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RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/12/2010 4:33:53 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Unfortunately changing my behavior took a lot of work on his part because by that point, my reactions were engrained in me.

He was a very patient man then. I guess we all have our degree of how much we want to invest. I think that if we don't learn and change, we aren't evolving. That said, there are challenges and there are challenges!

- LA

One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I was upfront with him about it. So he knew what was going on from day one. I told him all about the ex and how, when the relationship turned bad, he became emotionally abusive, and then physically at the end. So he knew I wasn't doing this as any sort of a game but because it was a kneejerk response.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 41

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/12/2010 7:34:50 PM

AllLockedUp

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

- Are you or have you ever been a daredevil submissive?
- When you do so, are you only looking for the thrill of the dynamic?
- Have you ever found yourself starting off like this and then wanting to offer your submission up more easily down the road?
- Was it a question of just finding the right person to do this with to start giving up the power voluntarily?

- LA

-Yes, I have and still am.
-It is my nature.
-I have AMOST been broken.
-Yes, He is still looking for me.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 42

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/12/2010 8:49:26 PM

beej

Posts: 145
Joined: 1/24/2010
Status: offline

quote:

6) he needs to know, and periodically be reminded, that the woman he's submitting to is strong enough to overcome his resistance.

or even just strong enough to harness what she's asked him to give over to her care.

i'm a daredevil submissive and not just in kink either. i have exactly three non-sexual loves, have had them for over a decade, and i'm emotionally submissive to two of them. yes, leopards do have spots, and no, i never stop pushing against the restraints. partially that's because i haven't just given them my service; i've given them everything in me, and it's scary. but that's what a daredevil does: risk life and limb on whatever it is. that's just the way that i approach life. i'm always upping the ante and taking things a step too far to see what will happen. i don't act defiant or push the limits of my loved ones to test them. it rarely ever has to do with them and thus is not a "recurring struggle" like you were wondering. i'm just always staking my life on things and then feeling the shudder force of those gambles later on, and it ripples through my relationships. do they have my constant obedience as a measure of love? no. they don't expect that. but they expect my loyalty, one hundred percent and unflinching, and they have it with regard to anything to do with their lives and pursuits. i don't ask questions; whatever they propose for their own lives and that they want me involved in will get done by whatever deadline they set. perhaps that's just a different sort of submission than is the usual case. less like a lady having a servant and more like a Greek goddess having a champion.

for me, it's always thrill seeking at first. i met my best friend because she was the person that i wasn't supposed to be friends with. she got me by daring to tell me my own business, by sort of seeing around my terribly smart and deeply held opinions and my put-togetherness and my successes, and by not flinching in the least when i got all growly and feral because i hate being told about myself. she had to break me in a few times during the first year that i knew her, and she's had to break me in periodically since then but again, not because i'm testing her. what happens is that i'll have a big idea and i'll be ready to gamble everything that i have on it, which includes her. usually then she'll crack a whip across my ass for being such a flipping idiot to think that i could go on without her, and i quickly recall that she's totally right, and then i go to her pitiful and on one knee and re-pledge my allegiance for fear of losing her. i'm always, ALWAYS, every single time totally surprised and awed to discover the same thing: she never has gone anywhere and never will. everything else that i touch caves in under pressure if i apply enough, and i marvel that she doesn't, and i adore her for it. she's stable; she's the Earth. i'm a comet or a star or something burning hot and likely to burn out if i don't stay in her orbit. i worship her when i remember this, and that happens kind of all in a great rush every few months, and then i make all kinds of gestures of total devotion at random on a Tuesday afternoon. this is not submission on demand or daily devotion, but it is very pure devotion that can always be tapped if you ask for something or make an ultimatum. i know what that must sound like, and some will ask "who wants to put up with that?" and some will say "healthy relationships don't involve ultimatums," and i say to each their own. again, over a decade, there are two people in my life who cannot be touched. it's as binding as blood.

so i propose that you can know whether this type of person is worth your pursuit as follows: 1) if you're hoping to turn a lion into a house cat, it won't happen and you'll be frustrated; 2) measure your daredevil not according to whether he pulls against the restraints (which he will) but according to how he responds after he breaks free and you order him to come back. the beauty of a daredevil is that we make do or die decisions pretty effin' quickly. you don't have to linger forever with a man like this to know if he'll come back when you call. he may not do it gracefully at first. it has taken years for my BFF to train me to do anything gracefully, but i always do what she asks no matter the humility or discomfort that it costs me. if acts count for more with you than attitude, its easy to tell if this kind of person is yours. simply put, we will do what you ask. i might liken it to the difference between having a paid bodyguard in a suit trailing you around, or having a phone number and an in with an ex-special forces guy. special forces may not be standing at your side all the time, but if you call, he'll be right there and do whatever it is that needs doing.

shared from my personal experience and thus unabashedly subjective and a little rambling. :)

(in reply to AllLockedUp)

Post #: 43

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 1:02:03 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

Our fem sub is a bit of a daredevil submissive.
She was mine before I met Steve and then had a break before coming back to both of us. Its interesting observing her interactions with Steve and comparing them with her interactions towards me.
To me, she is very submissive but she wasn't always that way. What I am seeing between Steve and her now is how she used to be with me. Its interesting watching them both, seeing how he handles her, how he reacts to her daredevil ways. I know he can subdue her but he understands that she doesn't come ready made in a tin.
At the moment she is like two different people! Steve isn't daunted by that. He can see the end result and he knows she's worth fighting for but for now she is basically putting him to the test.
I just have to smile and feel sorry for her because I don't think she knows what she has let herself in for

I have witnessed at first hand her daredevil antics and her testing ways and I have seen her come out of the other side of that. She told me that during our break she saw a few dominants but she gave them a hard time and they were overwhelmed by it. That was their loss because when her submission does come through its the most beautiful thing and certainly worth the fight. I asked her why she did that and she told me that she would feel foolish submitting herself to someone who really didn't have the ability to dominate her. I don't blame her.
When you get on a young horse it will test you out. Are you capable of riding on its back or can it bring you to the ground ! It won't just let any moron sit up there but needs to feel safe with a competent person. I don't see this as any different.
I have had both male and female submissives where its instant. I start asking myself if they are just playing a game. I wonder why they don't test me and find out my full nature. Are they prepared to drop to their knees for anyone who calls themselves a dominant?

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 44

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 1:58:35 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

- Are you or have you ever been a daredevil submissive?
- When you do so, are you only looking for the thrill of the dynamic?
- Have you ever found yourself starting off like this and then wanting to offer your submission up more easily down the road?
- Was it a question of just finding the right person to do this with to start giving up the power voluntarily?

-Yes it is nice to be conquered, it is brilliant to have a physical fight and lose to Him, it is also very good to have this intensive flirting going on at times. It is however a bit unrealistic to expect this passion to be a daily thing, it would indeed be exhausting and also get boring if it is always like that.
- it is not just the thrill of the dynamic, it is the exact point that He beats me that is the most exquisite
- if i want to submit i can stop fighting immediately and bend to Him...
if He does not want the passion He has all the strength and brains to stop the dynamic right when He wants to; He does not have to play the game if He does not want to.
- He has the power, but i have mine too
we play games, sometimes our games are rough, sometimes they are very soft, sometimes we seem vanilla for a while until we get bored and pull our socks up and get lovely and kinky again.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 45

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 6:13:03 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

When you get on a young horse it will test you out. Are you capable of riding on its back or can it bring you to the ground ! It won't just let any moron sit up there but needs to feel safe with a competent person.

I like this comparison because it's so true. And not just the young ones. We've just leased out my daughter's horse. And the kid loves him but she can't ride him for beans. He plays out all his tricks because she lets him. My daughter watched this, climbed up and in a minute he was a different animal. She knows how to ride him and the young kid doesn't. But that didn't happen overnight. It took six months of working him day to day before he decided she did know what she was doing and he would just behave (mostly) when she rode. He still makes it clear when he's tired and she needs to stop, which she does.

And this is a horse, not high on brains in comparison to people.

In order to feel safe, I had to know that The Man would rein me in when I needed it, and that he knew what he was doing. And that took living together to get it viscerally into me. I needed the security on a day to day level. Meeting once every six weeks for play just wasn't enough.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 46

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 8:22:11 AM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

- Are you or have you ever been a daredevil submissive?
- When you do so, are you only looking for the thrill of the dynamic?
- Have you ever found yourself starting off like this and then wanting to offer your submission up more easily down the road?
- Was it a question of just finding the right person to do this with to start giving up the power voluntarily?

I guess there is a point where I need to know that the relationship is solid and that the struggle is akin to keeping it hot rather than feel like I'm really having to conquer him over and over again.
These are good questions. To be honest with you, I think I'm less and less attracted to the ones that want to be conquered, but all the while attracted to those who are a challenge and don't give it up all that easily. I've always been attracted to men with high standards as that creates a challenge for me and feeds the slightly competitive, more than slightly overachiever side in me. So rather than "Catch me if you can', it is "You can catch me, but you must be this (make me feel this)".

Hmm, I don't identify as a daredevil per se, but I *DO* enjoy an adrenaline rush. Both in the context of BDSM and some of the physical activities I enjoy such as martial arts and gymnastics, it can be a rush. I like doing things that seem scary on one level, but are actually pretty safe. Butterflies in the tummy are good, actually being likely to die or have permanent damage, isn't.

The dynamic is far less important to me than the interaction with the specific person. When I was looking, I was open to someone of any orientation, but I refused to call someone my submissive or my Dominant or my Master or my slave if I was just topping or bottoming to them. I think it's important to be honest about the dynamic and the emotions that are tied into it.

I spent years being resistant to the idea of submitting to anyone, and getting a little annoyed and argumentative about it, especially with the ones who felt I should be submissive just because I'm a woman.

The first person I reacted submissively toward didn't want a relationship/dynamic that was workable for me, so it was a very difficult situation to be in. Submitting to my Master and to my previous Dominant of 3 years both came surprisingly easily. Some of the things they wanted of me were tough, but I fought myself internally, not against them.

I don't give up power voluntarily per se, I don't make a conscious decision to submit (or to dominate) any more than I decide to fall in love with them. I can avoid acting on my submission or my dominance if I feel the person is a poor fit/match.

I don't do "you can't catch me" or "you can catch me if you do/are this," my attitude was, "I don't know whether or not I'm capable of being submissive until we interact. I can bottom, I can obey, but until you pull my hair and give me orders to do things I don't like, I honestly won't have a clue one way or the other whether you'll inspire submission in me." On the dominant side, it's pretty much the same deal, for that matter - until they looked up at me with a vulnerable expression, until they were doing service-oriented things, until they were reacting to *ME* I wasn't about to call them my slave/sub just because they were willing to clean my house or get thwacked.

Aakasha, I do pretend to be resistant, but it's not intended to be manipulative, and I discuss it with my partners ahead of time. It's playful a bit, but I have a fairly strong kink for having my muscles strained in an all-out attempt to pin the other person down or evade a pin. I can abide by any limits the person has - for example, no biting, no counterstrikes, no throws, and so on. I enjoy it a lot with both my Master and my submissive playpartner - who wins isn't as important as the struggle. At the same time, being literally overpowered *DOES* feed my submissive inclinations, and overpowering someone else does powerful things for my headspace when I am dominant toward someone. I still have fun either way, and I can still submit or dominate without the struggle, but it can reinforce it very effectively either way.

I'm rarely bratty about it, but I did have a couple of impromptu scenes where I've stuck out my tongue and said "You are not the boss of me!" or something similar, and once I threw legos (gently) at a Top I was dating. They didn't take it as genuine rebellion or defiance, we were just being playful and having fun in the moment.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 4/13/2010 8:24:19 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 47

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 8:44:05 AM

seekingOwnertoo

Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I feel that I've met a lot of men who correspond to number 1, 2 and 5. That is a perfect definition of a pure daredevil submissive who will never change.

DWCskitten explains how she was like this until she met someone who she could submit to. So did Pyroaquatic. They might have corresponded more to number 3, 4 and 6—I know, I'm making huge assumptions here.

As i may have mentioned else where, i live in an area with an unusually high concentration of the type of men You are discussing here. In fact, one might say, they are my "frat boy" buddies. ;-)

What i can tell You is we never discuss D/s or BDSM, except jokingly, or in talking about one of the "groupies" that flock here. (You are not very exclusive in liking the type. ;-)

That said, i can tell You ... there are two distinct types.

First is the guys that will never change. Ever, for any reason. They will always be selfish. And they use women. period.

The second, is the guys who actually do care about others ... and You see this in little, unintended day to day activities. They actually surprise You at times ... with a "boy scout" type good deed, when they personally have nothing to gain from it. And i know a couple of these guys actually got married, too. Later in life, but they did.

So i will say, when You divide them into two groups based on Your numbering system ... You are definitely going in the right direction.

Hope this helps.

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 4/13/2010 8:46:37 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 48

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 8:50:30 AM

takemeforyourown

Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline

I suppose that I'm a daredevil submissive. I egg on my vanilla husband so that he will 'act' dominant. (Since I discovered my kinky side after I'd already walked down the aisle) If I were in a 24/7 relationship, I don't think I'd have the guts or desire to act that way.

< Message edited by takemeforyourown -- 4/13/2010 8:55:05 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 49

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 9:26:01 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

I have had some run ins with the op, I just don't think at times you guys "get it." You think you are in control, but you are the ones being continually pursued by the guys that want to be "dommed."

You say you want strong men but who really is in control? Just because you have the strap or the whip doesn't mean you own the day.

It's really is a very odd dynamic. I often see the disdain that dommes hold for subs within these posts. I can understand at times from where the resentment stems.

How do you respect a man that will do anything that is asked? He might feign revolt or revulsion but the hard on speaks louder than words. It reminds me of Stewie from the Family Guy where he is trying to get Lois to hit him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

1) he's mostly vanilla, and kink is his 'flavor of the month' - he thinks this is the way a submissive should behave in order to be interesting prey
2) he's a fairly savvy manipulator and knows how to "make" women top him; he insists on being in control, and by manipulating the process and playing the "catch me if you can...oh you caught me..oh you didn't, I was faking!" he can be in control all the time

Akasha

This sums up a lot of what transpires out here. You might get your feet rubbed, your toilet cleaned or a few extra bucks in your pocket but at the end of the day he is getting exactly what he wants.

_____________________________

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 50

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 10:04:35 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

Yes, but does that matter?
Does not everybody like to get or give exactly what they want?

Is it not a case of playing eachother to satisfaction rather than one or both not getting what they want and one or both getting totally fed up with it and straying off to try another and another and another

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 51

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 10:15:03 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

Yes, but does that matter?
Does not everybody like to get or give exactly what they want?

Is it not a case of playing eachother to satisfaction rather than one or both not getting what they want and one or both getting totally fed up with it and straying off to try another and another and another

Pretty much spot on. You do get the pleasure of pushing a sub in directions they may have never felt possible but at the end of the day, (my favorite saying till the end of today) if you are not both somewhat satisfied there is probably little chance for long term success.

You see it in so many profiles...The BBD (big bad dom) proclaiming that he/she will take you and use you as he/she sees fit and you will be nothing more than my pleasure puppet and slave bitch.

all the while the sub is rubbing one out at the thought of getting exactly what it is that they are seeking.

just another meeting of the minds, wants and desires.

_____________________________

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 52

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 10:46:11 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

yes, i love it when i get to play and be played good like that

the feeling of being used in a negative way can be felt by anybody, Domme or Dom, and sub or slave, male or female... and not only about sex
i am sub... i have been used but i have used guys too (and not as a Domme, i have never dominated a man)
it does leave one sort of empty really
it is much more interesting to play with a matching opponent

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 53

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 7:40:28 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I just don't think at times you guys "get it."

And I'm quite convinced that you don't get it at all.

Truth be told, every single relationship I've had with a strong submissive man has been wonderful. It is the dating part that sucks. But funny, I hear many other individuals, male or female, kinky or vanilla who experience the same feeling.

Frankly Domiguy, I think to say that we have had run ins is an understatement. You have been downright disrespectful. You don't understand me one bit. You don't even try. And you know what, that's just fine by me because your opinion and your approval aren't worth a grain of sand to me. We will both do best just staying out of each other's way. The boards are big enough.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 54

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/13/2010 7:48:15 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I just don't think at times you guys "get it."

And I'm quite convinced that you don't get it at all.

Truth be told, every single relationship I've had with a strong submissive man has been wonderful. It is the dating part that sucks. But funny, I hear many other individuals, male or female, kinky or vanilla who experience the same feeling.

Frankly Domiguy, I think to say that we have had run ins is an understatement. You have been downright disrespectful. You don't understand me one bit. You don't even try. And you know what, that's just fine by me because your opinion and your approval aren't worth a grain of sand to me. We will both do best just staying out of each other's way. The boards are big enough.

- LA

Maybe I get it better than you think. You are a dominant woman but can't find someone to date "successfully" out of all of these strong, intelligent and wonderful suitors?

Odd statement...might make one think it isn't them.

Take care. The boards are vast. You should get into Chicago, have a few beers with the boys. Much nicer in person.

_____________________________

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 55

RE: Deconstructing the daredevil submissive - 4/14/2010 5:10:20 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I just don't think at times you guys "get it."

And I'm quite convinced that you don't get it at all.

Truth be told, every single relationship I've had with a strong submissive man has been wonderful. It is the dating part that sucks. But funny, I hear many other individuals, male or female, kinky or vanilla who experience the same feeling.

Frankly Domiguy, I think to say that we have had run ins is an understatement. You have been downright disrespectful. You don't understand me one bit. You don't even try. And you know what, that's just fine by me because your opinion and your approval aren't worth a grain of sand to me. We will both do best just staying out of each other's way. The boards are big enough.

- LA

Maybe I get it better than you think. You are a dominant woman but can't find someone to date "successfully" out of all of these strong, intelligent and wonderful suitors?

Odd statement...might make one think it isn't them.

Take care. The boards are vast. You should get into Chicago, have a few beers with the boys. Much nicer in person.

Oh gosh. Part of the reason I'm single right now is self-imposed. I meat great guys on and offline all the time. Stop making an issue out of something you don't have a full picture of.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 56

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