RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/28/2010 3:36:30 PM)
quote: Thank you LA for your reply. It does take some mental processing to work through how people react. At the heart of it, is the question of will i be able to, given who i am, how submissive i am, stand up for myself if someone comes on too strongly. i think i am getting to realize that i can protect myself, or will be able to after the self-defense classes, which should be good exercise too. You might be submissive and I might be dominant, but we are both still women, both the potential targets (note I didn't say victim) of aggressive sexual advances from heterosexual men. Of course, my no nonsense personality helps me push them back when they get to aggressive, in fact, I sometimes have a little fun with them. But even then, I have to be careful not to get myself in to deep. With aggressive men, sometimes when I push back, they come back twice as strong. What I have learned over the years is that coming back strong in an aggressive way isn't always the best policy. You might be surprised to learn that I most often will act demure and back out graciously. I find it sometimes help to stop situations from escalating. Domination isn't about being aggressive, it's about being in control. Essentially, what I convey is that I am resolved in up holding my principle that I have sex on my terms (which by the way, when you are a single, submissive woman, should be the case). - LA

heartfeltsub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 2:32:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB To my utter amazement, these men didn't think I was ugly at all; in fact, they did everything they could to convince me they felt contrary to that. They told me I was pretty, gorgeous, fabulous... and for the first time in my life, I felt accepted. Because of all this, I still have a very weird relationship with my self-image. I don't believe anybody when they tell me I'm attractive. In fact, it most often makes me feel hostile and distrustful towards them, because OBVIOUSLY they are only saying it because they want something from me. At the same time, I've learned to accept that I am generally considered to be attractive by a lot of people, and I rationally know that if somebody says something to that effect, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to take advantage of me. I also still have a very hard time seeing myself as being attractive. It's sorta like what I once read about anorexia patients: when they stand in front of the mirror, they literally don't see how skinny they are. Well with me, when I stand in front of the mirror, I literally still don't see any curves. I still see a boyish stick figure, too tall, too square, and not feminine at all. I rationally know that isn't true, but I just have a really hard time seeing it. So I hide my own insecurities about my looks as well, but in a totally different way than what's previously been described on this thread. I hide behind being overtly sexual, and slutty, because I've become to expect that that's the only way men will find value in me. At the same time, I feel as if I'm able to be in control by being overtly sexual. If I can MAKE them want me, I can control them. This all has resulted in me often dressing very feminine, and very sexual, and behaving the same way, regardless of the negative consequences that sometimes has on the way people relate to me and perceive me, because I feel that if I purposely choose to make to dress in a certain way and make them feel about me a certain way, I'm really the one in control of the way they perceive me. In the most recent years, I've found more of a balance on the way I perceive myself, and the way I feel comfortable with others perceiving me, but my self-image is still not very accurate, and I still struggle a lot with the attention, or the lack of attention people give to me based on how I look. I still often feel very ugly, and I still often use my sexuality as a weapon, and I still have a hard time dealing with any kind of comment made about my appearance, by anybody. Ishy, Thank you for your reply. i know that i have struggled for years accepting a compliment about my looks, i would immediate mistrust it and wonder what the person wanted. i have trained myself to just say thank you and not try to deflect it (basically calling them a liar) but it has been hard. Whereas you learned to use your sexuality as a weapon, i have just tried to deny that mine exists at all. Until i started to deal with the sexual abuse, i just shut it down completely. After some of the posts in this thread, i have come to realize that the only time i think of myself as a sexual being at all is in the BDSM setting. There i allow myself to be a sexual being, but everywhere else in my life i don't think of myself as sexual, i see myself as intellectual or motherly, or professional, whatever the situation calls for. It was an interesting revelation about how i view myself and i am pondering how much of that i need to adjust. Thank you again for your reply, heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 2:35:52 AM)
LA, Thank you again for your reply. i think i am going to have to work on being able to say no better (grinning). heartfelt

HisEvelyn -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 3:43:49 AM)
Ishy: Your post touched me in a lot of ways as well. I see a lot of myself in your post. A lot of things that coincide with the way I used to be, used to act. Heartfelt, the disorder you are referring to with anorexia patients is Body Dysmorphic Disorder, where they see their body in a distorted way. I'm getting better at saying no to people, too. I used to panic when a guy came onto me, because I always had that thought of "OMG, this guy actually wants me. I shouldn't say no, because no other guy will ever want me, so I don't want to miss out on one of my ONLY CHANCES to get attention!" So often I would go along with it even if I didn't really want to. I'm MUCH better about that now, and I know there will always be people who find me attractive, on my own terms. I'm... a very complicated person a lot of the time. Sigh...

ishyB -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 6:29:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn I always had that thought of "OMG, this guy actually wants me. I shouldn't say no, because no other guy will ever want me, so I don't want to miss out on one of my ONLY CHANCES to get attention!" So often I would go along with it even if I didn't really want to. I'm MUCH better about that now, and I know there will always be people who find me attractive, on my own terms. I was the same way for years. If a guy found me attractive, I almost, felt obligated to sleep with him. Like I owed it to him because he found me attractive or something. At the same time, I often didn't want to, but just found myself unable for some reason to say "no" and stand up for myself. I can't count the times when I felt "trapped" with a man, and basically just let him do whatever he wanted with me, just hoping that it would be over fast. I was the absolute opposite of all the date rape stories you hear of a girl and a guy flirting and finally having sex. The girl changing her mind and telling the guy "no" and him fucking her anyways because he felt that her body language told him "yes" and thus "no" clearly didn't mean "no" in this case (in his opinion.) In my case, I never clearly told the guy "no"... not that I told him "yes" either; I was basically mostly very evasive about the whole thing. But at the same time, my whole body language screamed "NO, I don't want this!" something the guys all happily ignored because I never clearly vocalized my objections. I still to this day have trouble rejecting an offer for sex. Although I've become better at saying "no" to strangers, I still have a hard time turning down people I'm very familiar with, and am absolutely unable to turn my partner down (which, seeing that I identify as a slave in my personal relationship, isn't really a problem at all.) My saving grace these days is that, while I have a hard time turning down a direct offer for sex, I've become very good at absolutely ignoring subtle hints, flirting, or not vocalized cues that offer sex. I can flirt, and play with, and tease a guy and turn down all his advances without much trouble... until he literally tells me something like: "take off your clothes" or "suck my cock" and then, I have a very hard time not simple obeying him... even if he is a stranger (while I'm usually not very submissive towards strangers at all...) So I basically just make sure that I don't put myself in a context where a guy can give me such an order by staying in public settings with him, and that's the way I keep myself from feeling obligated into unwanted sexual encounters. My whole sexuality is really fucked up sometimes... [8\|]

subtee -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 10:20:03 AM)
~FR For those that have written that you've used your sexual attractiveness in a manipulating way, how do you reconcile that with a fear of it, or a fear of the reactions your sexual attractiveness might cause? Is this off topic? [8\|]

AquaticSub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 10:25:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee ~FR For those that have written that you've used your sexual attractiveness in a manipulating way, how do you reconcile that with a fear of it, or a fear of the reactions your sexual attractiveness might cause? Is this off topic? [8\|] While I didn't write about it, I've done it from time to time. I haven't found I need to much in the way of reconciling. This where I'm cynical - half the time people expect me to a dumb, busty chick who doesn't know anything because I look a certain way. Sometimes I can use that to my advantage and get something out of it beyond annoyence. My thinking tends to be: Regardless of it, I do this or not, people are going to do X, Y and Z because of a factor I have no control over. Might as well employ to my advantage from time to time. Now that said... I'm very particular about when I do it because I don't want to overdo it, rely on it or hurt anybody. So I really don't take free drinks to lead someone on. If someone wants to buy me a drink, I let them know before they pay if I just think of them as a friend. Now, if they then continue to buy me the drink after I've made it clear that I'm not sleeping with them because they think I might change my mind... that's their problem.

beltainefaerie -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 10:55:06 AM)
I had several inappropriate things happen to me as a child. I was always really sexual and I wanted the inappropriate attention as much as it scared me, which also makes things interesting to process/deal with. I have been "normal" weight and overweight. I have tried to hide in oversized clothes and I have dressed like a slut, no matter where I was in my weight gain/loss. I put on weight as a combination of finding comfort in food (and actually loving to eat) and creating a kind of cushioned "armor" against myself and the world. I have always known that I loved sex and could be a tremendous slut if I let that part out. Being fat helped me control that. I also knew that I wanted whoever was with me to love me more for me than my body and at whatever size I am. I have found people like that. Now I am in a more stable place, have been married for almost a decade and am able to be an ethical and appropriate slut, so my "armor" is less important to my self-preservation. I have been losing weight and it is still scary. I get more attention and compliments than I know how to deal with and I am confused by praise. I guess the most important part is that my partners are supportive of my emotional needs and of the weight loss. It is helpful to me to know that other people went through this or are dealing with similar issues. I also know that if I don't deal with the issues that made me gain weight/hide, I will just gain it back again.

ishyB -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 11:38:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee For those that have written that you've used your sexual attractiveness in a manipulating way, how do you reconcile that with a fear of it, or a fear of the reactions your sexual attractiveness might cause? I don't really reconcile it at all, which is why I still consider my sexuality to be fucked up... I feel distinctly uneasy when people give me a compliment, but at the same time, I always tend to try to push past that feeling of discomfort and try to direct the situation in such a way that I am the one who gains from the situation. Because that's how I still feel when somebody compliments me: like they are trying to get the upper hand in the situation; like the only reason imaginable why they would pay me a compliment is because they are trying to get something from the situation; like them paying me a compliment is somehow them trying to open the battlefield, and then the whole thing turn a game of who wins. And seeing that I don't want to be the one that looses, I try to turn the tables to my advantage so that I come out on top. That doesn't mean that I still don't feel uncomfortable or shy about the whole thing though, it's just that I push past my shyness and put up a shield of confidence to try to gain from the situation. I don't really feel confident in those situations though, it's more a "fake it till you make it" kind of feeling.

subtee -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 1:08:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB I don't really reconcile it at all, which is why I still consider my sexuality to be fucked up... [snip] That doesn't mean that I still don't feel uncomfortable or shy about the whole thing though, it's just that I push past my shyness and put up a shield of confidence to try to gain from the situation. I don't really feel confident in those situations though, it's more a "fake it till you make it" kind of feeling. Maybe that's not fucked up at all? It seems it would be effective ...

ishyB -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 1:17:14 PM)
It would depend on what you consider to be "fucked up" then... but I've always assumed that an excessive feeling of embarrassment and guilt about your own sexuality and appearance isn’t the textbook definition of a "normal and healthy" self-image...

subtee -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 1:22:44 PM)
I have no idea what the textbook might say about normal, healthy self image. I was thinking in terms of the OP's and other's fears and wondering if there could be a garnering of some aspect of power in imagery and then "fake it till you make it," as you suggested.

ishyB -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 2:16:00 PM)
I don't disagree that "fake it till you make it" sometimes has its advantages when overcoming shyness. However, in this case, I'm not sure if going from one faulty way of dealing with compliments to another faulty way of dealing with compliments is really the right answer. The fact is that more times than not, being given a compliment, or being found attractive doesn't HAVE to turn into the battlefield that I always project it to be. Sure, there are times when a man will compliment you in an attempt to gain something, but more often than not, when people compliment you in general, that's not really what's on their minds. I might perceive certain intent in compliments because of my history, but that doesn't mean that the person giving the compliment always has that same intent in mind. The problem becomes then that because I turn it into a game of who wins and who loses, the game I perceived there to be becomes a reality, even if that didn't have to happen or wasn't the intent of the other person. So my own complexes turn something that doesn't have to be negative into something negative, EVEN if I win the game... Hardly something you'd want to work towards as a method of overcoming certain other problems you might have. So when people who have trouble with their self-image would use the "faking it till you make it" method to learn to deal with those issues, they have to be careful not to take it too far to make sure the pendulum doesn't swing in the opposite direction...

jbcurious -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 4:35:27 PM)
HFS... Part of your discomfort in being sexually attractive seems to come from a fear of being abused again. The fact is that a womsn who is "confidently sexually attractive" is rarely a victim of abuse or rape, when it does happen it's more about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The lowlife dirtbag scum of the earth that do need to take something violently are looking for those that show insecurity, or a victim attitude. Your discomfort and insecurity in being sexually attractive is much more likely to bring about the things you fear then embracing your sexuality and finding power in it ever will.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 5:20:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn Ishy: Your post touched me in a lot of ways as well. I see a lot of myself in your post. A lot of things that coincide with the way I used to be, used to act. Heartfelt, the disorder you are referring to with anorexia patients is Body Dysmorphic Disorder, where they see their body in a distorted way. I'm getting better at saying no to people, too. I used to panic when a guy came onto me, because I always had that thought of "OMG, this guy actually wants me. I shouldn't say no, because no other guy will ever want me, so I don't want to miss out on one of my ONLY CHANCES to get attention!" So often I would go along with it even if I didn't really want to. I'm MUCH better about that now, and I know there will always be people who find me attractive, on my own terms. I'm... a very complicated person a lot of the time. Sigh... Evelyn, i don't think complicated is necessarily bad, it is what makes us unique. my inability to say no tends to me in the face of dominance, my knees tend to bend. But i was able to do it with the Sadist that i used to play with when it was REALLLLY clear how hot he was finding me. So maybe i am getting better. Thank you for your reply, heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 5:25:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB My saving grace these days is that, while I have a hard time turning down a direct offer for sex, I've become very good at absolutely ignoring subtle hints, flirting, or not vocalized cues that offer sex. I can flirt, and play with, and tease a guy and turn down all his advances without much trouble... until he literally tells me something like: "take off your clothes" or "suck my cock" and then, I have a very hard time not simple obeying him... even if he is a stranger (while I'm usually not very submissive towards strangers at all...) So I basically just make sure that I don't put myself in a context where a guy can give me such an order by staying in public settings with him, and that's the way I keep myself from feeling obligated into unwanted sexual encounters. That sounds like something that i will need to work on. Thank you Ishy for your reply.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 5:26:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbcurious HFS... Part of your discomfort in being sexually attractive seems to come from a fear of being abused again. The fact is that a womsn who is "confidently sexually attractive" is rarely a victim of abuse or rape, when it does happen it's more about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The lowlife dirtbag scum of the earth that do need to take something violently are looking for those that show insecurity, or a victim attitude. Your discomfort and insecurity in being sexually attractive is much more likely to bring about the things you fear then embracing your sexuality and finding power in it ever will. Thank you jb, that gives me something to think about.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 5:29:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beltainefaerie I had several inappropriate things happen to me as a child. I was always really sexual and I wanted the inappropriate attention as much as it scared me, which also makes things interesting to process/deal with. I have been "normal" weight and overweight. I have tried to hide in oversized clothes and I have dressed like a slut, no matter where I was in my weight gain/loss. I put on weight as a combination of finding comfort in food (and actually loving to eat) and creating a kind of cushioned "armor" against myself and the world. I have always known that I loved sex and could be a tremendous slut if I let that part out. Being fat helped me control that. I also knew that I wanted whoever was with me to love me more for me than my body and at whatever size I am. I have found people like that. Now I am in a more stable place, have been married for almost a decade and am able to be an ethical and appropriate slut, so my "armor" is less important to my self-preservation. I have been losing weight and it is still scary. I get more attention and compliments than I know how to deal with and I am confused by praise. I guess the most important part is that my partners are supportive of my emotional needs and of the weight loss. It is helpful to me to know that other people went through this or are dealing with similar issues. I also know that if I don't deal with the issues that made me gain weight/hide, I will just gain it back again. i can so understand that. i have to fight not to deflect any compliments that i get that have anything to do with how i look. i also agree with you, it does help to know that others deal with the same thing. Thank you so much for your reply Beltainefaerie, heartfelt

HisEvelyn -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/29/2010 10:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB quote: ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn I always had that thought of "OMG, this guy actually wants me. I shouldn't say no, because no other guy will ever want me, so I don't want to miss out on one of my ONLY CHANCES to get attention!" So often I would go along with it even if I didn't really want to. I'm MUCH better about that now, and I know there will always be people who find me attractive, on my own terms. I was the same way for years. If a guy found me attractive, I almost, felt obligated to sleep with him. Like I owed it to him because he found me attractive or something. At the same time, I often didn't want to, but just found myself unable for some reason to say "no" and stand up for myself. I can't count the times when I felt "trapped" with a man, and basically just let him do whatever he wanted with me, just hoping that it would be over fast. I was the absolute opposite of all the date rape stories you hear of a girl and a guy flirting and finally having sex. The girl changing her mind and telling the guy "no" and him fucking her anyways because he felt that her body language told him "yes" and thus "no" clearly didn't mean "no" in this case (in his opinion.) In my case, I never clearly told the guy "no"... not that I told him "yes" either; I was basically mostly very evasive about the whole thing. But at the same time, my whole body language screamed "NO, I don't want this!" something the guys all happily ignored because I never clearly vocalized my objections. I still to this day have trouble rejecting an offer for sex. Although I've become better at saying "no" to strangers, I still have a hard time turning down people I'm very familiar with, and am absolutely unable to turn my partner down (which, seeing that I identify as a slave in my personal relationship, isn't really a problem at all.) My saving grace these days is that, while I have a hard time turning down a direct offer for sex, I've become very good at absolutely ignoring subtle hints, flirting, or not vocalized cues that offer sex. I can flirt, and play with, and tease a guy and turn down all his advances without much trouble... until he literally tells me something like: "take off your clothes" or "suck my cock" and then, I have a very hard time not simple obeying him... even if he is a stranger (while I'm usually not very submissive towards strangers at all...) So I basically just make sure that I don't put myself in a context where a guy can give me such an order by staying in public settings with him, and that's the way I keep myself from feeling obligated into unwanted sexual encounters. My whole sexuality is really fucked up sometimes... [8\|] You just described all of my early twenties. I bolded the part that fits. Soooo many times this happened to me. It was ridiculously degrading and traumatizing, but I honestly didn't feel I deserved any better. I am so glad that you have gotten better, as I wouldn't wish that sort of trauma on my worst enemy. Be strong, and you ARE worth more. We both are.

Aynne88 -> RE: Dealing with being Sexually Attractive (4/30/2010 8:08:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee ~FR For those that have written that you've used your sexual attractiveness in a manipulating way, how do you reconcile that with a fear of it, or a fear of the reactions your sexual attractiveness might cause? Is this off topic? [8\|] I did write about using it in a manipulative way Tee, but I don't have a fear of it or any repercussions. I honestly think that it is only fair sometimes in the world of men having what I perceived to be more "power" in business so I used it manipulatively to my advantage. No worse than they do I think. This seems to me to be odd, if you have the attributes to be above the norm, be it wealthy, or intelligent, no one questions that or feels badly about that kind of power, why do women get weird about beauty? I have a hard time following why someone would have the issue with being beautiful and not wanting it. It's like celebrities complaining about fame...or lottery winners bitching about the money and the new found wealth. I'll deal with it just fine. ;)

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