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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 10:32:25 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

i spent the first 6 yrs of my professional career ( i have a Masters in Family Counseling) working with the children (primary) and the families (secondary) of dysfunctional units.

With the exception of the first 3-6 months of life needed for the bonding process, stay at home parenting is not going to make that much of a difference. It is the quality of parenting, as opposed to the quantity of time, that will ultimately matter most.
The unity of the family, even if the family consists of but one parent and one child, is vital but is not necessitated by a stay at home mother.


I can't agree with you here...forget the sex of the stay at home parent...just having someone with the time to supervise and parent will make a difference. To me it is pretty obvious...if as you say parenting is not important in children then why bother to teach them at all...let their peers...they know everything.

Bottom line a good home with a good stay at home parent will raise a better adjusted child on average then a good home with an absent parent.

First of all...working parents are NOT absent parents, and i resent the hell out of your statement.

Few are the parents who have the luxury of staying at home with the children. Most parents bust their respective asses to ensure that the children are supervised safely and in an environment that encourages socialization as well as education...be it daycare, preschool or grade school.

quote:

if as you say parenting is not important in children then why bother to teach them at all...let their peers...they know everything

Stop misquoting me or putting words in my mouth. When did i say parenting is not important?


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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 11:05:49 AM   
kdsub


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Please don't make this about you…it isn’t. I am expressing an opinion and nothing more. To me it is common sense that the more parenting and supervision a child receives the better off ON AVERAGE he or she will be.

As you said I was not addressing you so stop thinking I am misquoting you.

I have no desire of making this conversation adversarial…I’m sure you are a good parent and raised good children…that you managed despite your circumstance is not the point I am making.

Butch


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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 11:32:19 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Please don't make this about you…it isn’t. I am expressing an opinion and nothing more. To me it is common sense that the more parenting and supervision a child receives the better off ON AVERAGE he or she will be.

As you said I was not addressing you so stop thinking I am misquoting you.


I have no desire of making this conversation adversarial…I’m sure you are a good parent and raised good children…that you managed despite your circumstance is not the point I am making.

Butch

it is not about me and my parenting does not concern you.
quote:

As you said I was not addressing you so stop thinking I am misquoting you.
Really? Here is your quote:
quote:

  if as you say parenting is not important in children then why bother to teach them at all...let their peers...they know everything.
this is in response to me, your post #97. I never said parenting is not important. Please do not quote something i would never say.

It is your statement ...
quote:

Bottom line a good home with a good stay at home parent will raise a better adjusted child on average then a good home with an absent parent.
that i take exception to. I will say it again...working parents are not absent parents.




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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 11:54:09 AM   
slvemike4u


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 IMO parenting and the quality of same is the most important aspect in a child's developement.That said,there is no one way is right, every other is wrong formula to achieving quality parenting.One parent,two parents ,grandparents,aunts and uncles...hell an invested nieghbor with  the time inclination and concern....all and any of these can be the provider/s of good parenting.
Children aren't stupid..they know the difference between mom and/or dad is busting his balls working to provide for us...and mom and/or dad is too damm busy with their own shit to give a fuck.
Children instinctively know when someone is invested in or just going thru the paces with them.IMO a child's behavior is in most cases a stunningly accurate barometer of the level of attention ,concern and love it has received...are there exceptions to this...yes I believe there are in fact "bad" kids...that no amount of parenting or love can reach...I just don't believe there are a whole lot of those cases running around.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 12:00:45 PM   
domiguy


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This is the link


A very interesting read......


Increasing Number Of Parents Opting To Have Children School-Homed
MARCH 29, 2010 | ISSUE 46•13

WASHINGTON—According to a report released Monday by the U.S. Department of Education, an increasing number of American parents are choosing to have their children raised at school rather than at home.

Deputy Education Secretary Anthony W. Miller said that many parents who school-home find U.S. households to be frightening, overwhelming environments for their children, and feel that they are just not conducive to producing well-rounded members of society.

Thousands of mothers and fathers polled in the study also believe that those running American homes cannot be trusted to keep their kids safe.

"Every year more parents are finding that their homes are not equipped to instill the right values in their children," Miller said. "When it comes to important life skills such as proper nutrition, safe sex, and even basic socialization, a growing number of mothers and fathers think it's better to rely on educators to guide and nurture their kids."

"And really, who can blame them?" Miller continued. "American homes have let down our nation's youth time and again in almost every imaginable respect."

According to the report, children raised at home were less likely to receive individual adult attention, and were often subjected to ineffective and wildly inconsistent disciplinary measures. The study also found that many parents expressed concerns that, when at home, their children were being teased and bullied by those older than themselves.

In addition to providing better supervision and overall direction, school-homing has become popular among mothers and fathers who just want to be less involved in the day-to-day lives of their children.

"Parents are finding creative ways to make this increasingly common child-rearing track work," Miller said. "Whether it's over-relying on after-school programs and extracurricular activities, or simply gross neglect,† school-homing is becoming a widely accepted method of bringing children up."

Despite the trend's growing popularity, Miller said that school programs are often jeopardized or terminated because shortsighted individuals vote against tax increases intended to boost educational spending.

"The terrifying reality we're facing is that the worst-equipped people you could possibly imagine may actually be forced to take care of their children," Miller said.

Parents who have decided to school-home their children have echoed many of Miller's concerns. Most said that an alarming number of legal guardians such as themselves lack the most basic common sense required to give children the type of instruction they need during crucial developmental years.

"It's really a matter of who has more experience in dealing with my child," Cincinnati- resident Kevin Dufrense said of his decision to have his 10-year-old son Jake, who suffers from ADHD and dyslexia, school-homed. "These teachers are dealing with upwards of 40 students in their classrooms at a time, so obviously they know a lot more about children than someone like me, who only has one son and doesn't know where he is half the time anyway."

"Simply put, it's not the job of parents to raise these kids," Dufrense added.

Though school-homing has proven to be an ideal solution for millions of uninvolved parents, increasingly overburdened public schools have recently led to a steady upswing in the number of students being prison-homed.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/20/2010 12:02:35 PM >


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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 12:08:38 PM   
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Children are horrible!

Simple Sam

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 12:32:01 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Increasing Number Of Parents Opting To Have Children School-Homed


Have you heard of "unschooling" yet? http://www.unschooling.com/

Just read about it today.

Kim

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 12:45:01 PM   
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Our kids aren't playing enough dodgeball.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 12:50:39 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Our kids aren't playing enough dodgeball.




Sometimes, when I'm getting frustrated, but am still in a humorous mood, I say "It's cuase I didn't beat you; isn't it?

They just stare at me.

Mine like dodgeball!

Kim

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 1:00:33 PM   
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A little beating never hurt anyone! And I liked dodgeball too, but then again, I was good at it, I'm sure that helped my disposition.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 1:07:02 PM   
GoddessImaginos


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{{{DODGEBALL RULEZ!!1!}}}

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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 1:23:46 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level



A little beating never hurt anyone! And I liked dodgeball too, but then again, I was good at it, I'm sure that helped my disposition.


There are definitely appropriate times, in my thinking; reasoning and implementation are everything.

I wasn’t too bad myself… small and fast. Loved being a dodger... go figure. *grins*

Kim


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RE: Raising children? - 4/20/2010 2:40:32 PM   
kdsub


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I never addressed you...you addressed me sirsholly I was talking to tazzygirl...you are making a tempest in a teapot.

If you don’t like what I say then don’t talk to me …problem solved.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/20/2010 2:42:02 PM >


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RE: Raising children? - 4/21/2010 12:55:04 AM   
tazzygirl


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In a perfect world, kd, children would have a parent available to them at all times. This world is far from perfect. Parents are far from perfect. The ones i am addressing are the ones who simply dont give a shit, raised their children to take no shit from anyone (and ended up with a disrespectful mess for a child) or those too eager to be daughter sally's best friend in life. In all three situations, there are no rules, no guildlines, no parenting.

I worked when i was raising mine. Single household, but strong family support. Yep, i was lucky. I also worked hard at rasing him, lots of communication, with both him and the family as to MY expectations for him. And, ya know, my parents didnt do a half bad job raising me, so yes, i listened and took alot of their advice when raising my own. Guess what? he turned out damn well and im one proud momma.

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RE: Raising children? - 4/21/2010 5:10:04 AM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In a perfect world, kd, children would have a parent available to them at all times. This world is far from perfect. Parents are far from perfect. The ones i am addressing are the ones who simply dont give a shit, raised their children to take no shit from anyone (and ended up with a disrespectful mess for a child) or those too eager to be daughter sally's best friend in life. In all three situations, there are no rules, no guildlines, no parenting.



Yeah right, I'm from two parents who fit the example bolded. I can assure you that I'm far from being a 'disrespectful mess' and I certainly wasn't as a child.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I worked when i was raising mine. Single household, but strong family support. Yep, i was lucky. I also worked hard at rasing him, lots of communication, with both him and the family as to MY expectations for him. And, ya know, my parents didnt do a half bad job raising me, so yes, i listened and took alot of their advice when raising my own. Guess what? he turned out damn well and im one proud momma.


Congratulations on your parenting successes. I'm happy for you.


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RE: Raising children? - 4/21/2010 5:29:16 AM   
tazzygirl


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Uh, stella, you read that wrong.

three examples were given...

The ones i am addressing are the ones who simply dont give a shit, raised their children to take no shit from anyone (and ended up with a disrespectful mess for a child) or those too eager to be daughter sally's best friend in life. In all three situations, there are no rules, no guildlines, no parenting.

1) the ones who simply dont give a shit

2) raised their children to take no shit from anyone (and ended up with a disrespectful mess for a child)

3) or those too eager to be daughter sally's best friend in life.

In all three situations, there are no rules, no guildlines, no parenting.





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RE: Raising children? - 4/21/2010 9:58:10 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In a perfect world, kd, children would have a parent available to them at all times. This world is far from perfect. Parents are far from perfect. The ones i am addressing are the ones who simply dont give a shit, raised their children to take no shit from anyone (and ended up with a disrespectful mess for a child) or those too eager to be daughter sally's best friend in life. In all three situations, there are no rules, no guildlines, no parenting.

I worked when i was raising mine. Single household, but strong family support. Yep, i was lucky. I also worked hard at rasing him, lots of communication, with both him and the family as to MY expectations for him. And, ya know, my parents didnt do a half bad job raising me, so yes, i listened and took alot of their advice when raising my own. Guess what? he turned out damn well and im one proud momma.


Tazzygirl

I am not criticizing women or men for that matter in the necessities of life or their parenting skills. I was addressing the way families of the 50’s raised their children compared to today. I thought that was what you were asking.

When a parent was able to stay home they could devote more time and energy to their children. As good a parent as you were you could have been even better if you had the luxury of time to be with them more.

I am not saying your children were not raised well with good values…I am saying many of the problems today are caused by the lack of supervision and just being with a child making it more difficult to form those deep bonds.

The fact that you succeeded is not the point…many parents do not. They are often physically and mentally exhausted and this does not make for a good parent child relationship.

Butch


PS... Now you can see, as with stella, how when talking valid generalities you can run afoul with particular people...as I did...lol

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/21/2010 10:02:28 AM >


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RE: Raising children? - 4/21/2010 2:35:20 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Tazzygirl

I am not criticizing women or men for that matter in the necessities of life or their parenting skills. I was addressing the way families of the 50’s raised their children compared to today. I thought that was what you were asking.

When a parent was able to stay home they could devote more time and energy to their children. As good a parent as you were you could have been even better if you had the luxury of time to be with them more.

I am not saying your children were not raised well with good values…I am saying many of the problems today are caused by the lack of supervision and just being with a child making it more difficult to form those deep bonds.

The fact that you succeeded is not the point…many parents do not. They are often physically and mentally exhausted and this does not make for a good parent child relationship.

Butch


PS... Now you can see, as with stella, how when talking valid generalities you can run afoul with particular people...as I did...lol


I would like to point out that the whole 50's thing is such a small slice of time and a very small section of society.  For almost all of human history both parents did work.  The whole idea of "Leave it to Beaver," was actually an anomaly. 

I will grant that the family home used to also be multi-generational instead of just bi-generational. 


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RE: Raising children? - 4/21/2010 7:00:31 PM   
kdsub


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I'm not sure but I believe the stay at home mother was the norm for all of US history up to the 1960's or so...with the exception of war time. Of course there was much work to do for women at home and it was hard on them but the children worked right alone with them.


Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/21/2010 7:30:22 PM >


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RE: Raising children? - 4/23/2010 5:52:04 AM   
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I don't think that parents not being able to stay at home is the sole cause of societal ills or the root source of problems with children today, it was just one example. Of course there are many things which could be attributed to a child not turning out right. I just think it's wrong to suggest that children are somehow basically and inherently evil and will be so if someone isn't there to straighten them out. That's what I thought tazzygirl was saying.

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