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RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 12:26:57 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Ok here is a reality check.

Name the last constitutional amendment has a verifiable voice of the people by referendum and voting records, forwarded to their representatives, conveyed to washington for ratification thereof?

I heard the thumps of everyones jaw hitting the floor with the shocking realization of the reality what I just said.

Here's a reality check, that's not how amendments are ratified! As a matter of fact the Supreme Court has specifically ruled that a referendum is no substitute for the Constitutionally approved methods.


So you admit it does not include the voice of the people.

If you think constitutional amendments aren't enacted by the will of the people you really have no clue about history or politics.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 12:28:39 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ken,  how would you know.  History is written by its victors.

You really don't know how badly you been screwed.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 2:51:03 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If you think constitutional amendments aren't enacted by the will of the people you really have no clue about history or politics.




Well gee ken do explain the last constitutional amendment that you or you grandaddy voted on.   I cant wait!  Well on second thought I wont wait because it aint gonna happen and you talked your ass in another hole you cant get out LMAO




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 2:54:20 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...I decided I want to vote on the Supreme Court nominee.  I want to review all the applicants.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 2:58:23 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		what has that to do with anything?  show me the last president you voted for.  show me the last interstate road improvement you voted on.  show me where these rights are encoded into the United States constitution, or by caselaw or precedent handed down through supreme court rulings.

You are off all the time about the constitution and how things are illegal under it, but you haven't actully read and understood the fucking thing, and this dogshit crap that you got linked is another waste of oxygen.   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 2:59:34 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
now is your chance people!  peaceful return to the "rule of law" and great wealth we once had.


Okay. I'll play...

Article 5 of the Constitution says that "the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments". Unless 33 State Legislatures called for a Convention and I missed it ... these guys have just produced a useless hoax.

What's to excited about?



Ok here.  This will blow you away.  In fact you wont believe it.  Nonetheless its true.

If they want to........they can pass an amendment and no one as in no state would need to ratify it for it to become law under the present form of "so called" government.

Do you have any idea how this could take place?  (and I do mean legally)



Define "they". Who exactly are you referring to as "they" in "they can pass an amendment and no one as in no state would need to ratify it for it to become law"?

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:02:45 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

yes I am fully aware of your position and that you know the constitution intimately.

quote:

We the Government of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. ”



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:03:12 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Lets not mind Ron.   He thinks agenda 21 is a good thing.

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:04:11 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
now is your chance people!  peaceful return to the "rule of law" and great wealth we once had.


Okay. I'll play...

Article 5 of the Constitution says that "the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments". Unless 33 State Legislatures called for a Convention and I missed it ... these guys have just produced a useless hoax.

What's to excited about?



Ok here.  This will blow you away.  In fact you wont believe it.  Nonetheless its true.

If they want to........they can pass an amendment and no one as in no state would need to ratify it for it to become law under the present form of "so called" government.

Do you have any idea how this could take place?  (and I do mean legally)



Define "they". Who exactly are you referring to as "they" in "they can pass an amendment and no one as in no state would need to ratify it for it to become law"?


congress et al.  the "fearless leaders"




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:06:56 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If you think constitutional amendments aren't enacted by the will of the people you really have no clue about history or politics.


Well gee ken do explain the last constitutional amendment that you or you grandaddy voted on.   I cant wait!  Well on second thought I wont wait because it aint gonna happen and you talked your ass in another hole you cant get out LMAO


The process of proposing an Amendment must originate in either the Congress or in the State Legislatures. You cannot just write your own Amendment and ask people to vote on it.

The process of ratifying an Amendment is either by approval of 3/4 of the State Legislatures or by the approval of 3/4 of State Conventions called for the purpose of ratifying an Amendment. The only Amendment ratified by Convention was the 21st (Repeal of Prohibition) so, in theory, my grandfather could have voted for that one but I doubt that he attended any such Convention.



_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:07:57 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		Sure the Government has more guns, but who pays for these guns?

Hello.

You cannot tax the dead.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:14:18 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If you think constitutional amendments aren't enacted by the will of the people you really have no clue about history or politics.


Well gee ken do explain the last constitutional amendment that you or you grandaddy voted on.   I cant wait!  Well on second thought I wont wait because it aint gonna happen and you talked your ass in another hole you cant get out LMAO


The process of proposing an Amendment must originate in either the Congress or in the State Legislatures. You cannot just write your own Amendment and ask people to vote on it.

The process of ratifying an Amendment is either by approval of 3/4 of the State Legislatures or by the approval of 3/4 of State Conventions called for the purpose of ratifying an Amendment. The only Amendment ratified by Convention was the 21st (Repeal of Prohibition) so, in theory, my grandfather could have voted for that one but I doubt that he attended any such Convention.





Thank you!

My point exactly.

For all intents and purposes amendments are made without the people.  Especially in the days before easy information access.







_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:15:32 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Sure the Government has more guns, but who pays for these guns?

Hello.

You cannot tax the dead.




You got a lot to learn!  you sure can tax the dead.  look at that name on you drivers license.  That is a dead man.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:30:10 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Sure the Government has more guns, but who pays for these guns?

Hello.

You cannot tax the dead.




You got a lot to learn!  you sure can tax the dead.  look at that name on you drivers license.  That is a dead man.



I know enough to get me into and out of trouble. :P

And HEY. I'm not dead yet. Please define. DATA. NEED MOAR DAYTA.

----
The point of not being able to tax the dead....
We pay Government so Government can tell us what to do. The very bullet going through the forehead is the one you labored vigorously for.

It is like killing two birds with one bullet.


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:47:31 PM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		RealONE: ...Without the People !!!! WITHOUT THE PEOPLE !!!!! I'll have you know, quite well, that this is the USofA, and people vote here, YES SIR !! This is a FREE COUNTRY where it's citizen vote on...well, vote on STUFF !

When the BAIL OUT bill was passed...did we, the citizens of the USofA have a say...DID WE????, I ask you....er, well forget that one. What about 9-11 Y2K, when the USofA rose up to attack it's agressor... didn't the people have a say, voted, yea or nay.......er....forget that one too. And going back some years what about GATT and NAFTA, did we all, the citizens of the USofA vote on that, I ask you....er,....okay, forget that one too.

Who elects the president, WHO ??? I ask you, do we not get to vote, DO WE ????? what is that electorial College anyway ???? Who enrolls in that college, what is their main thrust on education????

I'll have you know sir, it is the people who voted, and put OBama at the nations head...so he got us into the Iraq war, so the country took an economic nosedive, so the Big Auto giants are backrupt and their pension funds will need to be bailed out to the tune of another 30+ billion dollars......Do we blame OBamabama...no we are to blame, we put him in office and said nothing when he invaded Iraq, put our boys in death's doorway, we are to blame becuse we voted him in. Who said anything when the ballots came up....well...suspect, did Gore, no, did anyone, no....because the people voted.

So, there

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:48:46 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		That concept is too advanced for most people Real.

However, I just got the second notice from the census, I can't wait until the guy shows up. Welcome to Termy's Constitutional Law School (TCLS). That's a catchy one eh ?

The concept of the strawman in law is not going to be proven by a driver's license. I had a buddy who was almost evangelical with this stuff. One day he started up on lawful status and I knew the people in the room were not ready for it. I was thinking "JFC, gimme a chance to make them aware of the Constitution in the first place at least". Not that the Constitution is in effect anyway.

That's right, any battles you may win on that front are basically induced by their reluctance to make this public knowledge. Keep that in mind, anyone who wants to try any of this. For example they don't just give away non-taxpayer status unless you are their buddy. The rest of us can only get it done with an accusation of fraud.

Challenging jurisdiction in other cases is also tricky. They are evolving arguments against that as we speak no doubt. You can't do this with a photographic memory, you must know the subject intimately and be able to think on your feet. My people did this only after years of study. Some of this was conducted in private sessions with well reknowned legal scholars. Nobody works for free and it takes time. The best of the professors who teach this also have a stage when they play Devil's advocate and throw every argument at you they can muster, for the other side. Without that you are not prepared.

All of this antagonizes the court, so you had better win. Mark my words, you better know what the fuck you're doing.

T

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:52:05 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		X,  the Bilderburg group decided who is prez.   they are meeting in June- I want to say Spain.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 3:59:26 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Thank you!

My point exactly.

For all intents and purposes amendments are made without the people.  Especially in the days before easy information access.


So you agree with me that these "Articles of Freedom" cannot amend the Constitution. Okay. So why are you so excited? What have they changed? I can write a manifesto, too. Numerous people have. What's so different this time?

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 5:44:09 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Say, where where you in 2002, because I was watching the "shock and awe" campaign in Iraq.

And your timescale's off regarding the economy crashing and the bank bailout.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand
I'll have you know sir, it is the people who voted, and put OBama at the nations head...so he got us into the Iraq war, so the country took an economic nosedive, so the Big Auto giants are backrupt and their pension funds will need to be bailed out to the tune of another 30+ billion dollars......Do we blame OBamabama...no we are to blame, we put him in office and said nothing when he invaded Iraq, put our boys in death's doorway, we are to blame becuse we voted him in. Who said anything when the ballots came up....well...suspect, did Gore, no, did anyone, no....because the people voted.

So, there

(in reply to xbrand)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: THE PROFOUND PLAN TO SAVE THE CONSTITUTION!! - 4/15/2010 6:27:32 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If you think constitutional amendments aren't enacted by the will of the people you really have no clue about history or politics.




Well gee ken do explain the last constitutional amendment that you or you grandaddy voted on.   I cant wait!  Well on second thought I wont wait because it aint gonna happen and you talked your ass in another hole you cant get out LMAO

The United States is not a direct democracy (the only type of government where the citizens vote on everything). In our Constitutional Republic our elected representatives respond to the will of the people when amendments are desired.

The 17 post Bill of Rights amendments covers a wide gamut of issues but examining when they were propsoed and ratified shows they reflected the will of either the majority or at the least a loud minority. For instance the 26th (granting the vote to those over 18) was ratified in 1971 and showed quite clearly the emerging political power of the baby boom generation. The 24th abnned poll taxes in federal elections in the early 1960's in direct response to the civil rights movement. And so on to the 23rd granting at least limited suffrage to residents of DC to the 22nd restricting the POTUS to 2 terms in response to FDR's long term in office. To the 18th and the 21st dealing with whether morality can be legislated.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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