RE: When is it too much? (Full Version)

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tendergirl -> RE: When is it too much? (4/8/2006 5:15:54 AM)

Being a submissive comes deep within your soul.  Submission emanates from you when under your Dom's control in my opinion.  Your post sounds as if you are not really submissive at all, except for the part of you that really wants to please Him. 

I don't think you are doing the right thing for yourself at present.  You are the most important thing in your world and you should treasure yourself first and foremost.  If you are not happy, please take time to examine your needs first.  Then you will either move away from this relationship and find happiness or understand yourself better, enough to handle what He needs from you.

You gotta love you first.....

tendergirl



hislilprincess -> RE: When is it too much? (4/8/2006 1:01:09 PM)

You're right. I don't see myself as a submissive. I would have nothing to do with bdsm were I not with Mike. But he's very into it and enjoys it and I do it for him. I'm not submissive, I'm in love. And I've decided theres nothing in the world more important to me than love so I guess it makes all the tears worth it. Again I thank everyone for their input. I appreciate it.



crouchingtigress -> RE: When is it too much? (4/8/2006 1:50:54 PM)

Too bad you are not submissive, the sort of fellow you have there is many a slave's wet-dream....
 
But if you are not wired that way is there anything you can do to make it enjoyable, could you maybe agree to be spanked by this other dominant and also wear and eye mask and  head phones with Mike talking softly and proudly in your ear?
 
His kink is control and voyeurism, what is yours beautiful girl?
 
Is it just possible it is something akin to martyrdom? It seems like your model of a loving relationship has one person suffering for love, there is nothing wrong with this model in fact it is the model of all romantic literature through the ages...and this model for you seems to be so powerful that it is willing to over ride other models ie; vanilla dynamics of equality, being honored, having a say in your life ect.
 
I am a firm believer in understanding what makes us act the way we do, because it shows us what will ultimatly make us happy in the long run. Like you say you can have a billion guys, so why did you pick Mike? .......[;)]



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: When is it too much? (4/8/2006 8:59:35 PM)

Well did have a good reply until I found that she identifies as "vanilla" and not submissive but very much in love..whereas he is Dom/Sadist...so now I am just to thinking something or someone will give and then a bit down the road the inevitable split will happen....I wish you well....Tempting



hislilprincess -> RE: When is it too much? (4/8/2006 9:50:04 PM)

In response to crouchingtigress, no there's nothing I could do to make it enjoyable because I'd still know that it was some other guy using me. This probably isn't something you should post on the internet but I've been with Mike since I was 17 and he's the only guy I've ever had sex with and all and just the idea of some other guy using me freaks me out. And Mike doesn't want a simple spanking. He wants something more intense then that. He had lots of hurt and lots of tears in mind. And it's scary for me and I honestly think he's being an asshole and he should care more then to do that to me. And in my model of a perfect relationship neither person would be suffering.. neither person would ever be hurting or unhappy. But that is an unrealistic model. And lastly, why Mike? Because things weren't always like this. When we first got together we weren't into this. He had an interest always but I didnt even know about it for a good while. Then he got into it and pulled me into it with him. And by that point I was already head over heels in love with him. And I still am. I don't love him for anything that has to do with bdsm. I love him for who he is and how he makes me feel and how he can make me laugh for hours on end and such.. all outside of bdsm. And I would be happier if things went back to how they were pre-bdsm. But they won't; I know that. He's an amazing guy with or without the bdsm and I love him and I can't imagine ever being without him and as hard as it is to stay sometimes I was probably dillusional thinking I'd ever leave.



ScooterTrash -> RE: When is it too much? (4/9/2006 5:50:53 AM)

Pardon me for being so blunt, but if you are not "into" what he is into and he is for all practical purposes making you follow this path, then it is nonconsentual, aka abusive. Relationships are not based on tolerance, they are based on mutual respect and understanding..it sounds as if his tastes, wants and desired have simply went a different direction than yours. Try as you might, in the end....well I think the end result is inevitable. I would suggest it is time for some serious communication between the two of you.



ladychatterley -> RE: When is it too much? (4/9/2006 6:35:28 AM)

I can't imagine what you are going through.  I have, however, had my heart broken a couple of times of my own making, and it was so painful at the time, I thought I could never recover.  I thought I would never find that core that he had nurtured and discovered and I just wanted to curl up in a little ball because I'd never come out the other side of it.  I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the enormity of what you are facing.
But I did come out the other side of it, and I came out of the other side stronger and better able to look aftermyself and to be with someone else.  It will be painful.  You may feel like your heart is tearing in two, and it feels like the grand canyon has torn through your soul.
But, in my opinion, it will have to happen sooner or later.  Mike clearly wants to push your limits; nothing you do will change that.  Will he be happpy having this happen once and then never pushing you again? If you acede to this limit, what will be next? 

It is already too much.  And if you somehow find a way through this, the next challenge will be even harder.  He will break your spirit. You need to look deep inside you, then look in the mirror (because you are stunningly beauitful) and realize that what you want and deserve is most definitely out there!  You will find it, and leaving him will be the hardest thing you will ever do.  You won't know how you can do it, you will feel like your identity is gone, like you've lost the purpose of your life, and that nothing will ever be the same.  But you will survive, and you will be stronger and you will find someone who will love you the way you want.



obis -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 3:31:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hislilprincess
I freaked out and left because I was scared, which was the wrong thing to do


It sounds like the perfect thing to do. Maybe there could have been a nice goodbye thrown in for politeness sake, but if someone knows your limits, pushes you, you say no, and they push you more and more, then it's time to end the relationship and go away. There are millions of lovely men out there who are into the same level of intensity you are.

I know that this is your first intimate realtionship, and because of that there is a feeling that it is uniquiely important, there is a feeling that if you let it go, you'll never recapture the same passion and feeling. I guarantee in a few years, you will look back and still be able to enjoy your memories but also wonder why you didn't seek out someone who fits you better much sooner than you did. You're not 17 anymore and it is time to move on, as painful as it may be. You have friends who love you and plenty of helpful strangers rooting for you here, too [:D]



LaTigresse -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 4:03:02 AM)

Okay,  this is one in which I MUST speak up!! Granted I am pro BDSM and I am not a submissive or slave type woman AT ALL. However, having seen many many women in abusive relationships that will do, say or THINK anything to justify the way some man is treating them because they love him......this is all bullshit!! ANY relationship, wether D's, gay, lesbian or vanilla hetro should be based solidly on the needs and respect of two adults. Now I totally agree that only you can make this decision and do what you need to do BUT good GOD!!! At what point does making this guy happy superceed all else?? If a dominant person, wether male or female is abusing the love and trust they are given knowing that the person truely does not wish have anything to do with the aspects of a D's relationship, then it is simply ABUSE! and he deserves no part of your love and devotion. I am sure many will disagree too bloody bad. This type of relationship like any other should be mutually given and fullfilling not a slow destruction of one to feed the others needs. His is not love it is just stupid base mean greed. He should have the tables turned on him for a change.
LT



crouchingtigress -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 10:59:16 AM)

God, I know where you are, I had the same experience and it was sooooo painful, I fell in love with a man that wanted no less then total slavery and it just was not me, yet I endured for years, because of how much I loved him.
 
Then I started to ask myself why was I the only one sacrificing? If he loved me why couldn't he change for me in the same 360 that I changed for him?
 
Why and how could something like BDSM come in the way of love? It just did not make sense love grows and love compromises in my understanding.
 
Over time I realized he was never going to change, he was always going to want more and always be angry and make me feel guilty for not giving that to him.
 
The non-bdsm times are the happiest of my life, we have a great connection, same humor, same hobbies, same beliefs and just got along like a house on fire....to this day he is my favorite lover...
 
But I finally and with a heavy heart left him, because it was doing more harm then good to myself esteem and because I wanted his happiness and he could never have that with me.
 
If it is not consentual it is abuse I realized, and all the love I had for this man meant nothing if I was willing to be abused by him.
 
(ps. I agree he is being an asshole in some ways, and in others he is just being who he is, and even he does not have much control over that)
 
 
Below is an old parable i have found helpful at many times in my life:
 
 


The Scorpion and the Frog
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."



BBBTBW -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 3:57:54 PM)

there are a billion and one men out there who would treat me exactly how I want to be treated. But I doubt I would ever love any of them the way I love Mike.

The REAL question is.  Can you love YOURSELF as much or MORE than you love Mike?  If so, then love yourself out of harms way.  This can mean emotional and mental harm as well as physical harm. 
 
You said you were never a submissive until you got with this man.  I am going to assume you didn't realize things could go this far so you probably didn't negotiate this level of the relationship.  When you move yourself out of harms way, this can mean getting Mike to sit down and talk to you about his desires and why he wants you to submit to another person for "abuse".  It can also mean distancing yourself from him.  It can also mean finding someone that is respected in the D/s community in your area.  (A PEP group or something of that nature) that is Neutral to both of you to mediate.  I wouldn't say give it up immediately but as a submissive you do have the right to be respected and you do have the right to have guidance from someone that has more experience than and has your best interest at heart.  I hope all that have given you some words of wisdom have helped you in making a very tough decision. 
 
Contrary to what someone said to you about it being "your problem"  its not just your problem.  It is a widespread problem that needs to be addressed and I applaud you for stepping up and sharing with those who care.  These are the kinds of problems that escalate into Front Page News and give the community as a whole a bad name.



obis -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 5:55:34 PM)

quote:

there are a billion and one men out there who would treat me exactly how I want to be treated. But I doubt I would ever love any of them the way I love Mike.


Of course you won't. Every person you love will be different, that's part of the beaty and torture of love -- you will always miss something of a past love, and gain something from a new one. You certainly don't have to follow our advice, though you did come here to ask it. Eventually you'll leave Mike, whether tomorrow or in ten years, and it will be painful no matter when it finally happens. You simply aren't compatible if he NEEDS intense BDSM and you are respulsed by it. What once was a source of pleasure and bonding will continue to be more and more something you dread and try to avoid -- is that what you want your sex life to be for the next 50 years? Something you "put up with"?



lolipop -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 10:18:48 PM)

Wow, I was in an almost identical relationship. I met my boyfriend when I was a lot younger, we dated on and off for 4 years... around the 2nd year he expressed an interest in BDSM, so we dived in. The difference here is that I do acknowledge the fact that I am submissive, it was not just for him. Anyway, the point is, he tried to force me into things I really didn't want to
'explore'. I was madly in love with him, so did everything he asked, though it made me feel miserable. At a point I just had to tell myself: this is not worth it, I can't take it anymore. Although I still miss him, I know that it was the right decision.

This is the little bit of advice I have. You ARE being abused, and I strongly suggest that you sit him down and tell him how this is all making you feel. You do NOT have to do everything he desires of you, whether or not he is your 'Master'. BDSM is consensual. That's all I've got to say. I wish you luck.



SoulfulSadism -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 10:52:44 PM)


- You will always love him if you leave him soon enough
- If you stay with him - you will either stop loving yourself or you will stop loving him
- He is not in love with you and you are in love with him. And it's not gonna change.

- if you HAVE made a decision to do anything that he asks of you ....hell, you are sunk. You have probably become that perfect person - one who will do anything to make the one she loves smile. But maybe, you can bring some self-preservation instinct out and have some hard limit or/and some friends / some safeguards, something ... well, think about it.



amayos -> RE: When is it too much? (4/10/2006 11:19:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hislilprincess

I love my master very much. And I've always done anything and everything he has asked of me. Not because I enjoy it - he is a sadist and I am not a masochist, nor do I think I'd be a sub were I not with him - but because I love him and want to make him happy. Unfortunately, he keeps pushing and pushing and wanting more and more from me. Recently he asked me to allow some other sadist to abuse me for his veiwing pleasure. I freaked out and left because I was scared, which was the wrong thing to do but I had to get away to think. To get me back home he told me he wouldn't make me do it. However, he has been pressing the issue again. I'm just not sure how much is too much to put up with for someone you love. He means the world to me but sometimes it feels like I'm losing myself to make him happy. I just wonder.. should I keep sacrificing as thats the role I've taken on? does he really love me too if he keeps trying to make me do something I'm that against? will anything I do ever be enough for him? will it always be necessary to take a beating or do something I don't want to do to prove I'm worth keeping?
Liz


Liz,

I sympathize with your situation. Unfortunately—and you said it yourself—it seems your submission is relative only to accommodate the male you presently love. I feel you have shown great resolve in your submission. In my mind it would be well that he make a decision as to what is more important: feeding his sadism and damaging his property in the process, or harnessing your love and loyalty correctly.

Ultimately, you both may not be suited for each other. I wish you well.



FangsNfeet -> RE: When is it too much? (4/11/2006 6:28:49 AM)

 Whitney Houston is sill married to Bobby Brown and they seem to be happy. So go ahead and continue to be his rag doll punching bag. Deciding to stay his lil bitch is something none of us really care about. If love and his needs are more important than your well being, happiness, or needs, then keep on loving him and he'll keep on beating you. Relationships such as this can last over sixty years and can be displayed infront of your kids and grand kids. Best of luck keeping him happy with your missery. It sounds like you're starting to like it.



hislilprincess -> RE: When is it too much? (4/11/2006 12:16:01 PM)

lol ok thankyou FangsNfeet for that lovely advice.. always good to see compassionate people around here.. and if you read back.. i already stated i shouldn't have come here for advice cause its not anyone elses problem but mine so you telling me that noone here really cares is a little redundent



caitlyn -> RE: When is it too much? (4/11/2006 1:33:58 PM)

I have no specific relationship advice for you Liz, but do understand exactly what you are going through, and know exactly how complicated it can be.
 
In my own life, the day came where I realized that when I did something I didn't really want to do, because someone else wanted me to do it ... eventually I would make that person pay for it.



mixielicous -> RE: When is it too much? (4/11/2006 4:21:02 PM)

my heart goes out to you, so so so so much.

i ended a [vanilla] relationship last year, after a year of abuse, drug use, misuse, mindfucks and codependance [it was 2.5 yr relationship total]

i loved him SO much, he was my life. i put up with everything, and gave into anything [it goes way past the fact that you are submitting to your master, its the fact that you are trying to become something your not to prove devotion] and i did the same thing. i feel for you my liz, i really really do. you must be so sad, confused, and even feel betrayed.

the truth is that eventually, you will see that you need yourself first [HIM being YOUR first, i am sure does noting but make it harder]

i know, from real life experience, nothing ANYONE here says, will make you see the light.

you know what it took for me? he came home one night real late and sodomized me [and NO not in the sexy rape fantasy way, this was the real thing]

is it going to take something like that for you? will you submit to his voyerism? will you see that look in his eye of you being with another man, the pleasure it brings him? if you are not true submissive, this will NOT bring you the pleasure you seek. you will be even more hurt than before.

but maybe this is what needs to happen?

trust me, the break up is hard [the first ten times] but agter he betrays your heart [and he will my sister, if he willingly lets you submit, and you have made it clear its not your nature] because all he knows is himself.

it wont be hard after the betrayel, it will be enlightening and amazing, i wish you luck.


edit - sorry, in reply to hislilprincess, not caitlin



FangsNfeet -> RE: When is it too much? (4/11/2006 8:53:20 PM)

Incase you  haven't read it, skim through "The Story of O" It's not all that of a book but your fate will be the same as the main character if you are going to continue your actions all in name of love.

So you're his princess eh? If you're the princess I wonder how he treats the whore?



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