RE: Common Law and rights

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Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 2:50:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Again with the hard currency woo. Before you should even dream about discussing any supposed benefits of a hard currency you should be able to answer how to prevent the known bad effects of a hard currency from occuring again. Specifically how do you prevent speculators whipsawing the value of the currency (see for instance the British Pound in the early 1930's). the only problem with specie is liquidity when you spend to much. the whipsawing is no different today than it ever was except that with specie it forced the value to come back with MM's concept the value of the dollar which was worth a dollar in 1933 is now worth 1.5 cents. So it wipes our your savings and takes a majority chunk of your investments. Great system. Simply wunnerful!

DomKen -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 3:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Again with the hard currency woo. Before you should even dream about discussing any supposed benefits of a hard currency you should be able to answer how to prevent the known bad effects of a hard currency from occuring again. Specifically how do you prevent speculators whipsawing the value of the currency (see for instance the British Pound in the early 1930's). the only problem with specie is liquidity when you spend to much. the whipsawing is no different today than it ever was except that with specie it forced the value to come back with MM's concept the value of the dollar which was worth a dollar in 1933 is now worth 1.5 cents. So it wipes our your savings and takes a majority chunk of your investments. Great system. Simply wunnerful! Then you don't understand what happened in the currency market in the early 1930's. BTW just to be clear inflation had occured with hard currency and even worse long term deflation had occured (see the US dollar 1870 to 1890).

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 3:48:10 PM)
enlighten me then

Politesub53 -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 4:10:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne enlighten me then I dont think thats possible.

DomKen -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 4:37:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne enlighten me then I'm sure you will ignore this but others won't I hope. After the 1929 stock market crash there was enormous deflationary pressure throughout the world economy combined with a preciptous decline in government income. The British government commited to staying on the gold standard, the primary purpose of the Ramsay McDonald led national Government, and in 1931 introduced a hugely reduced budget (all government employees wages were cut 10% and the income tax was raised 2.5%). This made the deflation worse but failed to stem the tide of investors cashing in the GBP for gold. The speculators knew they had devalued the currency more than was called for but as long as they could drive down the actual value of the paper they could pick up gold cheap. The British government had no way to acquire more gold, and therefore could issue no money to spur inflation to counter the deflationary pressure or even to counter the speculator's actions. Eventually the british government decided they could no longer tolerate 10% annual deflation and they abandoned the gold standard. This resulted in a 25% devaluation of the pound against the dollar which encouraged exports which began getting the nation out of the depression.

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 5:13:15 PM)
Interesting How about this? What Caused the Great Depression of 1929?:According to Ben Bernanke, the current Chairman of the Federal Reserve, the stock market crash and the subsequent Depression were actually caused by tight monetary policies that the Federal Reserve instituted at that time. Bernanke highlighted several key Fed mistakes: The Fed began raising the Fed Funds rate in the spring of 1928, and kept raising it through a recession that began in August 1929. This led to the stock market crash in October 1929. When the stock market crashed, investors turned to the currency markets. At that time, dollars were backed by gold held by the U.S. Government. Speculators began selling dollars for gold in September 1931, which caused a run on the dollar. The Fed raised interest rates again to preserve the value of the dollar. This further restricted the availability of money for businesses, causing more bankruptcies. The Fed did not increase the supply of money to combat deflation. As investors withdrew all their dollars from banks, the banks failed, causing more panic. The Fed ignored the banks' plight, thus destroying any remaining consumers’ confidence in banks. Most people withdrew their cash and put it under the mattress, which further decreased the money supply. Bottom line...thanks to the Fed, there was just not enough money in circulation to get the economy going again. Instead of pumping money into the economy, and increasing the money supply, the Fed allowed the money supply to fall 30%. What Ended the Great Depression of 1929?:In 1932, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected President based on his promises to create Federal Government programs to end the Great Depression. Within 100 days the “New Deal” was signed into law. This created 42 new agencies designed to create jobs, allow unionization, and provide unemployment insurance. Many of these programs, such as Social Security, the SEC, and FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) are still here today, helping to safeguard the economy. However, the extent of the Great Depression was so great that government programs alone could not end it. Unemployment remained in the double-digits until 1941, when the U.S. entry into World War II created defense-related jobs. then of course the country was after that point in time official on the public record bankrupt as can be seen by about 3 EO's written by FDR and the end of allodial property ownership in this country. The fed caused it. aka "bankers" the 10% annual deflation is bullshit because if you look at charts of the times they went both ways wherein the average value would oscillate around zero inflation/deflation. Today we still have that same inflation/deflation cycles we always had the only difference that they keep it liquid which could have easily been done with the continuation of specie. Now we have not only the inflation/deflation cycles just like we had before but the value of the money since that point in time 1033 has now decreased to 1.5 cents on a dollar that never would have happened on the specie system. Its ok its only your blood sweat and tears that went into earning it......its only a concept, easy come easier go!

DomKen -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/24/2010 8:36:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Interesting How about this? What Caused the Great Depression of 1929?:According to Ben Bernanke, the current Chairman of the Federal Reserve, the stock market crash and the subsequent Depression were actually caused by tight monetary policies that the Federal Reserve instituted at that time. Bernanke highlighted several key Fed mistakes: The Fed began raising the Fed Funds rate in the spring of 1928, and kept raising it through a recession that began in August 1929. This led to the stock market crash in October 1929. When the stock market crashed, investors turned to the currency markets. At that time, dollars were backed by gold held by the U.S. Government. Speculators began selling dollars for gold in September 1931, which caused a run on the dollar. The Fed raised interest rates again to preserve the value of the dollar. This further restricted the availability of money for businesses, causing more bankruptcies. The Fed did not increase the supply of money to combat deflation. You misunderstand the situation. Because we were on the gold standard the only way to increease the money supply was to acquire a large amount of gold. There simply was no way to do so. Deflation occured because the money supply shrank as speculators swapped hard money for gold. This is what forced first the UK and then the US off the gold standard.

Termyn8or -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 12:52:36 AM)
WOW, a rational argument is evolving here. I'm impressed. I am not going to interject in this phase of it because for one, I believe that salt is more money than gold. But I just wanted to say that the thread is almost becoming interesting, at least for the moment. Kudos. T

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 5:07:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You misunderstand the situation. Because we were on the gold standard the only way to increease the money supply was to acquire a large amount of gold. There simply was no way to do so. Deflation occured because the money supply shrank as speculators swapped hard money for gold. This is what forced first the UK and then the US off the gold standard. Ok so.... Just for shits; The US had this big pile of gold in the US. Fort knox in those days mostly. Where did that gold go? lets start there

Termyn8or -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:07:54 AM)
Real, that one is not fair. Although it is something Ken can't answer it is like hitting below the belt because nobody knows. Whether the bulk of it was remitted to the IMF or whatever is one thing, and where it is now, who the fuck knows. I have heard a couple of stories about this but I don't take any of them as gospel. One has it that if you get a chance to tour Frot Knox, what you are looking at is some bullion, propped up by nicely crafted shelves to make it look like alot more. Another has it that you are looking at gold coated bullion and it is not pure 99.9 fine as it is supposed to be. I don't dismiss either, but do not embrace either theory. And now that there is such thing as paper gold, so really who knows ? I agree totally that this is worng, even if the gov said "We are having it held for us" that is not right, that is their fucking job. But they are rarely accused of doing their job. I am trying to put it into terms you will understand, I'll deal with Ken some other time. But the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if there is any gold at all in Fort Knox. Really. If they can make the ratio change pretty much at will it could be 10:1, 100:1, 1,000:1 or !,000,000,000,000:1. Therefore it is no longer a material factor. Because it can just as easily be 0:0. When normal market forces do not control the value of currency, even if it is gold, it is a fiat currency. Our currency is fiat except for the value placed on it by the members of any given society. They are trying to tell you that gold is real money, but it is not. I am trying to make the same point with Hunky. He is into silver, and that is not a bad thing according to some top analysts, and me. I think that if you can sit on it for a few years you could do well. But that is in a different sense, you will not gain wealth. You will simply lose less. Hunky will probably be forced to sell his silver after the next round of bullshit, which as far as I can see is scheduled for sometime mid to late next year. This will be premature, but according to the plan, they will want it, and they will get it of course. The question now is how much water, propane, food and whatever, including toilet paper even, do you have ? The essentials of life are the real money. Salt used to keep people alive, that is addressed elswhere though so I am not going off on that tangent right now. What is really of value ? Alot of people think pieces of paper are of value. Other people think certain metals are of value. But none of them can sustain you unless someone else thinks they are of value. Are you recieving me ? The last thing I want is money. I do want the things that money can buy, therefore I shall work and go get them, the sellers of what I need to trade for accept this. I will simply get them what they want. Need I say more ? T

DomKen -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 9:45:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You misunderstand the situation. Because we were on the gold standard the only way to increease the money supply was to acquire a large amount of gold. There simply was no way to do so. Deflation occured because the money supply shrank as speculators swapped hard money for gold. This is what forced first the UK and then the US off the gold standard. Ok so.... Just for shits; The US had this big pile of gold in the US. Fort knox in those days mostly. Where did that gold go? lets start there That big pile of gold backed the dollars already in circulation. I thought you understood how the gold standard worked? In short at the time each dollar represented a specific amount of gold physically held by the US government. Every penny minted and every dollar printed required either the destruction of precisely the same amount of old currency or the acquisition of more gold. BTW the gold reserve was not held at Fort Knox until 1937.

jlf1961 -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 4:13:58 PM)
Ken, you forget you are debating real, and he knows EVERYTHING, at least he does in his version of reality which is a figment of his imagination. If real ever woke up in the real world he would have a heart attack.

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 4:55:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You misunderstand the situation. Because we were on the gold standard the only way to increease the money supply was to acquire a large amount of gold. There simply was no way to do so. Deflation occured because the money supply shrank as speculators swapped hard money for gold. This is what forced first the UK and then the US off the gold standard. Ok so.... Just for shits; The US had this big pile of gold in the US. Fort knox in those days mostly. Where did that gold go? lets start there That big pile of gold backed the dollars already in circulation. I thought you understood how the gold standard worked? In short at the time each dollar represented a specific amount of gold physically held by the US government. Every penny minted and every dollar printed required either the destruction of precisely the same amount of old currency or the acquisition of more gold. BTW the gold reserve was not held at Fort Knox until 1937. hmm.... Maybe I wasnt clear enough for you. The question again is: Where did all the gold go?

DomKen -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 7:04:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You misunderstand the situation. Because we were on the gold standard the only way to increease the money supply was to acquire a large amount of gold. There simply was no way to do so. Deflation occured because the money supply shrank as speculators swapped hard money for gold. This is what forced first the UK and then the US off the gold standard. Ok so.... Just for shits; The US had this big pile of gold in the US. Fort knox in those days mostly. Where did that gold go? lets start there That big pile of gold backed the dollars already in circulation. I thought you understood how the gold standard worked? In short at the time each dollar represented a specific amount of gold physically held by the US government. Every penny minted and every dollar printed required either the destruction of precisely the same amount of old currency or the acquisition of more gold. BTW the gold reserve was not held at Fort Knox until 1937. hmm.... Maybe I wasnt clear enough for you. The question again is: Where did all the gold go? What does this question have to do with the subject under discussion? One subject at a time.

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:07:19 PM)
look if you cant answer it fine why all the fucking dancing around all the damn time.

jlf1961 -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:12:34 PM)
Rank↓ Country/Organization↓ Gold(tonnes)↓ Gold's shareof national forex reserves (%) 1 United States United States 8,133.5 68.7% The US Holds more gold in reserves than any other nation on the planet, so what the hell do you mean where did all the gold go?

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:19:46 PM)
holds or owns? :)

jlf1961 -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:20:59 PM)
owns

Real0ne -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:35:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 owns well I was not referring to this moment, we were talking about when we went on the fiat monetary system and ken obviously does not know and its pretty hard to have any kind of reasonable discussion when a major talking point is unknown. In as much as that gold is concerned today it has to be put against the debt. that sounds like what? Maybe 300 billion worth? Sorta weak.

jlf1961 -> RE: Common Law and rights (4/25/2010 8:45:13 PM)
273,184,842,904.16 dollars at current prices.

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