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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 5:24:39 AM   
nonuts4thshoney


Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV

quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney
LMFAO!!! yes and this is because they would refuse to believe the sub/slave has any problem right? They have disregard for their wellbeing.


K.. see if the sub has a problem.. then that means THEY have a problem.. and since the Dominant is all powerful.. there can be no problems. Thus there is no problem.

There are various degrees of infection in my mind anyway..

In certain cases.. If the sub has a problem like "That guy over there called me a name".. then by all means the Dominant will hear that problem because they can "show" how powerful they are by "solving" it.

However, when it comes to a problem with the relationship or inconviencing the Dominant in any way.. or if acknowledging the problem would reveal or require the Dominant to admit having a flaw, then it is no longer heard or a concern for the Dominant. If it is heard at all, it must then be a failure in the submissive as the Dominant is perfection personified.

Ex.
sub - "Can we talk? I just don't feel like I'm getting what I need out of this anymore."
Dom/me - "What you need is what I say you need. If you're not happy, its because you choose not to be happy. You're just not submissive enough.  Fetch my whip. I'll teach you what submission means."




i can't beleive that this happens. i wonder how often this occurs and what do the subs/slaves do in this situation? Do they stand up for themselves? Take it? or just leave? What gets the Dom to open their eyes and see what they are doing?

(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 5:32:12 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline 		Frankly, I find it more than a little disturbing that some people who identify with whatever gradation of this lifestyle—one which is constantly the subject of ridicule, scandal, scrutiny and controversy by the mainstream—are so quick to pass judgment on others within it using such cute little pseudo psychoanalysis catch phrases. After all, dominance and submission has little to do with conforming to the popular opinion of what is moral or "right".

Statements like, "The individual becomes mentally unbalanced." are almost laughable, given the context in which they are written. We are talking about BDSM, people—a practice of behavior that not so long ago, the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) declared generally as pathological.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 5:35:34 AM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney
i can't beleive that this happens. i wonder how often this occurs and what do the subs/slaves do in this situation? Do they stand up for themselves? Take it? or just leave? What gets the Dom to open their eyes and see what they are doing?


I actually don't know of any Dom/me that got that far into it that they got back out.  At least, not with their sub still in tow.  I think every Dominant has had an episode of this at least once or twice in their experience as a Dominant.

Usually during such an episode of temporary "Tops Disease", their sub will give them a look or say something SAMish to knock them out of it. Or they'll hear their own words escaping their mouths and think to themselves "OMG, I'm turning into a moron".

I've run into a few Dominants who have "Tops Disease" throughout the years, and have found most of them to be perpetually single.  Most subs it doesn't take them long to "wise up" to this abusive thinking, and since the infected Dominant can't be "wrong" or shown the light by someone "underneath" them.. The subs cut their losses and put the idiot on ignore.  However, I have seen subs who have had a past of being abused (or otherwise believe themelves to be dirt), enter into a life with such an infected Dominant.  These subs usually last a while before they're swayed (if they ever are swayed) to leave the relationship.

but thats just my experiences with it.

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 5:52:42 AM   
nonuts4thshoney


Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV

quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney
i can't beleive that this happens. i wonder how often this occurs and what do the subs/slaves do in this situation? Do they stand up for themselves? Take it? or just leave? What gets the Dom to open their eyes and see what they are doing?


I actually don't know of any Dom/me that got that far into it that they got back out.  At least, not with their sub still in tow.  I think every Dominant has had an episode of this at least once or twice in their experience as a Dominant.

Usually during such an episode of temporary "Tops Disease", their sub will give them a look or say something SAMish to knock them out of it. Or they'll hear their own words escaping their mouths and think to themselves "OMG, I'm turning into a moron".

I've run into a few Dominants who have "Tops Disease" throughout the years, and have found most of them to be perpetually single.  Most subs it doesn't take them long to "wise up" to this abusive thinking, and since the infected Dominant can't be "wrong" or shown the light by someone "underneath" them.. The subs cut their losses and put the idiot on ignore.  However, I have seen subs who have had a past of being abused (or otherwise believe themelves to be dirt), enter into a life with such an infected Dominant.  These subs usually last a while before they're swayed (if they ever are swayed) to leave the relationship.

but thats just my experiences with it.



i bet alot of Dom's with "Top's Disease" would say that the subs/slaves are just being bratty.

(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 6:19:54 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

OK so i'm reading all of this and another question comes to mind. How about the reactions to a subs/slaves physical and mental wellbeing? Does "Top's Disease" affect their reaction when a sub/slave asks for help? For example if a sub/slave were to say " i'm not doing well mentally and/or physically, i need help"  How might one with "Top's Disease" react to this?

Sometimes the top having Tops Disease can still be very attentive- in a way it feeds into his need for attention, he can swoop in and be the hero.  And this way it makes him look good to the other young shiny faces and gets him more tail and adoration (short term).

But this only goes to a point- eventually he feels his ego pricking him, he feels that helping the other person is taking his precious time and energy away from "important things" and will make the other person feel bad about it as a way to get out of it.

Of course, the really f-ed up part is when the sub really IS just using their own drama as a way to get attention and feed their own insecurities. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 6:23:27 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV
These subs usually last a while before they're swayed (if they ever are swayed) to leave the relationship.

but thats just my experiences with it.

The other option is that they just burn themselves out.  There can be a lot of anger and resentment with this path. 

But yes, if a top/dom/master doesn't wake themselves of this problem- they just don't seem to be able to have a relationship long term.  Their arrogance can make them very attuned for finding new people, but they don't have the perspective and communication skills to make it work in the long term.

And half the time when you hear subs coming here with questions like "My dom is doing this dumbass thing, what do I do?" is the result of all that starting to bubble over.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 6:33:28 AM   
nonuts4thshoney


Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyV
These subs usually last a while before they're swayed (if they ever are swayed) to leave the relationship.

but thats just my experiences with it.

The other option is that they just burn themselves out.  There can be a lot of anger and resentment with this path. 

But yes, if a top/dom/master doesn't wake themselves of this problem- they just don't seem to be able to have a relationship long term.  Their arrogance can make them very attuned for finding new people, but they don't have the perspective and communication skills to make it work in the long term.

And half the time when you hear subs coming here with questions like "My dom is doing this dumbass thing, what do I do?" is the result of all that starting to bubble over.


no wonder you see so many threads about a subs/slaves Dom's behaviour. i never realized what could really be going on. i never thought that something like this occured. i never even heard of "Top's Disease" until recently.  My curiousity was sparked. Well maybe others will read this and realize what they have. Maybe i've opened the eyes of a few by starting this thread. At least i hope that i have

< Message edited by nonuts4thshoney -- 4/7/2006 6:34:27 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 7:41:37 AM   
nonuts4thshoney


Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		i bet alot of the subs and slaves truely love their Dom's but would just like it if their Dom's realized that they had a problem.

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 7:55:48 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

i bet alot of the subs and slaves truely love their Dom's but would just like it if their Dom's realized that they had a problem.

Oh it's not like a lot of those subs and slaves aren't on their own little head trips and acting from their own insecurities.  It certainly goes both ways.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 8:24:47 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: nonuts4thshoney

i bet alot of the subs and slaves truely love their Dom's but would just like it if their Dom's realized that they had a problem.

Oh it's not like a lot of those subs and slaves aren't on their own little head trips and acting from their own insecurities.  It certainly goes both ways.


yes... I completely agree with Lucky that the situation goes both ways.  In my experience their is just as many submissives as there is Dominant's that exihibit behaviors that gives them a sense of power and pride.  Which in it's core is really just an illusion of them being trying to be more than they really are.  Sooner or later the bubble will burst.  I would also add it is rare that anyone is not infected to some degree at one time or another.  However, Top's Disease and what I call  bottom's Paradise are usually reserved for those that tend to take this illusion to an extreme.... oh and the fall from grace is a long one.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 8:45:39 AM   
acctonthelook


Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
But yes, if a top/dom/master doesn't wake themselves of this problem- they just don't seem to be able to have a relationship long term.  Their arrogance can make them very attuned for finding new people, but they don't have the perspective and communication skills to make it work in the long term.

 
I'm noticing that some Dom's only want short-term and lean towards the Sadistic.  This is purely something I'm not ready for nor do I think I would ever want in my life.

I like respecting one another as people and our roles together.  When I find a good Dom for me, hopefully he won't hide some Sadistic side within him and I learn the hard way who I've gotten involved with.  A good Dom for me, will have a kinder side to him and in that he deserves my devotion, loyalty, service and he’s willing to communicate on many levels. 
 
Being a sub does not mean I am forced to enter into his disease/ exploded ego.  I would not submit to him, just as I would not submit my life to the hands of an man who will physically/ emotionally abuse me because he down deep somewhere, “hates” women.  I have been there and will never allow another to take that kind of control of my “life” again. 

It does not change my being a submissive, it only allows me freedom to have a “healthy bonding relationship”.  I’m not looking for exploration as much as I’m seeking a D/s relationship, which is so much more than just “play”.

< Message edited by acctonthelook -- 4/7/2006 8:47:48 AM >

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 9:38:53 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		New Doms tend to think they can do no wrong. That what they want, they should get. They are intoxicated with power, to put it simply. Many times this manifests itself as a desire for more than one sub/slave. The power that a Dom weilds is quite heady stuff and it can intoxicate someone tremendously. Takes a while for that particular "high" to wear off.

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 11:02:18 AM   
acctonthelook


Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline 		my gut tells me your right. though i don't want to be there waiting. LOL

(in reply to MasterRobert1)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 2:58:39 PM   
JoeT2000


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		To my mind "tops disease" is where the Dominant enters into BDSM for ego and a need to have people look up to them (usually due to poor self esteem)... I find nicks give some indication of this... beware the Lord_Emporer_Masterful_Mighty_Powerful etc type nicks.

Training a submissive requires patience, caring, and the promotion of self esteem... not battering her into the ground for the need to feel superior. This is the line when I feel D/s can journey into an abusive relationship.

If the training is enabling, and helping the submissive experience heights of emotion, sensation, and a training which develops her expression of sensuality and provides personal growth... punishment / disapproval / withdrawal of attention... from time to time, is fair. This is aside from the psycho-erotic side of S&M and the enjoyment of being in control or letting someone else take control or the enjoyment of pain / endorphin rush etc.

I think there is bottom disease too... where self esteem is destroyed (sometimes before the person enters BDSM), and the desire for punishment is based on low, or no, self esteem or sense of self worth. I am worthless, so treat me like dirt.

I find it interesting that, in my opinion, both "diseases" come from a sense of poor self worth... perhaps the polarities of behaviour are linked to fight or flight responses.

Joe




(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 7:03:46 PM   
Alixandria


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/27/2005
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

acctonthelook

I'm noticing that some Dom's only want short-term and lean towards the Sadistic. 

The phenomenon of "Top's Disease" that we're discussing has nothing to do with either a wish for short-term relationships nor with sadism.  If neither of those are for you, of course you shouldn't accept such partnerships.  But neither is considered wrong in and of themselves.

For what it's worth, I can sort of understand the temptation to start to believe your own press (which is mostly what Top's Disease is).  I've always tried to maintain a fairly low profile, but flagging both top and female and being active on a chat channel has garnered an awful lot of "I'll serve you forever" from fellows who have never even met me.  I just keep reminding myself that they're basing their impression on some fantasy in their heads and not on any qualities I might possess.  But if I were less impressionable ...

Alix

(in reply to acctonthelook)
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RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 7:29:24 PM   
acctonthelook


Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alixandria

quote:

acctonthelook

I'm noticing that some Dom's only want short-term and lean towards the Sadistic. 

The phenomenon of "Top's Disease" that we're discussing has nothing to do with either a wish for short-term relationships nor with sadism.  If neither of those are for you, of course you shouldn't accept such partnerships.  But neither is considered wrong in and of themselves.


Hi Alix,  I was referring to Lucky's post and what my experience has been thus far.
 
No disrespect for Sadist's in my post. I simply stated, that it was not a relationship I think I could handle or think I would ever want. That's not saying there likes are wrong or bashing in anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
But yes, if a top/dom/master doesn't wake themselves of this problem- they just don't seem to be able to have a relationship long term.  Their arrogance can make them very attuned for finding new people, but they don't have the perspective and communication skills to make it work in the long term.


Her last sentence is exactly why a relationship with a Sadist or a Dom with Tops does not work for me.  I need that communication skill in someone I'm emotionally/physically involved with.  There's nothing wrong with that.  My post was speaking about tops disease. I'm trying to say that for me so far, a Sadist's outlook (when I've communicated with them) does resemble the top disease definition but maybe I'm just scared of them for now b/c I don't know enuf about their lifestyle choices.  I have been pondering posting the question anyway.  Now I think I might, just to understand them better.  Thanks.

(in reply to Alixandria)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 8:00:24 PM   
Alixandria


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/27/2005
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

Her last sentence is exactly why a relationship with a Sadist or a Dom with Tops does not work for me.  I need that communication skill in someone I'm emotionally/physically involved with. 

Now I am curious.  What makes you think that a sadist necessarily does less communicating with their bottom than a Dom does with a sub? 

As someone who is not interested in a D/s relationship but would like a steady kink based relationship, I am sometimes bemused by the idea that D/s holds a monopoly on communication and relationship skills.  For me, this stuff is every bit as personal as what I see going on among the D/s people I meet at a munch, some of whom seem to swap partners every week or so.  I have, on the other hand, met a few couples who are pure S&M who are long term partnerships and seem very close to me.

Now I understand that this is not what you are looking for, and that is perfectly fine (as I stated in my previous post). 

Alix

(in reply to acctonthelook)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 8:32:26 PM   
acctonthelook


Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alixandria

quote:

Her last sentence is exactly why a relationship with a Sadist or a Dom with Tops does not work for me.  I need that communication skill in someone I'm emotionally/physically involved with. 

Now I am curious.  What makes you think that a sadist necessarily does less communicating with their bottom than a Dom does with a sub? 

As someone who is not interested in a D/s relationship but would like a steady kink based relationship, I am sometimes bemused by the idea that D/s holds a monopoly on communication and relationship skills.  For me, this stuff is every bit as personal as what I see going on among the D/s people I meet at a munch, some of whom seem to swap partners every week or so.  I have, on the other hand, met a few couples who are pure S&M who are long term partnerships and seem very close to me.

Now I understand that this is not what you are looking for, and that is perfectly fine (as I stated in my previous post). 

Alix



See that is 'my' confusion.  I did however post the question for trying to understand this dynamic.  Haven't checked out the responses just yet.

(in reply to Alixandria)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 8:59:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: acctonthelook
See that is 'my' confusion.  I did however post the question for trying to understand this dynamic.  Haven't checked out the responses just yet.


Being sadistic really has no correlation to anything else about a person.  Many submissives are sadists.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to acctonthelook)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Tops Disease - 4/7/2006 9:33:42 PM   
acctonthelook


Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Being sadistic really has no correlation to anything else about a person.  Many submissives are sadists.


Your great at explaining things when I read your posts, can you elaborate on this?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 40
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