In Praise of Pro-Dommes (Full Version)

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AspX -> In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/1/2010 10:54:03 AM)

When I have a few moments, I like to read P/people's journals and have definitely noticed a lot of P/people bitching and whining about Pro-Dommes. Although I do journal as well, I've never even gotten a comment back from A/anyone so I've decided to make my case here rather than there.

First of all... I am talking about true Professional Dominatrixes (and subs to a lesser extent because they have to have way too many rules in order to protect themselves), not the "Pro Dommes" that just spam you on CM. What is the difference? For me, a real Professional Dominatrix has Her own website where She fully explains how She approaches Her sessions, the types of services She engages in, and what the rates for Her time are. Unless She is a traveling Domme, I expect that W/we will meet at a Dungeon (either a Professional one She is affiliated with or Her own personal one) and not a hotel room (for traveling Dommes, a hotel room is understandable). I expect that She advertises on one of the recognizable places to find Pro-Dommes, such as Eros, DickieVirgin, MaxFisch, or even Domme.com. I want to be able to tell that She is for real by seeing that others have seen Her and posted reviews on TheEroticReview or some other review site. Finally, I expect both a professional attitude and discretion. I am not going to send Her a picture or show Her my driver's license. I am not going to buy Her a gift or send Her a tribute just for the right to be Her customer (a gift is only a gift if I decide to buy someone something... not if its demanded of me), or even provide any compensation beyond the pre-negotiated session price.

Having said all of that... I believe in Pro-Dommes and the services They provide. First of all... D/s and BDSM are about the sexual thrill for M/me. I/i am therefore a player and not looking for any type of LTR other than just making F/friends (with or without benefits). However, I/i do not have the luxury of M/many of the P/people here to be able to have M/my life withstand the fact that I/i enjoy this world (its the same reason I am drug-free... its not that I care about fooling around with illegal drugs... its that the impact on my life would be too great and it isn't worth it... just like the joy I/i get from BDSM). Because I refuse to send pictures, have cam chats, provide any personally identifiable information to A/anyone and am up front with A/anyone I/i message/chat with before T/they would ever consider U/us to be more than just friends (in the past, I have had online D/s R/relationships that lasted for several years with B/both of U/us knowing and agreeing to the rules).

All this means that "Real BDSM" P/people will never get involved with M/me (nor should T/they). Professional Dominatrixes are Women who are in the lifestyle, many having been trained for years, and are now translating those skills into either a career or a way to make extra money. Unlike "Real BDSM", there is never any sex (or chance of sex) and rarely is there nudity on the part of the Domme. They understand that there are many who are in the same position as myself when it comes to BDSM and are willing to provide their services just like a plumber does for people who are unable to fix their own pipes. Sure, some people are do it yourselfers, or have an uncle that understands plumbing, so they would "never pay for someone to fix a leaky faucet", but I can't even seem to get my toilet to stop running. The fact is that when I am sore, I don't mind paying for a visit to a chiropractor, physical therapist or a massuese to take care of those needs and I feel the same way about fulfilling my needs for BDSM.

Finally, there is also a misconception that Pro-Dommes are all the same and are all about the money. Yes, They get paid for providing Their services but They also want to enjoy Their work just as much as Y/you enjoy Y/yours. Lawyers and accountants have advanced skills and specialties based a combination of their training and varied experiences. The same can be said for Pro-Dommes. Finally, think about Y/your relationship with Y/your doctor/lawyer/accountant. Is it friendly and enjoyable. Do Y/you look at them as real people? Well.. my relationships with the Pro-Dommes i have had the pleasure to be with are the exact same thing.

There is nothing wrong with the idea that D/s and BDSM can be about lifetime commitments and marriage in the same way that finding any type of real-life partner is. But, the thought of demanding that same type of commitment before you would allow someone to do your taxes is ridiculous. The purpose of a Pro-Domme is not to replace or even compete with having a relationship based on BDSM, but rather to fulfill a need that you cannot take care of for yourself. For this reason, i thank the Pro-Dommes for offering their services.




LadyAngelika -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/1/2010 2:32:56 PM)

quote:

I have had online D/s R/relationships that lasted for several years with B/both of U/us knowing and agreeing to the rules


Oh my. Do you think you can get a couple more slashes in that sentence? (It is a little overboard)

As for ProDommes, it's not a question of believing in them or not. They exist and it is simply a question of supply and demand. Nothing more, nothing less.

I will say that you have made many assumptions of what they are and are not. Since it is not a regulated profession, every ProDomme can pretty much do what she wants.

As far as I'm concerned, from my observations, ProDommes have 4 base clientèles:
1) those who are just starting out and are curious and want to try - they are potential good quality boys, but they aren't there yet as they don't really understand what are the dynamics when they aren't paying for it;
2) those who have no time/desire to be in a committed relationship but want the experience - they aren't submitting to anyone really as they are having D/s à la carte
3) those who are married, usually in a monogamous relationship, which are very much like number 2 except are scumbags;
4) those who are maladapted and can't find a Domme.

I know I'm harsh, but that is my opinion on the issue. ProDomme is a service for the men who fetishize D/s but for some reason or another are incapable of being in a D/s relationship whether it is because they aren't there yet mentally or they just don't get it.

- LA



auditguy -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/1/2010 6:08:14 PM)

This is a strange topic for a first post, interesting but strange.   However, ignoring the interest and strangeness of the post, I am fully behind your sentiment.  More power to the capitalist incarnation of the lifestyle.

The Pro-Dommes saw an unmet and pent up demand, so they came and they conquered, while at the same time making wallets lighter and bank accounts smaller.  Viva la Revolucion.  



ishyB -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/1/2010 8:49:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I have had online D/s R/relationships that lasted for several years with B/both of U/us knowing and agreeing to the rules


Oh my. Do you think you can get a couple more slashes in that sentence? (It is a little overboard)

 
This is an even weirder example; I've never seen anybody do this before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX
However, I/i do not have the luxury of M/many of the P/people here to be able to have M/my life withstand the fact that I/i enjoy this world. 



OP, you don't need to capitalize and small-print EVERY personal pronoun (and a whole bunch of other words...)

In fact, there is really no need to use the slash on any personal pronouns.
The reason SOME people do it is because they usually address dominants with a capital letter, even when using pronouns, and then when they are addressing both dominants and subs, they use the slash to still show the respect to dominants, while including subs as well.

When you write I/i, it looks like you are addressing yourself as "I Dominant" and "i submissive" at the same time, which is really sorta weird.
Lots of people don't like the slash thing, though at the same time lots of other people do like it and use it... just never with pronoun referring to themselves.

I wish you well,

ishy





ResidentSadist -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/1/2010 10:38:43 PM)

~fr
I confess... I didnt read it. I just wanted to know if sucking up worked and they got laid?



pompeii -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/1/2010 10:56:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Oh my. Do you think you can get a couple more slashes in


Personally, I find the pro-subs much more worthy of my slashes ...



CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 2:11:04 AM)

AspX...you know your needs and limits and have them met in a way that's acceptable to you.  Good.




pegbundy -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 2:25:40 AM)

What what what? There are pro-subs? How could I not have known this?



VaguelyCurious -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 2:27:25 AM)

There are pro-subs. Not entirely sure how the thing works, but I know a few...



pegbundy -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 2:34:18 AM)

Fascinating - I must read up on this. Can't imagine it's something I could do, but I now need to know all about it.


To the OP - putting aside the fact that all those slashes make reading very uncomfortable for me, I thought your post was kinda nice. I see quite a few posts pissing and moaning about proDommes. I read your post as a sort of "thank you for being who you are" kind of thing.



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 7:33:41 AM)

Sorry about the overuse of the slashes... On some sites, the whole Capitalization and slash thing is really important to people and I don't want to offend anyone.

As for my assumptions about Pro-Dommes... I was trying to make a distinction between the "Pro-Dommes" who we get bombarded with on this site and that people seem to bitch about constantly (those that are looking for suckers to just send them money) and ones that are actually real and provide a service to those of us who are not lucky enough to be able to live this out in the open.

Your list of clienteles is actually missing one: Those people who cannot afford to be associated with the BDSM lifestyle because of the social attitudes towards it and the negative affects that can have on their ability to make a living (this would be a subset of group #2).

BDSM today is like being gay in the 1970s, there may be places that are accepting of it and you can have a "devil may care" attitude for those people who don't but there can also be severe repercussions for those of us in the "closet".




AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 7:36:44 AM)

As a switch, I was referencing myself as both when I wrote "I/i"... so it was an appropriate use for some communities... apparently just not this one.



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 7:40:12 AM)

Yea... that's what the post was about... sucking up rather than responding to the massive numbers of people bitching about Pro-Dommes on CM...



RedMagic1 -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 7:46:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX
As a switch, I was referencing myself as both when I wrote "I/i"... so it was an appropriate use for some communities...

Really?  Damn!  I hereby declare those communities to be REALLY REALLY DORKY!!!!

Signed,

International Arbiter of Kinked-up Dorkiness



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 7:49:10 AM)

Yes... there are pro-subs and from my experience they generally fall into two categories. One set are switches who will sub with a client if they feel comfortable with that person. The second set are subs who connect themselves with either a pro-dungeon or an individual domme.

In the first case, limits are very much in place for a combination of safety reasons and the fact that they may be seeing multiple doms in a short period of time so recovery and soreness is an issue.

In the second case, pro-subs are either a part of an actual dual session with a mistress or one is in the room to monitor and keep the sub safe.



AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 7:50:54 AM)

Not gonna argue the point... Just explaining why I wrote the way that I did...



LadyAngelika -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 9:28:50 AM)

quote:

Your list of clienteles is actually missing one: Those people who cannot afford to be associated with the BDSM lifestyle because of the social attitudes towards it and the negative affects that can have on their ability to make a living (this would be a subset of group #2).


Trust me when I tell you that not only can I not afford to be associated with the BDSM lifestyle, I don't consider BDSM to be my lifestyle. I happen to be a dominant and kinky woman. My lifestyle encompasses more than this.

That said, living a clandestine life doesn't mean that I have to resort turning my sex life into a business transaction. When I have been involved with someone, it has more often than not been in a BDSM dynamic but the only people who really know what is going on between my partner and I are the two of us.

So what you describe is a motivation for #2 and not a subset.

quote:

BDSM today is like being gay in the 1970s, there may be places that are accepting of it and you can have a "devil may care" attitude for those people who don't but there can also be severe repercussions for those of us in the "closet".


What we can learn from the gays is that we do not need to let the climate repress us and affect our self worth.

- LA



ReginaMirus -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 10:13:08 AM)

Dear god, PLEASE tell me where these commonly held communities are, where you are REQUIRED to regurgitate this ridiculous slashy speak, out of fear of "offending" someone else's delicate sensitivities.

(BTW, "your brain" doesn't count! [;)] )



LadyPact -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 10:23:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX

Sorry about the overuse of the slashes... On some sites, the whole Capitalization and slash thing is really important to people and I don't want to offend anyone.

As for my assumptions about Pro-Dommes... I was trying to make a distinction between the "Pro-Dommes" who we get bombarded with on this site and that people seem to bitch about constantly (those that are looking for suckers to just send them money) and ones that are actually real and provide a service to those of us who are not lucky enough to be able to live this out in the open.

You're confusing Me a bit with this.  I'm not picking on you here, but I would like some clarification.  The first paragraph gives the impression that you're fairly new here (as does your joining date shown to the left) yet you mention the bombardment/constant complaining about the scammer type of pro around here.  I have to wonder a bit if it's really that much of an issue for someone who created a profile roughly six weeks ago.  (We females go through something similar when we first come here, being overwhelmed by emails from males, but not necessarily the scam-related stuff that you seem to be mentioning here.)

quote:

Your list of clienteles is actually missing one: Those people who cannot afford to be associated with the BDSM lifestyle because of the social attitudes towards it and the negative affects that can have on their ability to make a living (this would be a subset of group #2).

Again, this isn't to be harsh on you, but I do find this to be something of a fear based statement.  Are you really implying here that your profession couldn't withstand you being at a munch or doing things within the privacy of your own home within a relationship, but everything would be cool as long as all you were doing was visiting a pro domme?  Somehow, I just don't see that.

The topic of "can't attend a munch due to profession" comes up around here every now and again.  Granted, you should do what's right for you and you know your situation better than I do.  Still, to the best of My knowledge, there are very few occupations that people hold that I *haven't* sat at the same munch table with or attended the same BDSM event.  (For the record, those very few would be politician, judge, - could be seen as the same thing - day care worker, priest, nun, and anybody currently working for the department of social services.  I'm not saying that people in those occupations aren't involved somewhere in BDSM.  I just haven't met any of them personally yet.)  So, unless you're doing one of those things for a living, there really are people who do exactly what you do to earn your income out there who are participating in BDSM.

Yes, it can mean risking a lot, and I'm not saying that's not a valid concern.  Yet, some people are taking that risk because they are happier living their life the way they feel is right for them.

quote:

BDSM today is like being gay in the 1970s, there may be places that are accepting of it and you can have a "devil may care" attitude for those people who don't but there can also be severe repercussions for those of us in the "closet".

No, I'm sorry, but it's not.  While I'll give you the bit about your occupation, you're not living in fear that your next door neighbor might burn down your house if they discovered you were kinky and you're not getting rolled by ignorant thugs out for fun.  You're not getting raped because some idiot thinks that all a lesbian needs is a <cough> real man <cough> to show her the error of her ways and all she needs is some dick.  Nobody's trying to "cure" you and your church isn't shunning you.  Whatever fears you have, they aren't quite the same as those fears.

I'd like to welcome you here, and I really hope you'll stay.  You might find some benefit.  You might even find that your world is a bit bigger than you think it is.





AspX -> RE: In Praise of Pro-Dommes (5/2/2010 12:51:11 PM)

Bombardment is a relative term and it is not just about getting e-mails... I do receive 1-2 messages per day (I think that is probably about average for a guy), but its also about reading profiles and seeing the calls for tribute before someone will talk to you, posting of a domme's amazon wish lists, demands for financial slaves/ATMs, etc...

I understand it is nothing compared to the crap women have to put up with, but it is still annoying for guys and nothing that women ever have to deal with (I have yet to see the male demand that the female buy them a gift before even messaging them). The reason for the post was not my own annoyance with this behavior, but a reaction to reading people's journals by clicking on the "recent journals" button (which I have been doing fairly regularly). In those journals, I noticed that there would be at least one entry each time I looked by somebody condemning Pro-Dommes because of the types of behaviors mentioned above.

quote:


Are you really implying here that your profession couldn't withstand you being at a munch or doing things within the privacy of your own home within a relationship, but everything would be cool as long as all you were doing was visiting a pro domme? 


Nope... not saying that at all... its the BDSM part that causes the issues. There are certain jobs that I have not applied for because of the background checks and other parts of my life might be at risk if the BDSM thing became public. A munch means that a group of people know, rather than one. Most relationships fall apart (yes... I used the word most for a reason... you have to be insanely lucky to find the exact right person for you on the first try) and the level of uglines that can ensue when that occurs with breakups (both vanilla and BDSM) is downright scary at times. Therefore, being a semi-anonymous customer of a professional is the safest route for me.

quote:


While I'll give you the bit about your occupation, you're not living in fear that your next door neighbor might burn down your house if they discovered you were kinky and you're not getting rolled by ignorant thugs out for fun.


I figured someone would jump on me for the comparison to Gay repression, but remember that to many people a guy that is in BDSM is a sicko and the equivalent of someone who has committed a sex crime (which immediately translates into child molester when talking to someone, regardless of the actual crime). So, yes... if you are "out" and living in a nice suburban community, let's see you try to coach a kid's soccer team. Because people who are considered to be child molesters living in someone's neighborhood would never get the kinds of reactions you are talking about (even if it is not even close to being the truth).

The reason why gays have been so persecuted is because they represent a sexual ideal that is not normal to the people around them. What makes that so different from being known as someone who likes to hurt, or be hurt by, someone else. Can you see a group of aggressive teens or 20-somethings getting drunk and then going after the subbie down the street. Declaring that "he/she wanted it" and that's what "he/she" was into anyways? Maybe I am just paranoid, but I can.

*editiing for the color to show properly*



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