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RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 7:06:07 AM

golfguy

Posts: 23
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

i find the response to the objectification by subs to be to the point and sincere. i as a novice sub see the true domme(not a pro) , as a womanfirst and realize they do not have to be in high heels and boots carrying a whip to be a true domme . her demeanor and control over me would be derived by a willingness to be trained and controlled by her.if i am a true submissive that wants to serve there will be no question as to her role and mine. (wish i could find one of these dommes in my area.we would both be very happy i assure you.

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 21

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 9:47:04 AM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

OMG yes! We're interchangeable, nothing more than life support for a whip/flogger/their latest fantasy. I avoid those "subs" like the plague.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 22

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 10:49:47 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance

How many Dominant Women feel that they have been treated as an object by a submissive?

Most of the submissives I meet seem to care more about the image the title "Domme" conjures up than the real person. Unfortunately this pertains to those I know and love. Does anyone else feel this way or am I just a voice in the wilderness?

Staci

I think it is very common but I wouldn't necessarily call such men submissives - -more bottoms or fetishists.

In my experience, men tend to objectify more if they are exposed to pornography about what a female dom is, especially visual pornography.

Of course pornography is about making money so it could be argued that is what men want -- I think the history of visual images though suggest that its also a highly created market.

I think if someone had the money and the patience they could create more realistic pornography and then some expectations might change.

But isn't all media creating objects, isn't most media about making money, and when you don't get the real person, just the visual and some words what else can you do but objectify?

I think the best way to fight feeling objectified is to not play into the stereotypes you dislike, refuse to be with someone who sees you as an object, and be yourself.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 23

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 1:42:36 PM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

::chuckle:: and that's when it's time to break out the Birkenstocks and the college sweatshirts ;-)

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 24

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 2:59:00 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It just means there are a lot of people who aren't really submissives but are in it for the personal satisfaction

"Objectification" is also a classic response to Dommes pimping for the camera.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/5/2006 3:17:21 PM >

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 25

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 3:31:54 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

It happened to Me ALOT more when I was pro, these days I take my time with each applicant and I have developed evaluation tools and tasks ( I call hell week) that is very effective from separating do-me's and SAM's from the slave-heart and spark boys.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 26

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 4/5/2006 3:36:24 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I've heard this a lot from dommes, so I believe it must be a fairly widespread phenomenon. Dommes often complain that their MALE subs think of them as nothing more than an outlet for their fetishes. Of course, having kinky sex with a domme as it suits you is hardly the same thing as submitting to a domme.

I've faced the same kind of thing with a few femsubs, too, but it doesn't seem to happen nearly as often.

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 27

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/8/2006 6:34:07 PM

golfguy

Posts: 23
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

the more i read and learn in these forums the more i get frustrated because it seems what most dommes desire in a sub i have. i look at a domme not only as my controller but as a human being with needs that must be met.why is it i can not get an interview so i can enter my new world as a serious sub to a domme?

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 28

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/9/2006 2:03:47 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: golfguy

the more i read and learn in these forums the more i get frustrated because it seems what most dommes desire in a sub i have. i look at a domme not only as my controller but as a human being with needs that must be met.why is it i can not get an interview so i can enter my new world as a serious sub to a domme?

Because your profile does not indicate a seriousness. It sounds more like something that is a fun but extra-curricular activity that you will fit into your schedule. You got some serious advice several weeks ago concerning your profile and your approach, golfguy, and I have to note that I see no changes.
This is not meant to chastize, but to remind.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to golfguy)

Post #: 29

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/11/2006 3:17:00 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

greetigs

your so right i find that many submissive see us as a odject not as a person, if i go to soft on my slave he is like down and feeling low if i make sure to curse and belittle him he is a hppy pup this is crazy we are women and person first yes i am a domme i feel this through me all of the time i time like this and i am this but we are seen as a object who is like s trophy wife but instead we are trophy dommes. i believe they must go to one another and ask who is the strictest domme you not alone white and i must say i do love you name it is lovely.

i wonder what all of the other dommes will say white ( can not spell the rest of you name) sorry, you have brought up a very interesting fact thanks so

mons ( nice to meet you )

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 30

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/11/2006 7:23:10 AM

genuineguy33

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/2/2005
Status: offline

As a submissive male myself... i completely understand the frustration that Dommes have with us!!!
Gosh, I know myself that at one time, i would have been one of those unfortunates you are talking about!

I was at one time transfixed with the fetish sites and the stereotype of a whip wielding Dominatrix!
This is what initially drew me into the scene. I must admit that for a while, it was about my needs...
eventually, as i 'evolved', this all changed.

I can't speak for other men, but for me my fantasies were a way for my subconsciouss mind to tell me i was lacking something in my life!
It was only with experience that i realised that i was submissive and that the lifestyle i was living was not the path for me!
Now, D's is about a lifestyle to me... not a way of getting kicks, but a way to express myself in a way that is true to me!

Many men that are drawn to this scene do so out of sheer ignorance. They have all these strange feelings and images floating around in thier heads, not truly knowing what they are all about! for some, getting thier ass whipped once a month will 'stick a plaster' on this void in thier lives... whereas for others more complex 'needs' arise. Many of these men, I am guessing, are happy to live this 'dual' life and will never really face themselves in an open, honest and non-judgemental way. I guess you call these 'players'. The hard part for you Dommes is to try and sort the wheat from the chaff. I'm sure that as you grow, you get to become a better judge of charachter with many of these people!

I know many of these guys can be annoying and frustrating... but please forgive them for they know not what they do!

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 31

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/11/2006 8:04:12 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I'm not surprised this happens all of the time. It just means there are a lot of people who aren't really submissives but are in it for the personal satisfaction they can achieve at the expense of the dominant.

Is it that they aren't submissive or that they are merely extending how we train boy to behave when they become men?

I believe that sadly we still give our messages -- direct and indirect -- that men should want sex all the time but that they must offer something in return for that (money, marriage, committment, submission, flowers, candy, etc). The message really is that women have sex and men want it. Immediately setting up a dynamic that is very business like or combative in some senses.

Even if you try to raise your sons and daughters differently, look around you. Haven't you noticed that the majority of objects for sale are connected in some fashion to women, women's bodies, and women's roles? That car magazine ad with the half-naked woman next to it, the target audience isn't women its men, they see the car (an object) next to a woman what are they supposed to do if not also place her in that object category?

Maybe the idea is that if you have the car this type of woman will be attracted to you. Again this is the idea that you use one object to get something, sex, which becomes like the car something to be owned, bought and sold. Girls who see these ads and are raised in the same culture often believe these things about themselves whether they are trained directly or indirectly.

I don't find such ideas and attitudes attractive and I won't get into a relationship (not even a friendship) would a man or woman with these attitudes. But I'm not surprised by them at all.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 32

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/11/2006 10:10:45 AM

MistrssM

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

I think for many men they have trouble or have no real desire to look past their idea of a "fantasy" Mistress.... for some they don't want to know the women, have a relationship out side of kink... it all about them. You can usually spot these pretty soon....
I think many of them are just immature in there servitude... (and some will never mature)
I actually had someone tell me once that if he saw me wearing jeans and a t-shirt then he would no longer be able to consider me a dominant......because in his head his image of me would be changed.... so I guess all our domme energy lies in the latex, leather, and boots....lol...

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 33

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/11/2006 12:42:13 PM

genuineguy33

Posts: 14
Joined: 11/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistrssM

so I guess all our domme energy lies in the latex, leather, and boots....lol...

I believe for many submissives, initially anyway, yes!
Then from my experience, it is down the skill of the Domme and the willingness of the sub to 'transfer' that fetish into a more realistic form... eventually the mere thought or presence of his Domme (regardless of what mood or what she may be wearing) is all that is needed to re-enforce his submission.

< Message edited by genuineguy33 -- 8/11/2006 12:47:47 PM >

(in reply to MistrssM)

Post #: 34

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/12/2006 1:54:06 PM

WhiteRadiance

Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

wow you ALL have made some wonderful observations! I brought this topic up months ago and forgot all about it. You have given me new things to ponder and a fresh perspective! Thank you all. :)

_____________________________

Staci

The drop of rain makes a hole in a stone not by violence, but by often falling.

(in reply to genuineguy33)

Post #: 35

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/12/2006 4:48:08 PM

MiladyLily

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline

and then there's the 'subs' who don't want to have sex in certain positions, even if you command them to do it, because it makes them feel 'less submissive'.

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 36

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/25/2006 11:17:49 PM

cacodylic

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/6/2005
From: CA
Status: offline

Perhaps if you read a large number of profiles of other self-proclaimed dominant women here, you'd see that all too many of them have managed to objectify themselves, as well as any potential submissive candidates...

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 37

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/25/2006 11:27:57 PM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

The females do it to the male doms as well. I've read more than one profile about some fantasy of "a master is"...........

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 38

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/26/2006 2:42:13 AM

maskedsow

Posts: 137
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

in reverse as a male sub i always make sure to meet in a vanila setting first it is always more fun getting to know the person your going to submit to that way you can have fun in it and fun is very important in bdsm i mean you take it seriously where needed but part of the play for me specially pony and puppy play is importanbt and you couldnt do it without a sense of humour and ive found the best dominanents are those that have a sense of humour and dont take themselvses really sternly and seriously which is what most guys fantisise about

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 39

RE: Objectification by "submissives" - 8/26/2006 8:07:36 AM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cacodylic

Perhaps if you read a large number of profiles of other self-proclaimed dominant women here, you'd see that all too many of them have managed to objectify themselves, as well as any potential submissive candidates...

I am so glad you brought that up. I have seen so many Domina's complain about how they are treated like objects and how they are only being contacted because of some boy's fantasy, but yet take one look at their profiles and I really have to wonder why they are complaining. If you are going to present yourself as "meat for the block" then why bitch when you are treated as such...

And for as much as Domina's complain about being objectified how many turn around and do that to someone else? Pot.....Kettle.... Black....?

Now for those that arent presenting themselves as meat for the market, I can understand that having ther persona of those that do is rather frusterating. It isnt a pleasure to be treated or expected to be or fit into the hollywood Dominatrix persona. I can understand how it happens though and when faced with it I've always just said if you want a hollywood barbie go find one, cause you sure as hell wont get that here.

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to cacodylic)

Post #: 40

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