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Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 8:08:21 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		This is disturbing how far reaching this eruption is traveling.

It is a small world and somehow I feel it is also a reflection of much more than meets the eye.

I looked to see if anyone already posted about this and I only got posts within existing threads so I think no one else has writen a thread on this but I am surprised to find that so. Maybe I missed something, and in that case, oops.

I think the local goods movement is going to be in a healthier place this spring and summer and the import industry is going to take a hit.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 8:13:14 PM   
thishereboi


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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 8:16:56 PM   
sweetboundesire


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Status: offline 		yea..big earthquakes all over the globe, i see this volcanic activity in Iceland as being related. Scientists have been saying for years that we are going thru the beginnings of a polar shift. The whole world is changing. Life is gonna be a ride from here on out. Truly the only constant is change.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 9:08:54 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		The whole world is always changing - that's what it does. There's no reason to think it has anything to do with polar shift, because there's no reason to think the polar orientation is shifting any more than it usually does. Volcanoes? Well, every now and then they erupt. That's what they do. This all falls into the category of "shit happens."

I think the number of magnitude 7+ quakes is running somewhat above average for this point in the year, but you can't draw any conclusions from a 4-month sample range. It looks odd in April, but it will almost certainly regress to the mean by the end of the  year. This is just geophysics at work!


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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 9:18:16 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		The number I saw the other day on the USGS site said an annual 18 was the average on 7+, Panda. I think the man-made destruction in Haiti (utter lack of responsible building practices) has us a bit hypersenstized.




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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 9:27:13 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The number I saw the other day on the USGS site said an annual 18 was the average on 7+, Panda. I think the man-made destruction in Haiti (utter lack of responsible building practices) has us a bit hypersenstized.





That sounds right, and I think we've had 6. So as of the beginning of April, we were slightly ahead of the curve, and we'll probably be dead center by the end of the month. It just seems worse because most of them have been very close to populated areas, which is somewhat unusual.

S'all good. As long as the San Andreas doesn't let loose just on the other side of the Temblor Range from you, Rich - that stretch by Wallace Creek on the Carrizo Plain is somewhat overdue, isn't it? By the way, have you ever driven over there and seen that interpretative area? It's pretty damned interesting.


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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 9:29:20 PM   
MstrPBK


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Status: offline 		Not only does geophysics works this way the entire planet does. Planetary changes do not have a schedule or even rhythm.
Readers must remember that Iceland is very likely the most active spot on the planet for volcanic happenings at his time of the geologic record. (and has been for quiet sometime).

In other news: if your compass seem off - don't panic. Earth's Magnetic Pole has been slowly shifting for about the past 100 years and that may take another 10,000 years for that to resettle; again not a over night event. That event has happened at least 6 previous times to the planet.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled dungeon play - this hans NOT been a test of the emergency broadcasting system.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/18/2010 11:02:56 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		So much for "global warming"
This ash cloud will cool things off quite a bit.
And with all the tens of thousands of cancelled flights fuel prices will go down with all that jet fuel backing up in the system.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 5:08:27 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

So much for "global warming"
This ash cloud will cool things off quite a bit.
And with all the tens of thousands of cancelled flights fuel prices will go down with all that jet fuel backing up in the system.


If volcanic and earthquake activity are cyclic and the earth's magnetic pole shifts like a pendulum, where is the credibility in assuming a linear global warming? The Planet will do what the Planet will do, nor all your sons and daughters, nor all your cap and trade will change it. I am reminded of the king (?) who went down to the sea to command the tide to halt. How feeble are we that we are tossed about so easily while Earth laughs. I sound like Sunday morning.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 5:54:28 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

So much for "global warming"
This ash cloud will cool things off quite a bit.
And with all the tens of thousands of cancelled flights fuel prices will go down with all that jet fuel backing up in the system.


If volcanic and earthquake activity are cyclic and the earth's magnetic pole shifts like a pendulum, where is the credibility in assuming a linear global warming? The Planet will do what the Planet will do, nor all your sons and daughters, nor all your cap and trade will change it. I am reminded of the king (?) who went down to the sea to command the tide to halt. How feeble are we that we are tossed about so easily while Earth laughs. I sound like Sunday morning.


Are you suggesting that there is no global repercussions to pollution?  That it doesn't matter what we do, the Planet will be just fine?  If that's the case, let's just disband the EPA altogether.  It costs too much and they aren't really doing anything productive.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 5:55:42 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I am reminded of the king (?) who went down to the sea to command the tide to halt.

King Canute was fed up with all the people in his court that praised him and sucked up to him every day. He asked them: "Do you think that I can stop the tide?" When they assured him that he could he went with them to low tide, had them put down his throne at the edge of the sea and then he sat on it, high and dry, and watched them get their feet wet when the tide came in. Their lesson learned in this shameful way, they were admonished and henceforth spoke to him truthfully instead of lying to him and sucking up to him in an attempt to gain favor.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 7:11:49 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I am reminded of the king (?) who went down to the sea to command the tide to halt.

King Canute was fed up with all the people in his court that praised him and sucked up to him every day. He asked them: "Do you think that I can stop the tide?" When they assured him that he could he went with them to low tide, had them put down his throne at the edge of the sea and then he sat on it, high and dry, and watched them get their feet wet when the tide came in. Their lesson learned in this shameful way, they were admonished and henceforth spoke to him truthfully instead of lying to him and sucking up to him in an attempt to gain favor.


Ah, thank you. Great story. I had forgotten it completely. The moral is excellent. I will just twist it a bit for my own point and remark that even the greatest of human powers are feeble before Momma Nature.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 8:41:58 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I will just twist it a bit for my own point and remark that even the greatest of human powers are feeble before Momma Nature.

Agreed - wonder where this occurrence fits into the 'hockey stick'; more data record shredding and deletion? Time to revisit some history: Impact of Krakatoa Eruptions Lasted Decades - Study

The misplaced egotistic nature of humanity is again put to shame by nature. Damn - imagine the bill the poor Icelandic citizens would have to pay if the carbon tax advocated at the snowed in Stockholm global warming congregation of the faithful had become law! Wonder if Al Gore has any extra 'offset credits' to give them left over from his house or private jet use?



< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/19/2010 8:43:19 AM >

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 8:56:42 AM   
MstrPBK


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Status: offline 		Thanks for the article "Impact of Krakatoa Eruptions Lasted Decades - Study"; very very interesting read.

MstrPBK
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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 9:22:53 AM   
MstrPBK


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Status: offline 		vincentML ".... If volcanic and earthquake activity are cyclic and the earth's magnetic pole shifts like a pendulum, where is the credibility in assuming a linear global warming? The Planet will do what the Planet will do, nor all your sons and daughters, nor all your cap and trade will change it. I am reminded of the king (?) who went down to the sea to command the tide to halt. How feeble are we that we are tossed about so easily while Earth laughs. I sound like Sunday morning. ...."

As far as I know volcanic and earthquake activity are NOT in strict cycles. Though with the balance between volcanic ash and sea temperatures (as mentioned in the article above) there is tantalizing inference for a unseen relationship which geologists have only ... started ... to suspect (last 3 years) - water and it's influence on plate tectonics.

So what does this have to do with a linear global warming. Fair question.! Within the fossilized record of the Earth there is evidence that there have been several heating and cooling cycles of the Earth - most noticeably marked by glacier changes.

As a passing clarification: The Earths Magnetic Pole does not flip ... it shifts. Imagine when you throw a frisbee (the children's toy). You know where your throwing it TOO; but you do not know how it will land. It is kind of the same thing with magnetic shifts.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 11:02:23 AM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Ash eruption

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 11:11:23 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Damn - imagine the bill the poor Icelandic citizens would have to pay if the carbon tax advocated at the snowed in Stockholm global warming congregation of the faithful had become law!


Well, it would be zero, as volcanic ash is not carbon, and doesn't stay in the atmosphere long term, but rather blows along with the wind:

"Small jagged pieces of rocks, minerals, and volcanic glass the size of sand and silt (less than 2 millimeters (1/12 inch) in diameter) erupted by a volcano are called volcanic ash. Very small ash particles can be less than 0.001 millimeters (1/25,000th of an inch) across. Volcanic ash is not the product of combustion, like the soft fluffy material created by burning wood, leaves, or paper. Volcanic ash is hard, does not dissolve in water, is extremely abrasive and mildly corrosive, and conducts electricity when wet.

"Volcanic ash is formed during explosive volcanic eruptions. Explosive eruptions occur when gases dissolved in molten rock (magma) expand and escape violently into the air, and also when water is heated by magma and abruptly flashes into steam. The force of the escaping gas violently shatters solid rocks. Expanding gas also shreds magma and blasts it into the air, where it solidifies into fragments of volcanic rock and glass. Once in the air, wind can blow the the tiny ash particles tens to thousands of kilometers away from the volcano."

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/ash/properties.html

Fragments of rock and glass aren't greenhouse gases. And these aren't even carbon--they're silicates.

Eventually, they fall back to earth.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/19/2010 11:20:54 AM >

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 11:34:19 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I will just twist it a bit for my own point and remark that even the greatest of human powers are feeble before Momma Nature.

Agreed - wonder where this occurrence fits into the 'hockey stick'; more data record shredding and deletion? Time to revisit some history: Impact of Krakatoa Eruptions Lasted Decades - Study

The misplaced egotistic nature of humanity is again put to shame by nature. Damn - imagine the bill the poor Icelandic citizens would have to pay if the carbon tax advocated at the snowed in Stockholm global warming congregation of the faithful had become law! Wonder if Al Gore has any extra 'offset credits' to give them left over from his house or private jet use?


Did you just try and conflate the tiny little icelandic volcano to the krakatoa explosion?

In 1883 krakatoa put 21 km^3 (yes, you read that right 21 cubic kilometers of material) into the atmosphere. Barometers worldwide recorded the pressure wave as it traveled around the Earth for 5 days. Around 2/3 rds of the island sank. The energy released was around 200 megatons (the largest nuclear device ever detonated by man was 50 megatons). The explosion was a 6 on the Volcanic Explosivity Index.

The Icelandic volcano is only noticeable because the ash flow is messing with airline travel in Europe. locally the worst disruption was a blacial meltwater flood that caused the evacuation of 800 people. This rates a 1 on the VEI.

Each number on the VEI indicates a full order of magnitude increase in the amount of material ejected.

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 11:53:23 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Did you just try and conflate the tiny little icelandic volcano to the krakatoa explosion?

No. I only suggested it as a reference to see the impact of nature, versus man, in the case of Krakatoa.

The information coming out of Iceland indicates this eruption will not be climate changing because the ash plume did not reach the height where it would have a global impact. As of now, it hasn't reached the level of the 1991 Mt. Pinatubo eruption let alone Krakatoa.

The carbon comment, on the other hand, was a disingenuous comment regarding the folly of man's influence versus natural occurrences. However, considering the positions provided by academic sources, it may be wise to increase man's carbon footprint to offset the eventual cooling consequences of future Krakatoa type eruptions likely to occur.

Or following a philosophy that man knows and has accounted for all natural variables and can influence the global climate by whim or deliberate effort, at the very least we should allocate a major portion of our economy to preventing future volcanic eruptions, equal to the effort being allocated to preventing global warming. A wise investment "for the children"; right?

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RE: Icelandic Volcano - 4/19/2010 11:59:48 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		While I don't know anybody personally thats been affected by the volcanic activity in Iceland, the whole thing is interesting to me and I've been listening on tv and googling for info.  Merc compared this erruption to Krakatoa, but there is another huge volcano nearby the errupting Iceland volcano (Katla) that can cause greater damage than the one causing damage now. 

"Eyjafjallajokull has blown three times in the past thousand years," Dr McGarvie told The Times, "in 920AD, in 1612 and between 1821 and 1823. Each time it set off Katla." The likelihood of Katla blowing could become clear "in a few weeks or a few months", he said.

Iceland is built on a volcanic rock on the Atlantic's mid-oceanic ridge and it has grown used to eruptions. The southern village of Vik, close to the current eruption, has for centuries had an escape plan in which everybody runs up to the church, which is built on high ground. They know that if Katla erupts flooding will follow.
 
The island's worst eruption in modern times was in 1783, when the Laki volcano blew its top. The lava shot to heights of 1.4 kilometres and more than 120 million tonnes of sulphur dioxide was released into the atmosphere.
 
A quarter of the island's population died in the resulting famine and it transformed the world, creating Britain's notorious "sand summer", casting a toxic cloud over Prague, playing havoc with harvests in France — sometimes seen as a contributory factor in the French Revolution — and changing the climate so dramatically that New Jersey recorded its largest snowfall and Egypt one of its most enduring droughts.
 
A worrisome thought. 
Here's the link:  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7070239.ece

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