and you will spread the hate based on misconceptions so you can feel validated. That is insecurity and weakness Michael. Its seriously time to move on and you focus on more healthy things than despising a concept you simply will never get. But that's okay, we don't NEED you too lol. Goreans don't need validation from others Michael, while it seems you do. To me, that is a sign of weakness and insecurity -- but that's just me.

I read your first posts here where you say what was it kajira have low self-esteem and i then continued to read the replies and smiled when no one gave your silliness any validation. That must have bugged you huh? I will say this Michael -- if you know Gor as well as you believe you do -- which you don't if these misconceptions are what you know -- kajira is actually simply a female slave. So in all actuality, you simply said -- female slaves have low self-esteem.

NOW THAT, i can believe of you, because to me in your writing, you are negative towards slaves in general (though you really don't like slaves of Goreans) because they scare you because i think internally you know that there is no way you could ever be what those women would need from a Man. The ability to master and enslave them. Its easier for you -- which is okay -- to have a woman humor you and supposedly GIVE you permission rather than her simply reacting to you because of the Man you are. You need her to VALIDATE you by GIVING you what seems to be submission so you get a hard on everytime she VALIDATES you with obedience. Most Men who are masters of women, don't need or expect that validation from a woman because he is secure in his mastery of her. HE VALIDATES HIMSELF -- he doesn't need women to validate him. Shrugs, well that's what i see everytime i see your writings on these boards. You need validation -- everytime the woman obeys you its validation that Michael must have been a good boy that day and so his treat is her obedience. That's called humoring Michael.

I am pretty ignorant of BDSM and D/s -- i know M/s rather well. However, due to my ignorances of BDSM and D/s, i am glad you are not the poster child of what transpires with Men in D/s concept because to me, i could never respect weak men who need women to validate them, i would laugh at their lack of strength in themselves. I am glad there are other examples of D/s out there that show me most men in D/s are not unhealthily trying to seek validation for benig a Man by having women humor him into believing he has control.

You don't despise Gor Michael, you are obsessed with it and are so desperate for it to be seen badly that you spout misconceptions about it in hopes there is enough ignorance out there that some people will validate your belief about Gor. BIG difference. Now i will say i don't know you thankfully, i get all this about you from your posts but i will say this -- maybe i have misconceptions about you that are misunderstandings about how you actually are and work as a Man. I don't think so but i don't despise you for your weaknesses Michael, i simply feel bad for you.

Move on Michael, its time to end your obsession and find something healthy to focus on.

angel



SimplyMichael -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/18/2010 12:46:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
i think internally you know that there is no way you could ever be what those (Gorean) women would need from a Man.


See, that is where you are wrong. I think women who choose Gor are the weakest of women and would bore me to tears. What you think of those women matters not to me.

quote:

-- which is okay -- to have a woman humor you and supposedly GIVE you permission rather than her simply reacting to you because of the Man you are.


I am quite sure you think that, but I doubt they do.



barelynangel -> RE: Beyond "the power to leave"--what is power, who has it, and how does it manifest itself? (4/18/2010 1:30:01 PM)

You know Michael, i had a post in response to your silliness above -- but i decided that your own words are your greatest reflection of you.

But i do have to say one thing:


quote:

quote:

quote:

-- which is okay -- to have a woman humor you and supposedly GIVE you permission rather than her simply reacting to you because of the Man you are.


I am quite sure you think that, but I doubt they do.


Maybe one day, they will allow you to know for sure. Good luck.

angel



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