RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net

RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (Full Version)

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DCWoody -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:49:35 PM)
Re: OP, this has been coming for years, govts promising money they won't have to pay for 20 30 40 years. Now it's 40 years later, aging population, not enough money, etc. Similar thing's been happening here, not started reductions yet, just plans to shift the age up.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:54:39 PM)
Roasted Anteater will start to look pretty good in retirement.

rulemylife -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 2:57:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub I agree with you, rml, that this fund was plundered by our politicians again and again. But we can't solve the debt crisis by singing our coulda, shoulda, wouldas, now can we? Also, people need to be honest and recognize that SS was set up as a ponzi scheme to begin with. Even if we hadn't diverted funds from the trust, it was inevitable that the system would eventually become unsustainable. Maybe it's time to consider that SS should be something other than an entitlement, and phase it out in its current form. I'm truly tired of hearing that reference. A Ponzi scheme is a fraud, a swindle, an illegal act that someone profits on. Social Security was set up as a trust fund and no, it was, and is not "inevitable" that the system collapses.

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 3:16:34 PM)
It is not a ponzi by the classical definition, but the mechanics still hold. If you prefer, we can call it a pyramid or a "rob Peter to pay Paul" type of scenario. They are all similar in nature, but I will concede that SS is not a "fraudulent investment" scheme. Many believed in good faith that there would always be a supply of new contributors at the bottom. The govt forces people to participate, vs a true ponzi or pyramid where investors are voluntary. The point is, that fact that payments out > payments in is something that politicians should have considered along the way. Application of a little basic math could have alerted us that the system was unsustainable once the baby boomers reached retirement age. Our politicians have known this for years, there just hasn't been the political will to do anything about it. <edited to add: You don't think a trust can be underfunded? Because it's a trust the well should never run dry?>

DCWoody -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 3:21:26 PM)
It's not inevitable that it collapses, but you can't take out money that doesn't exist. 10 million retirees taking out £100 pa each from a fund generating £300,000,000 pa (figures from the sky). It can't go on... the 'ponzi scheme' thing is just a phrase for retards who repeat words they know not the meaning of, but the government pension systems....in a variety of nations, are unsustainable when no politician dares reduce the cheque to sustainable levels. Maybe a good idea to lose the fixed number manifesto promises and do (earnings above inflation*0.99)/number of pensioners.

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 3:25:02 PM)
And I am one of those retards who just said what you did earlier in this thread. A ponzi or pyramid is not a bad analogy for how our govt pensions are funded. One doesn't need to be a genius to understand this.

DCWoody -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 3:35:53 PM)
I'd say it's a really terrible analogy, but I was referring to people who just repeat the phrase they've heard someone say.

subfever -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 4:45:09 PM)
quote: And you would replace the monetary system with what? A resource based economy, which utilizes existing resources instead of commerce.

pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 4:46:47 PM)
One has to watch the IMF. They are after all natural resources- key word- "perpetual"

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 5:04:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: And you would replace the monetary system with what? A resource based economy, which utilizes existing resources instead of commerce. Good luck with that. All you need is love...da da da da da... All you need is love...da da da da da... All you need is love, love.... Love is all you need Love is all you need.

pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:12:48 PM)
All you need is Goldman Sachs...da da da da da... All you need is JPM...da da da da da... All you need is Goldman Sachs, love.... JPMis all you need JPMis all you need.

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:17:08 PM)
Nice try.

pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:24:06 PM)
...they might face criminal charges. So let the "love" flow. lol

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:31:07 PM)
As they should, but love cannot be a replacement for a monetary system. A resource based economy would succeed or fail based the altruistic behavior of man. Get rid of money, and we'll all just have to learn to get by on love. Goldman and JP Morgan have nothing to do with it.

Elisabella -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:35:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever A resource based economy, which utilizes existing resources instead of commerce. There are so many things wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin. But I'll try with this - why, exactly, do you think that currency was created, if a direct barter system is more efficient?

pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:38:18 PM)
Brainiac, the Federal Reserve has EVERYTHING to do with it.

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:40:04 PM)
These are the kinds of solutions you get from people who have little understanding of the problem. The guy who invented this concept admittedly has no formal education, so it doesn't surprise me that so many would see it as a panacea to world peace.

pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:42:10 PM)
LOL. fiat money= rocks? Hoard gold!

brainiacsub -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:42:33 PM)
No, if we got rid or our monetary system and replaced it with some sort of barting for resources, eventually another more effiecient currency based system would arise. You don't need the Fed to have currency.

pahunkboy -> RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net (4/29/2010 6:44:37 PM)
You are precisely correct. You don't need the Fed to have currency. :-)

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