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Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over parking... - 4/24/2010 6:13:18 PM

stella41b

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quote:

quote:

Man stabbed, bystander shot after argument over DeKalb mall parking space

An argument over a DeKalb County mall parking space left one man stabbed and a female bystander shot.

Police told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that a fight broke out at the Stonecrest Mall in Lithonia late Friday night after one man was upset that another man took his parking space.

The two men started arguing, and one pulled out a knife and stabbed the other, police told AJC.com

The man who was stabbed then pulled out a handgun.

The bullet missed the man who stabbed him, however, and hit a woman who was standing nearby, police told AJC.com

Police said none of the injuries were serious.

IDs of those involved were not immediately made available.

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/man-stabbed-bystander-shot-488811.html?imw=Y

Maybe it's me but I think this is really puddled.

Now I get the concept of visiting a shopping mall with a car. Seems perfectly reasonable.

I can understand someone getting a bit browned off that someone else has nicked their parking spot.

What I don't get is why anyone would want to take a knife with them when they take the car to a shopping mall.

And why would you want to take a gun with you to the shopping mall?

Or maybe I'm the one who's puddled here.

Thoughts? Comments?

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/24/2010 7:40:27 PM

Irishknight

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I often carry a knife with me to the store. It is in my pocket because I use it to cut things at work and occasionally to strip wires. That might explain the knife.
Last time I checked, even with a legitimate concealed carry, you aren't supposed to carry it into shopping malls, banks, and numerous other establishments. Many even have small stickers on their glass doors that state that.
I'm not ruling out you being puddled, but you aren't alone on that.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/24/2010 8:25:10 PM

DarkSteven

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Those two shouldn't be allowed to carry sheets of paper, let alone knives and guns. No control over themselves, and no aim.

Doofuses.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/24/2010 8:38:59 PM

DomImus

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This is Georgia. Many men carry a pocket knife. Many of them look at me like some kind of alien when they ask to borrow mine and I tell them I do not carry one. It's legal to carry a firearm in your vehicle in Georgia (under certain conditions) so you might have it in your vehicle as a matter of course with no intention of taking it into the mall. There are very reasonable explanations why two people might each have a knife and/or a gun at their disposal in a mall parking lot.

I don't get hyped up if someone steals "my" parking spot at the mall. I tend to park out where the shuttle buses run. I generally do not carry my handgun in my vehicle but I do have a concealed carry permit. If I inadvertently "stole someone else's parking space" and they pulled a knife on me and stabbed me I would very likely produce my handgun if I could get to it in order to defend myself.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/24/2010 11:56:51 PM

Termyn8or

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If you think there's anything in that mall worth a human life you're nuts. But to assure safety for those who are not nuts we need alot of armed Citizens. Enough to the point noboby will be stupid enough - really - to bring a knife to a gunfight. Under US law in most states, the stabber should be charged with the shooting. That's right. He was the felon, using a deadly weapon I might add. What's the big difference if it is a big knife or a small gun ? The guy who was stabbed had every right to shoot the MF in this circunstance, and was surely an accident, because if I got stabbed I would want to shoot the stabber, not someone else. It is a tragic accident, but it was the result of the commision of a crime. The shooter committed no crime and should be exonerated totally. He had every right to keep and bear arms, and the recent supreme court ruling commonly referred to as the Castle Law clearly states that. There are only a few places you cannot take your gun. Government buildings, liquor establishments, airports and a few others. The guy did fuck up shooting a bystander, but was probably semi incapacitated at the time and also in fear for his life. This meets all the qualifications for self defense. And after a deadly weapon was used on him, I think his actions were reasonable. Pin it on the real perp.

Why he had a gun ? Well he was at a mall, them places can get pricey, so it is logical to assume that he may have had alot of cash or some high powered credit cards on him. It doesn't matter if it was cash or credit. I was offered a black card and I turned it down. It's like walking around with a $100,000 bill in your wallet. If they got the drop on me they could buy a new car on it and be 2,000 miles away in a couple of days. Even though I might be able to get the charges dropped off the card, that still allowed the perps to profit, which is wrong.

This is an extremely bad situation, but we don't need a new five hundred page law about it. It is very unfortunate, but does not need more government intervention to remedy, especially in light of the fact that they fuck everything up.

T

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 5

RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 2:44:09 AM

stella41b

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

If you think there's anything in that mall worth a human life you're nuts.

What about people?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

But to assure safety for those who are not nuts we need alot of armed Citizens.

So what? You keep giving guns to people and at some point they'll stop shooting each other, yes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Enough to the point noboby will be stupid enough - really - to bring a knife to a gunfight.

Well I'll admit that in a gunfight having only a knife does put you at a slight disadvantage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Under US law in most states, the stabber should be charged with the shooting.

Do what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

That's right.

So if you're in possession of a knife you can be charged with shooting someone? Have I got that right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

He was the felon, using a deadly weapon I might add. What's the big difference if it is a big knife or a small gun ?

Well I'd like to see someone effectively peeling potatoes using a gun. Or someone killing someone 200 yards away with a knife.

I think I'll leave it here. I think I'll go drink some more tea.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 3:41:14 AM

reynardfox

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If it was someone in a blue badge space we needed, I would cheerfully call in an air strike.

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Post #: 7

RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 3:45:05 AM

stella41b

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From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox

If it was someone in a blue badge space we needed, I would cheerfully call in an air strike.

Oh I agree with this. I would gladly see those without a disabled badge clamped or towed away for taking such a space.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 4:33:00 AM

Loki45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight
Last time I checked, even with a legitimate concealed carry, you aren't supposed to carry it into shopping malls, banks, and numerous other establishments. Many even have small stickers on their glass doors that state that.

This is decided by each individual store. Some allow it, don't have the stickers you pointed out. However, most states' law makers have ruled that mall parking lots (along with employer parking lots and even school parking lots do not count as "on the premises" for the purposes of concealed carry. You may not be able to pass through a 'stickered' door with your concealed weapon, but you can sit just outside of it all you like.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 4:35:41 AM

Loki45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Under US law in most states, the stabber should be charged with the shooting.

Do what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

That's right.

So if you're in possession of a knife you can be charged with shooting someone? Have I got that right?

No. What that lil' exchange is trying to relate is that the aggressor in an altercation is legally responsible for whatever transpires as a result of his crime. If he started the lethal force with his knife, and the other guy shot in self-defense....if the other guy shoots and kills an innocent person because he's a poor shot, the guy who pulled the knife gets charged with murder, or at least manslaughter (if the innocent in question would have died) because the death of the innocent person wouldn't have happened (arguably) had he not threatened the shooter's life with his knife.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 4/25/2010 4:36:54 AM >

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 5:17:31 AM

Termyn8or

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"What about people?"

Indeed.

Well let me ask you this because you seem to be anti gun. If you are in the company of a soldier or police officer who is armed do you feel unsafe ? Why not ? Because they are trained to use them properly and only under the right circumstances. Because you trust their psyche evaluation enough to believe tht they have no hidden motives or sexual or other addictions. That the are well blanaced mentally and can be trusted not to misuse the weapon, which I agree is a tool for killing.

Where we differ it seems is in the fact that I believe that some people need to be killed, and we can't count on the cops to do it. As been said, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. What's more you have no idea of the deterrent factor. I don't know if you watched much US TV, one character put it quite well, after a hijack of an aircraft. He said something to the effect that they should just pass out the pistols on the way into the plane.

The way I see it that would work, because nobody would dare try anything, becuse to do so requires an advantage, whether it is boxcutters or bullets. Maybe that might not be the best idea, but then they are against the pilots of a plane being armed. Now that is simply ridiculous. Personally I think every cab and bus or limo driver should be armed. You are trusting this guy with how many lives piloting this plane, but you can't trust him with a gun, which could be an essential component of the security of the craft, which he is responsible for ?

Doesn't sound all that logical to me.

T

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 11

RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 5:24:27 AM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"What about people?"

Indeed.

Well let me ask you this because you seem to be anti gun.

Whilst I don't know Stella's view about pro or anti gun, just bear in mind that there is a huge difference between having guns in the US and in nanny state UK

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 5:32:48 AM

Termyn8or

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"So if you're in possession of a knife you can be charged with shooting someone? Have I got that right?"

YES. In this country if you are the driver of the getaway vehicle involved in the comission of a felony and someone dies as a cause of the felont, you are guilty of manslaughter in the first degree.

In any case if they can prove you were an accomplice during, and sometimes after the fact, if you were involved in the crime in any criminal way, you can actually go down for murder, or at least man 1. I am not so sure about before the fact.

In Ohio here ther is no such thing as an acconplice, Each of the joint perps are equally and severally and independetly guilty of ALL crimes commited during the "operation".

The fact that I know shit like this is the reason I am not a "lifer". I am very careful and have refused many "jobs". But yes, technically at least in this state you can go down for shooting someone with a knife.

T

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 5:40:40 AM

Phoenixpower

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Well over here they "'proudly" do their stop and search procedures at times where they ask people to go through metal detectors and then keep their knifes they might be having with them during that search. Where I am on placement they do it often on the bus stop there (that area is one of the so called hot spots over here) so the UK seem to think you shouldnt have a knife with you in public anyway...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knife-uk-the-rise-of-knife-culture-422661.html

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 5:46:26 AM

cadenas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
So if you're in possession of a knife you can be charged with shooting someone? Have I got that right?

I don't know it, but I believe it. I recall a case a few years ago where police tried to pull over a few burglary suspects. In the process, the police officers broadsided another car and killed an innocent bystander. The police officers were found to be negligent (I think they hadn't even turned on the lights or sirens) - but the burglars were charged with murder for that.

It makes absolutely no sense to be punished for something you have no control over, makes punishment completely arbitrary and unrelated to the act. But that's the way the law is.

Quite honestly, though, in this case unless the actual shooter was also charged with attempted murder, if I was on the jury I'd probably vote to acquit the stabber on simple fairness grounds. Anybody who hits a person with a bullet, even accidentally, should be convicted of attempted premeditated murder - carrying a gun constitutes premeditation.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 5:58:21 AM

Aneirin

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FR

I believe there are a lot of very angry people in the world, who are just simmering on the edge of outright rage, something like a misunderstanding over a parking space, I can see where an angry person might do something very rash, seeing as it is people change when they get behind the wheel of a car.

I used to carry several knives in my car, an axe, a hammer, a shovel and plenty of other things that used incorrectly could be called a weapon, but, it was a motorcaravan ( VW Combi), my daily driver, the only vehicle I had. My sisters carry hammers in their cars, down the side of the seat, on the advice from a policeman, one sister was in her car waiting for her friend who had just dived into the chippy in the depths of the rougher end of Liverpool, and a man jumped in, without thinking she reached for the hammer and whacked him in the forehead, he then got out of the car not quite as fast as he got in. At one time I carried a photographic flash unit in my car, the reason, was along a certain road I had to travel late at night, car jackings had occured. At the time I had a pretty powerful and desireable car, I did experience an attempt to force me off that road by a car, the last thing I saw as I looked and discharged the flash unit was two faces looking at me lit up white as the car was moving closer to the side of my car. They quit their actions and the last I saw of them, they were stopped in the road. I did report it to the police, and I did give a full description including registration.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 6:00:57 AM

SohCahToa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
I don't know it, but I believe it. I recall a case a few years ago where police tried to pull over a few burglary suspects. In the process, the police officers broadsided another car and killed an innocent bystander. The police officers were found to be negligent (I think they hadn't even turned on the lights or sirens) - but the burglars were charged with murder for that.

Those suspects had terrible defence lawyers if they let that happen.

I was jaywalking the other day and this car swerved to avoid me thus hitting an OAP on one of those scooter things, it's jaywalking with a hint of manslaughter! Actually it's the car drivers fault for not allowing for idiots jaywalking, similarly it's the shooters fault for using a weapon he clearly isn't trained for.

This would be my view on the jury if such a case was brought against said gun owner.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 6:02:18 AM

Loki45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SohCahToa
Those suspects had terrible defence lawyers if they let that happen.

I was jaywalking the other day and this car swerved to avoid me thus hitting an OAP on one of those scooter things, it's jaywalking with a hint of manslaughter! Actually it's the car drivers fault for not allowing for idiots jaywalking, similarly it's the shooters fault for using a weapon he clearly isn't trained for.

This would be my view on the jury if such a case was brought against said gun owner.

Nice attempt at being facetious. However, the law only applies in cases of a felony. Jaywalking is not a felony.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 6:04:39 AM

Loki45

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
Quite honestly, though, in this case unless the actual shooter was also charged with attempted murder, if I was on the jury I'd probably vote to acquit the stabber on simple fairness grounds. Anybody who hits a person with a bullet, even accidentally, should be convicted of attempted premeditated murder - carrying a gun constitutes premeditation.

Actually, carrying a gun constitutes self-defense, hence why we have concealed carry laws.

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RE: Man stabbed and bystander shot in argument over par... - 4/25/2010 6:06:37 AM

Termyn8or

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"carrying a gun constitutes premeditation"

I disagree totally.

T

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Post #: 20

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