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respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:25:12 PM   
MstrDave


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		 Respect is earned, not automatic. If you want a submissive to respect you, first prove that you deserve it. The people you see in the community, the people you see at play parties, who command widespread respect? They earned it. And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!!
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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:38:41 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDave

 Respect is earned, not automatic. If you want a submissive to respect you, first prove that you deserve it. The people you see in the community, the people you see at play parties, who command widespread respect? They earned it. And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!!


Slaves, bottoms and submissives of both genders are just as deserving of the potential for respect than one whose orientation is Top, Master etc. That said, I do agree that respect is earned but further feel that courtsey is owed. I do know quite a few people who feel respect is automatically given until the person who has received it has proven they don't deserve it and I'm fine with that choice as well.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:40:40 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I generally agree with what you said here... BUT

We all expect polite well manner interactions of a sort.... SO  what are those?

and when does those well mannered interactions become Respectful

Meaning... how can you determine the difference between the Polite well-mannered interactions from the Respectful behaviors.

Seems to me alot of greys! and not one answer is going to fit every situation.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:40:49 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Personally, Ive got a problem with the respect must be earned thing. I like to respect all people unless they do something significant to warrant not having that respect and even then I would probably respect them in someway, even if its just by understanding they are really just another human being trying to make their way in the world and seeking happiness.

A lot of worldly respect people have isnt deserved, it can come from reputation, position, ability to manipulate people, communication skills, what they have done or accomplished and even croni-ism...and so on...so its very hard for me to separate people out saying this person deserves this respect and that person deserves that respect and this other person doesnt deserve any respect at all.

quote:

And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!!

 
I think this is a different issue entirely.



< Message edited by slavejali -- 4/4/2006 3:46:15 PM >

_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:46:05 PM   
Your Queen


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline 		Absolutely MstrDave, well said.

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:49:09 PM   
wytchywoman


Posts: 510
Joined: 2/27/2006
From: Southeastern Michigan
Status: offline 		I offer respect to everyone unless they prove to me they don't deserve it. Not just in a bdsm setting, but in any social interaction.



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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 3:56:56 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Personally, Ive got a problem with the respect must be earned thing. I like to respect all people unless they do something significant to warrant not having that respect


Ditto!!

quote:

And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!! 


Unless a D/s relationship has been established, or your Dom has told you to submit to another, there is no reason to submit to anyone. The exception i see to this might be at a play party when a sub may submit to a play partner for a particular scene.JMHO.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 4:07:12 PM   
Your Queen


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline 		I think there is a huge difference between affording someone the basic respect of good manners and earning the deeper respect that subs afford their Mistress or Master, which I think is the type of respect that MstrDave was referring to.
In a D/s context cannot expect anyone to respect me enough to exchange power and punish them for breaking my rules, it simply doesn't work that way.

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 4:24:11 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: Your Queen
....and earning the deeper respect that subs afford their Mistress or Master, which I think is the type of respect that MstrDave was referring to.


I see that as more about a level of trust earned. I respect Master sure, and I am really proud to be his slave. He would be unable to dominate me if I didnt respect him as a person...but i "trust" him enough to hand myself over to him, thats the difference to me, its really not about a greater level of respect for him than I would afford anyone else. (hope that made sense).

In short...He earnt my trust...I was respectful always.


_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 4:29:17 PM   
Your Queen


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

hope that made sense


I can't speak for anyone else, but it makes good sense to me :)
I think we're more or less saying the something very similar, using different words.



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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 4:33:04 PM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDave

 Respect is earned, not automatic. If you want a submissive to respect you, first prove that you deserve it. The people you see in the community, the people you see at play parties, who command widespread respect? They earned it. And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!!


I have five words to say as my comment MstrDave.....
BRAVO a Dom gets it!!!!

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:10:46 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

I have five words to say as my comment MstrDave.....
BRAVO a Dom gets it!!!!



DAMN  -  I was this close |-------------------------------------------------| to getting it

and then someone went and got it.... oh well ... I didn't like the prize anyways.... what do I need a Cock-Cage for anyways.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:13:10 PM   
MstrFury


Posts: 77
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline 		with no disrespect intended here...and correct me if I'm wrong...but I see two seperate issues here...

respect.....submission

from my deep dark time period...children were taught almost since birth...
respect your elders
respect your teachers
respect the authority of a policeman
respect the laws
respect others as you would yourself...etc

that's a lot of respecting going on....then as we grow older we begin to seperate good and bad as it applies to our lives...and within every group...give certain levels of respect as it fits or suits us...don't know how many have children..but do you as a parent say...I have to earn my childs respect..or do you just take for granted...as the adult/parent...they should automaticly respect you for your position....

submissivness to me is a entirely different subject with different motives to those who are and those who seek...

the very simple knowledge that one is so...commands my (respect) for without a submissive I wouldn't be able to display my Dominant personality...but then it's just for me anyway...a given for who and what they are to me...do I make demands on any or every submissive that passes through my life...in a word NO...that to me is an utterly stupid concept....a person is a person until through our contact they indicate to me how they wish for me to treat them....although I must admit...I don't hide my personality from anyone...so I'm as clear as newly cleaned glass as to what I'm about....so it's more an acknowledgement of our positions and interaction between each other that guides this with me....

so I get down off the soapbox now....ok...next

Fury

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:13:24 PM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Each of us should indeed be respectful of others regardless of their position in life. The reasons should be obvious and certainly do speak volumes about our personal character and values whether we do, or we don't, exhibit these simple common courtesies. This is in fact a very simple thing each of us can do, but if others are unwilling to do so, we simply can not pry it out of them. Therefore we should just move on, but only after we given someone the benifit of the doubt before doing so, particularly when concerning the written word, which definitely lends itself to being misunderstood.

I do certainly try to not be so quick to judge others, until they actually show me who they truly are; then I darn well better believe them. But respect is and should be universal; trust is earned.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:13:52 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64
I have five words to say as my comment MstrDave.....
BRAVO a Dom gets it!!!!

DAMN  -  I was this close |-------------------------------------------------| to getting it
and then someone went and got it.... oh well ... I didn't like the prize anyways.... what do I need a Cock-Cage for anyways.


Ummm....   my Lord you already have a cock and ball cage.  I won it as a door prize at a SPICE meeting....  I can bring it to you in May to see if it fits???

kyra 

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:14:01 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		What sucks... is when one earns that respects... and abuses it... then loses it... but then again, it's the Doms fault for thinking just becaues he's getting respect, he can do whatever he wants, talk to that someone any way he wants to... <shakes head>

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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:19:59 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Ummm....   my Lord you already have a cock and ball cage.  I won it as a door prize at a SPICE meeting....  I can bring it to you in May to see if it fits???

kyra 


Haven't you been reading the "bratty" thread? you can't be slave if your bratty?  or so I am told!  Funny thing is... I tend not to listen to what others think what a slave should behave like.

Which comes down to the appropriate behaviors in any interaction.  Those being very specific for the relationship.  Some my see a specific behavior is Bratty and Disrepectful and down right unsubmissive, Others might see a specific behavior as Playfully Bratty and see no disrespect.   Others might see just polite behavior occuring another could see Respect and even submission occuring.  The motivations behind a persons behavior is a rather important indicator.  Called it polite --- call it respect.... But really what is the motivations! 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 5:44:50 PM   
TeeGO


Posts: 451
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDave

Respect is earned, not automatic. If you want a submissive to respect you, first prove that you deserve it. The people you see in the community, the people you see at play parties, who command widespread respect? They earned it. And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!!

I agree with you, but have a slightly different way of looking at it. There are different levels and kinds of respect. One can respect a boss for his position and do what he is told as a good worker, but have zero respect for the man because he is lazy, stupid, and incompetent in his position.

All people deserve a basic form of respect, that is required from all of us. This respect is courtesy, politeness, kindness, and limited trust. These can be lost if the said person proves unworthy. But if they prove worthy the level trust increases and when that level is high, those are the people others look up to, they have earned that trust.

As for submission, proudsub said it very well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub
Unless a D/s relationship has been established, or your Dom has told you to submit to another, there is no reason to submit to anyone. The exception i see to this might be at a play party when a sub may submit to a play partner for a particular scene.JMHO.

(in reply to MstrDave)
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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 6:05:04 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
I think the mix-up here lies in the fact that people confuse basic good manners or courtesy with respect.  I can be polite and smile at someone for whom I have absolutely no respect.   
It always come back to the way one presents him/herself. I see an awful lot of argumentativness and hot headed debate that sometimes boils down to plain old shouting matches.  And the excuse is "I am not your submissive, so I don't have to be submissive to you", or "I am Dominant, so you shouldn't argue with me." 
Being courteous while making a point is not being submissive.  Listening with an open mind to another well thought out point of view is not losing Dominance.   It is being reasonable and mature.
Welcome to the boards MstrDave.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 4/4/2006 6:07:40 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: respect from a submissive - 4/4/2006 6:48:12 PM   
alexus


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrDave

 Respect is earned, not automatic. If you want a submissive to respect you, first prove that you deserve it. The people you see in the community, the people you see at play parties, who command widespread respect? They earned it. And by the way, just because someone is a submissive, that does not automatically mean he or she should submit to you. If you don't even know this person's name and have not yet established any kind of relationship whatsoever with this person, assuming you deserve this person's submission is a bit premature......comments!!


The quote highlighted in red, I must disagree with.  There are plenty of Dominants at play parties, functions that demand respect, but that does NOT mean they have earned it.


(in reply to MstrDave)
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