RE: Dominant Accountability

RE: Dominant Accountability (Full Version)

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Angeni -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 6:44:53 AM)
Greetings :) I have to agree with LuckyAlbatross here with this comment quote: They expect me to take care of myself and deal with issues directly. Us girls were expected to be responsible adults, and to act accordingly. If WE screwed up, WE accepted the responsibility for it. If Master screwed up, HE accepted the responsibility for it. Just my own humble thoughts though.

RavenMuse -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 6:46:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Again, depends on the relationship. My former owners (and plenty of other masters) would laugh at you if you approached them about an issue with MY behavior. They expect me to take care of myself and deal with issues directly. I agree that accountability is handled differently between dom and sub. But I do not believe that a dom or master has a great deal more responsibility than a sub/slave. As said, no argument, we are talking about diffrent types of relationships. Your relationships are obviously of a diffrent nature that mine, a point you often try to hammer home to others yet you seem unable to grasp when you do it yourself. In MY relationships I have the greater responcibility, in yours the Dom doesn't, fine, but you are compairing apples to oranges!

RavenMuse -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 6:49:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fastlane Me..Me...Me.....it's all about you Raven....LOL Hey, I feel the same way....Me...Me....Me..........too I understand both of the recent points that have been brought up. Although I feel responsible for my slave and accept responsibility, there will be times when I may fall and it is her that lends me her support. An Ambiotic relationship...the smaller fish do things for the bigger fish in order to be sustained by the bigger fish. You and I Raven, are the Big Fishy's. Did you just compair me to a tuna????? [:D][:D] But seriously my friend, I do get what you mean.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 6:55:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: amayos The suggestion of such an idea is absurd to me; they are not in a position to judge, and it is more than a little foolish to allow them to be. It is well enough that a Master be personally accountable to himself. Depends on the relationship that you have with your slave. Many slaves are in the BEST position to judge, and many masters enjoy having their smart/good judgement making slave work with them through that process. The master obviously thinks the slave has good judgement if the slave judged the master to be right for the slave as their master- no reason it couldn't extend into other situations. i have to disagree here. Master sees the big picture; i do not. If i am in the best position to judge what is best for me, then i don't need a Master. As for choosing him as a Master, i didn't really select him. His power spoke to me and drew me to him, thwarting all my attempts to resist. Having said that, this is not to say Master walks on water. There are situations when his predictability is incorrect and the reaction he is going after is way off. i might cry about how wrong he was, but sometimes i think that and then later realize...."Ohhhhh" because i didn't see his ultimate goal. Sometimes i have to go through something excrutiatingly difficult, which might feel "wrong" to me at the time, but is ultimately necessary for my growth. Those times when things do not occur as he has planned, he holds himself accountable by re-evaluating the situation and his decision, studying me and why i did not react as predicted, and, most importantly, turning the event into a growth opportunity for us both. It is not about "Oh, Master was wrong, he must pay the price." It is about, "i feel pretty crappy about what just happened, and i am able to appropriately express my feelings to him about it, and i trust he is going to guide me out of this if i need help." In my relationship with him, i must be able to rely on him at all times and trust his decisions and direction at all times. If he makes misjudgments made along the way, getting hung up about them serves no purpose but to chip away at the foundation i so greatly count on. i can read him well enough to know when he is reassessing. i don't need him apologizing and begging forgiveness. That would be destructive to our relationship. He might occasionally say he misinterpreted a situation, or remind me that he is imperfect, but the focus is always on correcting any situation that has gone awry, and helping me become stronger as a result.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 7:07:29 AM)
Ah, but I wasn't using "more" in a comparative sense, i.e. I am MORE accountable/responsible/etc than My slave. I meant it in the sense that, as a human being, I am accountable for Myself. As a Dominant, I am also accountable for My slave's happiness, health and well-being. That is my "more" that I was referring to :) quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross See I completely disagree. I don't think I have more to be accountable for, more to be responsible for, or more to worry about. I just have DIFFERENT things to be accountable for, responsible for and worry about in some areas.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 7:29:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie If i am in the best position to judge what is best for me, then i don't need a Master. For you perhaps you need a master because you can't judge what's best for you (although that brings up the paradox that you chose your master as being best for you so you obviously feel you can make SOME judgements for yourself). But plenty of other slaves can and do judge perfectly well for themselves and they do not choose a master because they need someone to take over judgements for them. They choose a master because they are oriented that way in relationships. As for choosing him as a Master, i didn't really select him. His power spoke to me and drew me to him, thwarting all my attempts to resist. quote: In my relationship with him, i must be able to rely on him at all times and trust his decisions and direction at all times. If he makes misjudgments made along the way, getting hung up about them serves no purpose but to chip away at the foundation i so greatly count on. i can read him well enough to know when he is reassessing. i don't need him apologizing and begging forgiveness. That would be destructive to our relationship. I agree on the getting hung up and will say that that is NO different than what a sub or slave needs to do as well. As far as apologizing, again, that's your own relationship. Lots of M/s relationships involve the dominant/master apologizing when they realize they have done wrong and it doesn't destroy the relationship. As far as begging forgiveness, I don't see why a master would need to do that, hwoever, I've never suggested that he should. My only points are that masters: a) don't have MORE responsibilities than slaves, simply different ones b) do completely fuck up/get sick/get depressed/make bad judgements occasionally c) can and do often rely on their slaves for feedback and trust their judgement

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 7:31:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn Ah, but I wasn't using "more" in a comparative sense, i.e. I am MORE accountable/responsible/etc than My slave. I meant it in the sense that, as a human being, I am accountable for Myself. As a Dominant, I am also accountable for My slave's happiness, health and well-being. That is my "more" that I was referring to :) If that's how things work in your relationship, that makes sense to me. Your initial statement had a sense of universality to it which I was responding towards. In many M/s relationships, the master does not put him/herself responsible for the slaves happiness, and in fact may let the slave know that part of THEIR responsibilities will be to work towards the masters health and well-being. After all, most slaves love to be pleasing and most masters want a slave to work to please them- that's a big responsibility.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 7:44:51 AM)
~ chuckles ~ You're kind of just repeating me. i said this is what works for me, and your reply is "well that's what works for you." [;)] To clarify something. Of course i have good judgment. Of course he relies on my judgment. But He has the best judgment for me. i am owned by a Master so he can run my life overall, not just my kink. If i know what's best at all times, then he doesn't run my life. This is not to say he does not entrust me to make decisions about my day to day activities, or to make suggestions as to my direction. Often he agrees with those suggestions and allows the request. He has ultimate authority, after all.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:07:23 AM)
True. But it's a kind of circle... by making the Mistress happy, the slave is therefore happy. Let's face it, the slave is getting something out of the relationship, something , that makes him BE a slave, and stay a slave... ergo, makes him happy. Even if it's being beaten or humiliated or made to serve. So in a way, I am accountable for his happiness. That's why, for instance, I'm not looking for a slave who's into S&M. I'm not a sadist, and a slave whose ultimate fulfillment comes from being spanked or flogged (or whatever) is NOT going to be happy in the long-run, and will eventually either begin to act out, or manipulate, or just plain leave. It's also unfortunately my responsibility to spend a LOT of time with talking to those who say they can live without pain, just because they want a Mistress... but who eventually will be unhappy because I'm not providing what they need. Yes, I'm the Mistress and what I say goes. But unless I run into that rare, truly no-limits slave who wants only to be owned no matter what the cost, it's my responsibility to chose a slave who will be fulfilled by being in My service. So, as this circle comes back around, yes, I am also responsible for My slave's happiness. YMMV :) quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross ... the master does not put him/herself responsible for the slaves happiness, and in fact may let the slave know that part of THEIR responsibilities will be to work towards the masters health and well-being. After all, most slaves love to be pleasing and most masters want a slave to work to please them- that's a big responsibility.

pedpuppy -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:12:21 AM)
Very well put Lady Morgan. i could not of expressed my thoughts better than that. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn True. But it's a kind of circle... by making the Mistress happy, the slave is therefore happy. Let's face it, the slave is getting something out of the relationship, something , that makes him BE a slave, and stay a slave... ergo, makes him happy. Even if it's being beaten or humiliated or made to serve. So in a way, I am accountable for his happiness. That's why, for instance, I'm not looking for a slave who's into S&M. I'm not a sadist, and a slave whose ultimate fulfillment comes from being spanked or flogged (or whatever) is NOT going to be happy in the long-run, and will eventually either begin to act out, or manipulate, or just plain leave. It's also unfortunately my responsibility to spend a LOT of time with talking to those who say they can live without pain, just because they want a Mistress... but who eventually will be unhappy because I'm not providing what they need. Yes, I'm the Mistress and what I say goes. But unless I run into that rare, truly no-limits slave who wants only to be owned no matter what the cost, it's my responsibility to chose a slave who will be fulfilled by being in My service. So, as this circle comes back around, yes, I am also responsible for My slave's happiness. YMMV :) quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross ... the master does not put him/herself responsible for the slaves happiness, and in fact may let the slave know that part of THEIR responsibilities will be to work towards the masters health and well-being. After all, most slaves love to be pleasing and most masters want a slave to work to please them- that's a big responsibility.

TNstepsout -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:13:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amayos Accountability is a system in which a person is required or expected to justify his or her actions or decisions. Though I may often be kind enough to do so, it is clearly understood that I need not justify or explain my actions or decisions to my slaves. The suggestion of such an idea is absurd to me; they are not in a position to judge, and it is more than a little foolish to allow them to be. It is well enough that a Master be personally accountable to himself. Thinking like this worries me because it creates an environment that is ripe for abuse. Everyone makes mistakes, and if your sub/slave must accept your behavior/choices/decisions without question or discussion you are not simply being dominant, you are being a dictator. Above and beyond all the trappings of D/s a sub/slave has a responsibility to him/herself to stay safe both physically and emotionally. If that takes questioning and demanding an explanation, then it should be given. If a gross error is made then an apology is in order. I would have a very hard time respecting a person of such fragile ego that he/she could not admit to making a mistake.

truesub4u -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:21:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout quote: ORIGINAL: amayos Accountability is a system in which a person is required or expected to justify his or her actions or decisions. Though I may often be kind enough to do so, it is clearly understood that I need not justify or explain my actions or decisions to my slaves. The suggestion of such an idea is absurd to me; they are not in a position to judge, and it is more than a little foolish to allow them to be. It is well enough that a Master be personally accountable to himself. Thinking like this worries me because it creates an environment that is ripe for abuse. Everyone makes mistakes, and if your sub/slave must accept your behavior/choices/decisions without question or discussion you are not simply being dominant, you are being a dictator. Above and beyond all the trappings of D/s a sub/slave has a responsibility to him/herself to stay safe both physically and emotionally. If that takes questioning and demanding an explanation, then it should be given. If a gross error is made then an apology is in order. I would have a very hard time respecting a person of such fragile ego that he/she could not admit to making a mistake. If they cannot admit to screwing up... they IN MY OPINION... can not expect to correct me when and if I do.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:22:45 AM)
Thank you, pup. Although I have to say, I don't feel like I've expressed it very well! I'm working, and it's hard to focus when I'm trying to whip out a meaningful response in 5 minutes or less <sigh> quote: ORIGINAL: pedpuppy Very well put Lady Morgan. i could not of expressed my thoughts better than that.

apb -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:23:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Varicolored But, what struck me about her post, which described a scene she did publicly with her slave, who, I might add, was supposedly the most cherished thing in her life, described in graphic detail the flow of the whips and whatnot, but, at the end, she didn't discuss how she held her slave to bring her back, or how she tended her in any way. In point of fact, the post explicitly pointed out how she left her alone to go chat with some folks. Ouch! In my role as a sub I cannot imagine anything worse than being ignored and left alone after a scene! I know I would not want to scene with that Dom or Domme again and it may put me off scening for a long, long time. The best part of the scene is being lovingly brought back from sub-space by my Domme.

yourMissTress -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:45:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylkBelieves When a sub or slave falls short of their Dom/Master's expectations it is generally expected that the sub/slave will be held accountable by that Dom/Master by one means or another. Dominants and Masters are humans and subject to human shortcomings. So, how are THEY held accountable? Sylk_believes When someone tells you who they are, believe them, the first time. Maya Angelou As a human being I am responsible for myself and my actions. I am responsible for any action that causes harm to myself and anyone else. I am accountable to myself and my Higher Power, as a human being. If I have made a mistake it's up to me to take responsibility for my actions and whatever steps are necessary or possible to repair the damage done or make an amends. As a Dominant I am responsible for myself and my actions, as well as being responsible for the welfare of those I call Mine. I am responsible for any action that causes harm to myself and anyone else. I am accountable to myself and my Higher Power, as a Dominant. If I have made a mistake it's up to me to take responsibility for my actions and whatever steps are necessary or possible to repair the damage done or make an amends.

BeachMystress -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 8:58:18 AM)
While I feel that each is accountable for their own actions, I personally also assume final responsibility for my sub, since I dictate/guide many of his actions.. I do not want someone else broaching my sub about their behaviour. They can come to me. If I feel it is something I don't approve of in my sub's behaviour, I'll deal with it. My sub answers only to me and explains himself only to me. He is forbidden to follow others orders. I've more than once had someone complain that my boy didn't do what they told him. I do not feel that submissives belong to the world. They are not there for anyone to use. As to who is accountable for me? That would be me. I have no problems with my sub pointing out something that he feels is a problem, but mostly I see my own failings and work to correct them.

BeachMystress -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 9:32:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy *That rant being tossed, can someone kindly explain what a ' scene ' is supposed to be? I assume that it is some role playing thingy, but had rather ask than to remain unilluminated.* A scene is generally a specific time/activity for people to play and enjoy kinky stuff together. Role play is a type of scene, but not the only type. Yeah, that is kind of what I expected it was. I suppose it is a matter of semantics, but I see that as people role playing at being BDSM'ers. I've always referred to them as weekend ass slappers; vanillas that get together on the weekend, swat one another's asses, and then go back to their mundane lives two hours later. Gee, you see people who scene as being "role players?" Wow.. how short sited and (not to be rude) idiotic of you. My husband and I scene at a local Dungeon on the weekends (mostly because the local Dungeons are Pro during the week and not for public use) We go there and he screams at the top of his lungs while I do awfully hideous wonderful things to him. Then we go back to our so called "mundane lives" comprised of his cleaning the house, washing the dishes, pampering me, cooking dinner, sitting at my feet, fetching my drinks, massaging my back and anything else I want or need. We even do quiet scenes at home. I'll pull out the lighter stuff or I'll just use voice and hands to create the scene. Do you call it role play when you use the bathroom? Yet you stop other activities and go to a special room for it (we hope.) Is it role play when you go to bed? Again, you've ceased other activities and devoted yourself to an action. Is it role playing when you play a game of cards? When you read a book? All a scene is, is when you stop other actions and focus in on your partner and playing, rather than living daily life. It can be done at a Dungeon, or in bed, or in the living room or in a car or any place there are two (or more) people. It says nothing of the persons time outside that scene. Your assumption of it as being role play shows that you're not nearly as BDSM savvy as you claim.

acctonthelook -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 9:34:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie i have to disagree here. Master sees the big picture; i do not. If i am in the best position to judge what is best for me, then i don't need a Master. As for choosing him as a Master, i didn't really select him. His power spoke to me and drew me to him, thwarting all my attempts to resist. Having said that, this is not to say Master walks on water. There are situations when his predictability is incorrect and the reaction he is going after is way off. i might cry about how wrong he was, but sometimes i think that and then later realize...."Ohhhhh" because i didn't see his ultimate goal. Sometimes i have to go through something excrutiatingly difficult, which might feel "wrong" to me at the time, but is ultimately necessary for my growth. Those times when things do not occur as he has planned, he holds himself accountable by re-evaluating the situation and his decision, studying me and why i did not react as predicted, and, most importantly, turning the event into a growth opportunity for us both. It is not about "Oh, Master was wrong, he must pay the price." It is about, "i feel pretty crappy about what just happened, and i am able to appropriately express my feelings to him about it, and i trust he is going to guide me out of this if i need help." In my relationship with him, i must be able to rely on him at all times and trust his decisions and direction at all times. If he makes misjudgments made along the way, getting hung up about them serves no purpose but to chip away at the foundation i so greatly count on. i can read him well enough to know when he is reassessing. i don't need him apologizing and begging forgiveness. That would be destructive to our relationship. He might occasionally say he misinterpreted a situation, or remind me that he is imperfect, but the focus is always on correcting any situation that has gone awry, and helping me become stronger as a result. DITTO DITTO DITTO - I strongly agree with every word you wrote! To me that's the basics of the dom/sub relationship. Yes, as a sub I can make a suggestion or comment, but ultimately it is his decision to decide and we follow that together with me in tow and in trust. [&o]

amayos -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 9:53:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie In my relationship with him, i must be able to rely on him at all times and trust his decisions and direction at all times. If he makes misjudgments made along the way, getting hung up about them serves no purpose but to chip away at the foundation i so greatly count on. Eloquently spoken and exact. This is what it means to be a good servant; to be transparent and free of ineffectually dealing with resentment and the poison of ego. During training I will often say in the beginning, "my wrong trumps your right. For it is not about who is right and who is wrong; it is about who is Master and who is slave." This is not to say a slave cannot offer suggestions or use her good judgment to serve her Master's advancement and worldly gain, rather that she does not forget the authority she is under—that she not become an opaque and litigious point keeper, expecting always the scales of justice to balance themselves whenever she feels "wronged".

BitaTruble -> RE: Dominant Accountability (4/5/2006 10:40:03 AM)
quote: For it is not about who is right and who is wrong; it is about who is Master and who is slave." The best single line I've ever read on this or any other forum. Celeste

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