Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:28:01 PM)

Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Netthe only concrete deficit-reducing proposal that they all agree on involves cutting Social Security payouts, in part by raising the retirement age/snip





brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:37:16 PM)

Entitlements such as Social Security should be on the table. Everyone will have to sacrifice to get us out of this debt shithole, but I question the credibility of anyone who takes a partisan stance on this issue. Cuts to defense, reduction or elimination of wasteful govt programs, and increased taxes all need to be considered as part of the solution.

<edited to add: Consider the source. The Huff Post is not exactly unbiased in its approach.>




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:41:21 PM)

Oh really?


Hmm.




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:44:21 PM)

After trillions have been spent on wars and banks- the retired should take a hit?


I disagree.




shannie -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:46:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Netthe only concrete deficit-reducing proposal that they all agree on involves cutting Social Security payouts, in part by raising the retirement age/snip



Well, so far.  But I'm sure they'll think of more ways to lay this all on the backs of the working class.




brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:47:22 PM)

Why must these two options be mutually exclusive? Why can't we stop the war machine AND cut entitlements, especially for the wealthiest Americans? If we are serious about debt reduction, we may not have a choice.




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:49:04 PM)

Unfortunately we may not have a  choice.  




brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:50:45 PM)

Thanks for the quote of confidence [;)]




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:54:47 PM)

The time to get serious was 9-10-01.   When 2.3 trillion was "missing" from the mil.  Since then there has been hyper wreckless spending on wars and banks.




subfever -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 1:58:57 PM)

quote:

Entitlements such as Social Security should be on the table. Everyone will have to sacrifice to get us out of this debt shithole, but I question the credibility of anyone who takes a partisan stance on this issue. Cuts to defense, reduction or elimination of wasteful govt programs, and increased taxes all need to be considered as part of the solution.


Partisan conflict only maintains the current structure.

Eliminating the monetary system, and the cyclical consumption and greed it supports, would solve all problems related to money. 

It's time to start thinking outside the box. 




rulemylife -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:05:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Entitlements such as Social Security should be on the table. Everyone will have to sacrifice to get us out of this debt shithole, but I question the credibility of anyone who takes a partisan stance on this issue. Cuts to defense, reduction or elimination of wasteful govt programs, and increased taxes all need to be considered as part of the solution.

<edited to add: Consider the source. The Huff Post is not exactly unbiased in its approach.>


Why should Social Security be on the table?

This isn't a welfare program.

The article sums it up very well:



Peterson, however, just can't help himself when it comes to Social Security; for instance, he asks guest after guest to explain to the audience how the Social Security Trust Fund, which holds more than $2.5 trillion in government debt, is actually a fiction.

That $2.5 trillion Trust Fund is the repository of payroll taxes paid by generations of working Americans, and the government bonds it holds are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America.

But to Peterson, that doesn't count, because the actual money that was paid in has been spent on other things and the government, to pay it back, would have to find the money somewhere else -- maybe in taxes, maybe by borrowing more money.

So while he won't say it in so many words, Peterson is essentially advocating for the U.S. to default on its debts -- not to the Chinese, of course, (that would "reduce investor confidence"), but to the American working people.




brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:09:38 PM)

You just answered your own question - because the money will have to come from somewhere in order to continue payouts at the current rate.

btw...I never said it was welfare. I called it appropriately an entitlement, which it is.




brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:11:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Entitlements such as Social Security should be on the table. Everyone will have to sacrifice to get us out of this debt shithole, but I question the credibility of anyone who takes a partisan stance on this issue. Cuts to defense, reduction or elimination of wasteful govt programs, and increased taxes all need to be considered as part of the solution.


Partisan conflict only maintains the current structure.

Eliminating the monetary system, and the cyclical consumption and greed it supports, would solve all problems related to money. 

It's time to start thinking outside the box. 


And you would replace the monetary system with what?

And other really smart people who don't think outside the box missed this very obvious solution how?




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:12:53 PM)

I think most would - agree to some minor tweaks to SS.

But after reckless govt,  it is harder for anyone to swallow. Particular folks who did everything right.

SS is a contract of sorts.   It is not a welfare program.   Of course as a nation we should have secured this 20 years ago.  






Jeffff -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:12:55 PM)

If they cut Social Securtiy, I won't be able to afford calamari when I retire.

What kind of retirement is that?




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:14:13 PM)

yeah - Jefff will be forced to roast up our nice pony!



stomp




brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:17:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

If they cut Social Securtiy, I won't be able to afford caliamari when I retire.

What kind of retirement is that?

Calamari is icky. You won't be missing anything.




pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:20:40 PM)

Jefff cant come to the phone.



he is opening a can of cat food for dinner- per his budget.   ;-0




rulemylife -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:28:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

You just answered your own question - because the money will have to come from somewhere in order to continue payouts at the current rate.

btw...I never said it was welfare. I called it appropriately an entitlement, which it is.


The money should never have been used for other purposes in the first place, that's why it is called a trust fund.

Debt reduction should not be put on the backs of the people who paid into the system.

Yes, it is an entitlement.  People are entitled to the benefits they worked for.





brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:37:50 PM)

I agree with you, rml, that this fund was plundered by our politicians again and again. But we can't solve the debt crisis by singing our coulda, shoulda, wouldas, now can we? Also, people need to be honest and recognize that SS was set up as a ponzi scheme to begin with. Even if we hadn't diverted funds from the trust, it was inevitable that the system would eventually become unsustainable. Maybe it's time to consider that SS should be something other than an entitlement, and phase it out in its current form.




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