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RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/28/2010 8:10:34 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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Go back and re-read my original...read it in light of every other post of mine in this thread I started(blasting this law)perhaps my derision was too subtle for you....perhaps it was simply too subtle period.But for you to ignore every other post I have made here and in other threads on the immigration subject would seem,from my point of view,that you are simply looking for an argument.
If after looking at my other posts(just in this thread if you like) and you can not see where I was just pointing out possible consequences....and not,as you asserted taking a position....well damm it tommie...I don't have a clue as to how to deal with someone that dense.
It's been a long damm day..I just drove from N.C. to N.Y. I'm not spending much more time on this with you....either you grant me the benifit of the doubt on this...or you don't...I don't give a shit.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 341

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 1:46:27 AM

cadenas

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
Sobriety checkpoints are legal because they are narrowly tailored towards a very specific government interest. Did you know that a police officer isn't even allowed to stick his head in the window during a sobriety checkpoint? Also, notice that they don't ask for papers unless they smell alcohol? They aren't allowed to.
Use the same argument for the "very specific government interest" of enforcement of the a person's ability to be in the country and requiring documents severs the exact same function. Why wouldn't that meet the same legality challenge?

A couple reasons. For one, driving is a privilege, not a right. For another, at a sobriety checkpoint, they still need a reasonable suspicion. If you don't smell like alcohol, and there is no other indication that the driver is intoxicated, they can't even ask for your ID.

Simply walking on a sidewalk does not constitute reasonable suspicion.

quote:

quote:

All it takes is increasing the legal immigration quotas.

Great - I'd support such an initiative as part of better and more comprehensive enforcement.

The thing is that the last time we tried that in 1986, fixing legal immigration fell by the wayside. The amnesty took 20 years to process (the last cases were decided in 2005), and other than that it ended up as an enforcement-only approach. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

quote:

quote:

But it is often not very easy to tell if somebody is a US citizen or not (that's one of the problems with Arizona's new law).
Sure it is; plenty of means especially if integrated at all current government 'gates' such as licensing and various permit applications.

Huh? I thought you were in favor of REDUCING red tape, instead of adding yet more. You can't have it both ways.

And in any case, at one of those roadblocks you propose, a police officer wouldn't have access to any of that. Most US citizens don't carry their birth certificates or naturalization certificates with them. In fact, there is surprising number of US citizens who have NO paper to prove it (there was a Supreme Court case in 2005 regarding voting rights). It happens various ways, such as through natural disasters (Hurricane Katrina comes to mind), poverty (people lose all their stuff during evictions etc.) and various other ways.

That makes it absolutely impossible to reliably determine citizenship.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 342

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 7:46:29 AM

xbrand

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
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Your Mommy takes you to the DMV......???????? Not the JACK, then it must be the Drugs, if not that, then it most positively is the inbreeding.

Please, crawl back under the rock you came from. If you've nothing to add to anyone's post just give it a rest.

LEO...Popeye mentioned it in one of his posts, you stating sometime back you claimed to be some sort of LEO......true or not? Are you?, were you ever? Enquiring minds want to know.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 343

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 8:00:37 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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You disagree with the law but you make excuses for keeping undocumented workers in our country.
I am in favor of increasing the immigration quotas to a realistic number not the approximately 5000 per year we now have.
I am in favor of using the current laws to prosecute those who hire them.
It is a felony and it carries jail time an a serious fine for each violation. If the fucking cops would go after the employers instead of seeking a 30% increase in the number of traffic citations written there could be some real money coming into the states coffers...how much is twelve million times ten k a pop. Of course the upside here is that we will be fining those who actually have money to pay the fine.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 344

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 8:11:38 AM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

Your Mommy takes you to the DMV......???????? Not the JACK, then it must be the Drugs, if not that, then it most positively is the inbreeding

When you first get your lerners permit you are 15 1/2...Typically your parents take you and your birth certificate to the DMV.
Perhaps you were special and drove yourself in your own car to get your learners permit when you were 15 1/2 and you got it just by demanding it....but for the rest of us the former is more common.
Of course character assassination is far easier than actually answering any questions.

Please, crawl back under the rock you came from. If you've nothing to add to anyone's post just give it a rest.

opinions are a lot like assholes ....everyone has one and everyone feels theirs works best for them.

LEO...Popeye mentioned it in one of his posts,

popeye was asked to validate his statement and so far he has not been forthcoming

you stating sometime back you claimed to be some sort of LEO......true or not? Are you?, were you ever? Enquiring minds want to know.

Actually you stated the same thing here Post #: 324 but when asked for validation you also failed to produce any verification for your bullshit post.
Do you just open your mouth to change feet?

(in reply to xbrand)

Post #: 345

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 8:20:14 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, what exactly are the undocumented workers doing in Arizona?
Aren't they like servants and gardeners and whatnot? They aren't running the University, or the Hospital or the Honeywell branch out there are they?

I know what they do in CA and in MN, but not in AZ....maybe there are alot of folks there that are dying to get into the butler business but the goddamn illegals got it sewn up, perhaps we should poll the highschool dropouts there and see how large this nefarious nepotism is affecting old Joe Six Pack.

I agree with huntie. Companies are needing the bust. And even if you transfer your drivers license from say new york to minnesota (not ND or SD there are agreements maybe IA and WI too surroundings states have laws much alike) you are going to need a certified birth certificate, same for state IDs, so I think there are more legal ways of doing this than to be ignorant and pass unconstitutional laws to fight at great cost.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 346

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 8:20:25 AM

xbrand

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline

Hello cadenas,
Just walking down the street......must be some sort of 'probable cause' to be stopped and asked to present ID....especially in Phoenix AZ. Yes, on a number of occassions, I was stopped, approached by two policemen, questioned and had to present ID, which they filled out the info, onto a little blue card they had. Not once but a number of times.

This was years ago, when none of this 'profiling' was even thought of.

I'm white, dressed as norm as could be, jeans, western shirt, or work shirt, no long hair, no baseball cap turned sideways, no guns or CCW's, no beard, nothing that would bring anything suspect to me, just an ordinary guy....yet I was stopped, in mid day, downtown Phoenix, not once, not twice but a number of times, over a period of a couple of years.

AZ cops do what AZ cops do...law or no law. Well that was then, when I was a teenager, what they called back then...'An Emancipated Teenager'.

Now, they have the open-ended Law giving them the authority to stop at will, without due cause, anyone, by stating they are checking for illegal and undocumented people. They can now come into a place of business and ask for employee records, ( who is employed, their citizen and legal status, etc.) Of course the main target will be those of Mexican origins.

AZ politicians state HomeLand Security is not doing enough to safeguard AZ borders, thus the new law is needed.

And...you are correct, most US people do not have a birth certificate readily at hand, to produce on demand. However, if, for some reason, one is needed, all that needs be done is write a request for a copy, to be sent, from your city of the state you were born in, along with the required fees.

(in reply to cadenas)

Post #: 347

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 8:27:46 AM

xbrand

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline

EXCUSE ME.....but does this not belong to another thread? The South Park free speech thread?

And...I'm the no brain??????

As I said, Lay off the JACK; jack, or maybe you had better go in for a brain scan...see if you have one.

Stay on topic, stay on thread.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 348

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 8:42:13 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

EXCUSE ME.....but does this not belong to another thread? The South Park free speech thread?

And...I'm the no brain??????

As I said, Lay off the JACK; jack, or maybe you had better go in for a brain scan...see if you have one.

Stay on topic, stay on thread.

Your topic seems to be personal insults.
Here we are discussing the ariona law that changes the constitution into shit paper.

(in reply to xbrand)

Post #: 349

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 9:25:01 AM

xbrand

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline

EXCUSE ME TWO....you can't even stay on topc, much less on the same thread.

We are discussing the new AZ law, not free speech for South Park...that is on another thread. Go there, post your comments about the revolution there.

I never have insulted you...you are doing a good enough job on your own.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 350

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 9:26:50 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

The thing is that the last time we tried that in 1986, fixing legal immigration fell by the wayside. The amnesty took 20 years to process (the last cases were decided in 2005), and other than that it ended up as an enforcement-only approach. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

I would like to see your proof of this.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to cadenas)

Post #: 351

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 2:33:34 PM

Irishknight

Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

I keep reading the same statement. I have read in here 3 or 4 times that an officer can't ask for your id at a checkpoint unless he has suspicion that you are impaired. Having been all over this country, that doesn't sound correct. I have been through sobriety checkpoints in a dozen or more states and the 1st thing they do is ask for your driver's license. In fact, I recieved a warning ticket for not having my DL on me at a checkpoint that was set up between my house and the store that is only 5 miles away. Had I been an asshat rather than being cooperative and polite, I would have been given a citation that cost money.
In this state, an officer has the authority to ask you for DL, proof of insurance, and registration any time he pulls you over. He needs a valid reason to pull you over but he could just be pulling you over to let you know that your back seat belt is hanging out of the door or that there is an accident ahead or to watch out because Farmer Badfence's cows are out again.
I've been pulled over because a similar vehicle to mine belonged to a local drug dealer. Since I was dating a cop's daughter at the time, they knew immediately that I was not the other guy but they checked my info anyway. Its their standard operating procedure and there is no invasion of privacy or anything illegal or immoral about it.

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Soldiers died for your right to be ungrateful.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 352

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 4:20:48 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

Lawsuits challenge new Arizona immigration law

PHOENIX – Anger mounted Thursday over an Arizona law cracking down on illegal immigration as a police officer filed one of the first lawsuits challenging the law and activists gathered outside an Arizona Diamondbacks game at Wrigley Field in Chicago, chanting "Boycott Arizona."

The lawsuit from 15-year Tucson police veteran Martin Escobar is one of two filed Thursday, less than a week after Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed the law that's sparked fears it will lead to racial profiling despite the governor's vow that officers will be properly trained.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has said the federal government may challenge the law, which requires local and state law enforcement to question people about their immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally, and makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally.

Escobar, an overnight patrol officer in a heavily Latino area of Tucson, argues there's no way for officers to confirm people's immigration status without impeding investigations, and that the new law violates numerous constitutional rights.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 353

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 4:32:44 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Rule, and just which "race" are they afraid is going to be profiled?

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 354

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 9:28:39 PM

xbrand

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline

Minors getting their first Driver's License ?????? Another of your vain attempt to hi-jack this thread....STAY ON TOPIC....... AZ and their New Law.

Popeye mentions that you claimed in one of your previous posts to be some LEO....it's not up to Popeye to verify anything. Is it Your claim, Dude? If Popeye is mistaken, I'm sure he'll admit it. Popeye is pretty up front with his dialogues.

So, are or were you one or not, that's the question being put to you. If you claim Popeye is mistaken, then just say so. It's A no brainer, dude.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 355

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 9:31:57 PM

xbrand

Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline

Okay, Okay, Tommy can slup his own Brand. Oh wait, He doing that ...slurping X-Brand.

Okay Mickey, you can have the bottle all to yourself. Sorry.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 356

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 9:36:13 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

Okay, Okay, Tommy can slup his own Brand. Oh wait, He doing that ...slurping X-Brand.

Okay Mickey, you can have the bottle all to yourself. Sorry.

What more than a few of us are wondering is.....what are you drinking/smoking...or ingesting in some other unspecified manner.
Scale back a bit fella...you are losing it...seriously pal.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to xbrand)

Post #: 357

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 10:03:10 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

Okay, Okay, Tommy can slup his own Brand. Oh wait, He doing that ...slurping X-Brand.

Okay Mickey, you can have the bottle all to yourself. Sorry.

What more than a few of us are wondering is.....what are you drinking/smoking...or ingesting in some other unspecified manner.
Scale back a bit fella...you are losing it...seriously pal.

Mike, how was your drive from N.C. to N.Y.? Heavy traffic?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 358

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 10:11:55 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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Nah,actually it wasn't bad...at this point I have this shit nailed.What time to leave when headin south and what time when heading north.
But I'll tell you this...I've been making this ride for four years now...and I know the two points haven't strectch apart none...the distance is the same.....but it damm sure feels longer.
That damm ride kills me.I need a car up here so I can fly up.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 359

RE: The State Senate in Arizona passes new immigration law - 4/29/2010 10:20:35 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Nah,actually it wasn't bad...at this point I have this shit nailed.What time to leave when headin south and what time when heading north.
But I'll tell you this...I've been making this ride for four years now...and I know the two points haven't strectch apart none...the distance is the same.....but it damm sure feels longer.
That damm ride kills me.I need a car up here so I can fly up.

Mike, yeah, and it doesn't seem to matter what time of the day, night, or morning you go through D.C. it's heavy traffic.
Heading South though once you're past Richmond you're cruisin' man! Nice ride from then on!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 360

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