RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer

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Level -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 4:51:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: That's another thing; you shit out most of the veggies... little absorbing of any nutrients going on. Interesting....don't suppose you have proof of that huh, Level? [;)] As much as anyone has of the opposite. I'm not saying vegetables are bad, I'm saying that thier main benefit is to help fill one up, without ingesting much carbohydrate, or calories. Sure, you get some nutrients from them, but not what PETA or the AMA would have you believe. Peter on his Hyperlipid blog has posted a fair amount on vegetables and fruit (fruit! candy from a bush). http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%281%29%20re%20post Dr Kurt Harris: http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/10/plants-and-plant-compounds-are-not-essential-or-magic.html These two came to mind; now, what they say, especially the Harris blog, is generally opinion, but as I find them credible on most everything else they post, I feel comfortable doing so regarding fruits and veggies.

pahunkboy -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 5:10:58 PM)
Dont mind him. He needs a colonoscopy. OOOPs. Sorry Level- it just oozzed out. ;-0

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 5:12:05 PM)
quote: These two came to mind; now, what they say, especially the Harris blog, is generally opinion, but as I find them credible on most everything else they post, I feel comfortable doing so regarding fruits and veggies. I might be less of a sceptic if it weren't for the fact that Harris is pushing his own diet.....which is high fat, low fruits and veggies. Surely you know that a balaced diet/exercise gives you a better shot at weight loss than one of those fad diets don't you, Level.

pahunkboy -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 5:17:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: These two came to mind; now, what they say, especially the Harris blog, is generally opinion, but as I find them credible on most everything else they post, I feel comfortable doing so regarding fruits and veggies. I might be less of a sceptic if it weren't for the fact that Harris is pushing his own diet.....which is high fat, low fruits and veggies. Surely you know that a balaced diet/exercise gives you a better shot at weight loss than one of those fad diets don't you, Level. He cant come to the phone now. He is in the bathroom taking an enema.

Level -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 5:27:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: These two came to mind; now, what they say, especially the Harris blog, is generally opinion, but as I find them credible on most everything else they post, I feel comfortable doing so regarding fruits and veggies. I might be less of a sceptic if it weren't for the fact that Harris is pushing his own diet.....which is high fat, low fruits and veggies. Surely you know that a balaced diet/exercise gives you a better shot at weight loss than one of those fad diets don't you, Level. It's not a "fad", it's how humans evolved. And, it helped me go from 260 pounds, to 155, and worked wonders on my blood sugar, liver function, acid reflux, and that boogeyman, cholesterol.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 5:42:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: These two came to mind; now, what they say, especially the Harris blog, is generally opinion, but as I find them credible on most everything else they post, I feel comfortable doing so regarding fruits and veggies. I might be less of a sceptic if it weren't for the fact that Harris is pushing his own diet.....which is high fat, low fruits and veggies. Surely you know that a balaced diet/exercise gives you a better shot at weight loss than one of those fad diets don't you, Level. It's not a "fad", it's how humans evolved. And, it helped me go from 260 pounds, to 155, and worked wonders on my blood sugar, liver function, acid reflux, and that boogeyman, cholesterol. I'm glad it helped you Level but it pisses me off that he is telling people that fruits and veggies have no or next to no nutritional value. And yes it is a fad diet, any diet that tells people to eliminate a food or food group is. I'm guessing that you will find that the opposite of what you are trying to do will happen oner the longterm. There is a reason that cavemen didn't eat veggies and fruit, they didn't exist. We have a system that is meant to have both, we aren't carnivorous we are omnivorous.

Level -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 6:03:53 PM)
Pissed off or not, he's right. Meat, eggs, liver, cheese, butter etc, are good for you, with easily absorbed nutrients. Veggies, meh. Fruit (which is altered to be far sweeter than nature intended, you might as well drink Kool Aid), is good for shooting off of people's heads, with arrows.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 6:13:59 PM)
And what does he suggest for avoiding scurvy due to lack of vit C ? How does he explain eating eggs and cheese and such things which were most assuredly not part of the caveman diet. Sorry, I'm not convinced this is anything but a fad diet.

Level -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 6:55:25 PM)
Eggs were indeed, though cheese was not. He gives dairy a pass, unless one is allergic to it. And it isn't just Harris, it's an ever growing number of people, including other doctors, and scientists, and researchers, that believe these things. There is a ton of reading you can do regarding scurvy/vitamin c... your best bet is to read Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories, he goes into great detail, but here is the gist: quote: Scurvy can be ameliorated by adding [fruits and vegetables] into the diet, but the original lack of vitamin C might be caused by other factors. In fact, given that the Inuit and those Westerners living on the Inuit's vegetable- and fruit-free diet never suffered from scurvy, as Stefansson observed, then other factors must be involved. This suggested another way of defining a balanced diet. It's possible that eating easily digestible carbohydrates and sugars increase our need for vitamins that we would otherwise derive from animal products in sufficient quantities The "Stefansson" he refers to is Vilhjalmur Stefansson, who lived with the Inuits for over a decade in the frozen north. No fruit, no veggies, no scurvy.

Termyn8or -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/11/2010 10:16:47 PM)
Now that you mention vitamin C....... From what I understand is that humans used to be able to manufacture their own vitamin C but lost that ability a couple thousand years ago. Nobody knows why, but at the same time then they do not know that ALL humans lost that ability. Only certain mammals can do it. But who's to say that people living in the (ant)Arctic circle lost the ability. I would think not because either they are dead or alive, since they're alive there are only two possible conclusions, one would be that they don't need it and the other would be that they can make it, like we make most of the vitamins from the foods we eat. In a way their own data proves them wrong. I don't mean the point expressed in the OP, I mean that for the most part this vitamin kick is all a scam. My buddy Jim Watt died of too many heart attacks in his fifties, and he had more vitamin pills than you could shake a stick at. However it is possible that most humans lost this ability to make vitamin C, and recently found was some interesting reseach by Linus Pauling which the journals refused to publish, which was a very rare occurance with Pauling. His assertation is that we need a hell of alot more C than we currently believe. Why Man cannot produce it internally is anyone's guess, but logically one would assume that those who lost it were in an environment where C was abundant. A simple matter of adaptation. If this is true is it possible to go back ? To again be able to manufacture C in our own bodies and not worry about it ? That too is anyone's guess but those people up north living off of whale blubber or whatever seem to indicate that it is possible by their very existence. Of course this type of information is politically incorrect because it could be taken as an assertation that certain "races" have a superior system when it comes to body chemistry. But as you know I am only politically correct enough - barely, to keep my ass from getting thrown clean outta here. I can say this much, if you think you can feed the same diet to a Japanese and a Swede and they'll both thrive, you are ignoring something. The natural adaptive process. T

pahunkboy -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/12/2010 2:25:52 AM)
I eat eggs. I eat meat. What I don't try to eat - is HFSC, white, refined, processed, bleached flours., I try to limit sugars. Get your breads and sugars right- and the bloat goes away. One needs nutrients. One does NOT need processed foods.

Termyn8or -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/12/2010 2:57:58 AM)
The Woman was on the phone the other day with another Woman who asked if she wanted a shitload of Stoffer's meals, like that. Pretty much TV dinners. She said straight out "I can't feed these Men that shit". That was good for a pat on the back at least. T

pahunkboy -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/12/2010 3:16:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or The Woman was on the phone the other day with another Woman who asked if she wanted a shitload of Stoffer's meals, like that. Pretty much TV dinners. She said straight out "I can't feed these Men that shit". That was good for a pat on the back at least. T Food chem is an area that you are clever in. I wish I caught on 20 years sooner. You really are what you consume.

CarrieO -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/12/2010 5:03:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: CarrieO So....eat you fruits and veggies, they're still good for you. [;)] An unproven hypothesis that may very well fall by the wayside, along with "fat is bad". [:)] There are so many anti-nutrients in vegetables, and nuts also, that keep the body from absorbing much of whatever benefit they may offer, I doubt that they're the miracle foods some make them out to be. Eat your meat, and leave off the pudding! Hi Level, My post was in response to the study you offered. I agree, fruits and vegetables aren't "miracle foods"...no food is. That being said, certain vegetables have a place in a healthy diet, usually dark leafy greens. As for the other links you've posted, the Kurt Harris/PaNu site has been very helpful for me just as a way to organize my thoughts on low/no carb eating. Another interesting link... http://www.westonaprice.org/Guts-and-Grease-The-Diet-of-Native-Americans.html Also, I'd like to offer this link, http://www.collarchat.com/m_2878937/mpage_1/tm.htm , to my favorite thread for diabetics in which Level posts some great links. [;)] I've had a late start to my day or I'd offer more because, Level, you know this is of interest to me.

Level -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/12/2010 8:24:58 PM)
Hi pretty lady. Great Weston Price link! And both Boyd Eaton and Loren Cordain are sloooowly coming around, regarding sat fat. Prof Cordain: quote: If we believe the results of this pathology, that we have atherosclerosis in people who never consumed carbohydrate, always ate a high fat, high protein diet, this atherosclerosis who always consumed a high fat, high protein diet. Then the question comes up, did they ever suffer a fatal MI. My opinion is that they probably didn’t. http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/03/24/loren-cordain-caution-on-saturated-fats-disaster-with-grains-will-be-public-after-march-25th/comment-page-1/

CarrieO -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/13/2010 4:35:31 AM)
Level, Very informative link...you rock! I'm curious where quinoa fits into the conversation since it's a seed not a grain that's related to beets, chard and spinach and is seen as a "complete protein" by some people. Here's a few on saturated fat you might find interesting. They're not new but they're still food for thought.... http://97.74.65.51/Printable.aspx?ArtId=23798 http://www.survivediabetes.com/Essay/Cholesterol%20Does%20Not%20Cause%20Heart%20Disease.htm http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf+html Sorry I seem to always bring this back to diabetes but nutrition is a whole science that affects the whole person. This is why I tend to raise an eyebrow whenever anyone recommends one particular food. You can't look at a food and say it's the be all and end all for all. On a more personal note, if you have more interesting links that are food/nutrition/diabetes/carnivore related, Level, I would really appreciate if you could send them to me in a pm. Many thanks for what you've provided thus far.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/13/2010 4:40:07 AM)
Decaffeinated Earl Grey tea is good, too. [;)]

Termyn8or -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/14/2010 1:31:25 AM)
FR To keep a long story short, of all the research I've done in the last couple fo decades I can boil it down, a bit oversimplified perhaps but down to one statement, and I will type it and you all can judge it, but think about it first, very carefully. Here is the statement : Don't eat anything that is white or blue. Go ahead and tear that apart, but give it some thought before you do. T

hopefullittleone -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/14/2010 2:18:14 AM)
The Inuit do eat berries. In fact one of their common dishes is berries pounded with kidney fat. And I have read that they get much of their vitamin C from the organ meat they consume. Brief Googling yields this: http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox/article_view?b_start:int=1&-C

Level -> RE: Eating vegetables offers no help against cancer (4/14/2010 2:42:17 AM)
Not all Inuits ate them, because not all of them had/have access to them, IMO. The ones that did eat them, did so only in the brief summer, and really, do you think there were huge berry bushes up there in the tundra? Also, the berries that ARE there are far less sweet than the genetically altered berries we find in our stores now. But yes, SOME did eat them, and they definitely did eat organs, and marrow.

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