Civilisation ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Civilisation ? (5/2/2010 6:50:02 AM)

On searching for a scholarly article on the origins of Patriarchy, I came upon a rather interesting article on Civilisation, which does give some very interesting food for thought.

Now depending on your politics of course this is not going to appeal to everyone, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the article ;

Is Civilisation our undoing ?

Have we not learnt anything from the great civilisations that rose to power, thrived and died in the past ?

Is what the article about a viable and attractive way forward ?


The article ;

Introduction The success of civilization can be gauged by just how much it has limited our vision and our aspirations. It’s nearly impossible for any one of us to really grasp just how much we have lost by our domestication. Our senses have been dulled; we’ve been trained to not trust our instincts, subjugated to a fully dehumanized, mechanical hierarchy; living in boxes within boxes within boxes. We mow our lawns, we play along, and we spend our entire lives being pushed through the linear future that has been scientifically determined to breed the most ‘efficient’ consumers. We play along, yet everyone one of us has that urge, that feeling that something is wrong, or there could be something more. For millions of years we have lived in a way that is completely different from this. We always have to remember that when we’re looking at ‘savages’ and ‘primitives’ we are really looking at wild (or more wild as the case may be) versions of ourselves. They are no different from us in any physical or mental sense, other than the fact that they have not been beaten down..............................................................

Continued off site, here if you wish to read further



whipmaker7 -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/2/2010 7:03:16 AM)

great read, Aneirin. I havent finished it all yet, but I skipped ahead and read the conclusion and decided the rest is worth digesting.



Aneirin -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/2/2010 6:09:45 PM)

Oh shit, I have spelled the topic heading wrong, so, to those who may care to look in, please see civilization not what I put in my retarded English.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/2/2010 6:14:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Oh shit, I have spelled the topic heading wrong, so, to those who may care to look in, please see civilization not what I put in my retarded English.


(They let you edit your heading....just like your prose).



Aneirin -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/2/2010 6:18:39 PM)

I wrote what I did in English, not American, it only occured many hours later, so the edit function I suppose has gone.



luckydawg -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 4:05:31 AM)

So you are asking if a future of illiteracy, no doctors, and lots an lots of Dead babies, is viable or attractive.....

I vote No.

Though on the plus side there would be no morons wasting thier time(or wasting resources) making silly manifestos about "Green Anarchy". Imagine hw many surplus hours went into creating that piece of shit web page



thompsonx -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 12:56:04 PM)

quote:

Imagine hw many surplus hours went into creating that piece of shit web page


One might also say the same about your posts...but you would still be able to post.
Ain't america grand?



Moonhead -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 1:05:24 PM)

I think luckydawg has it right in this case.
I also suspect that the back to nature guys will be fucked as soon as the stuff they need that's mass produced runs out: you know, bullets, sanitary products for their ladyfriends, toilet paper, books, newspapers, generators, medical supplies, like that.



pyroaquatic -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 1:25:57 PM)

The only time a society is a bane is when we do not transcend and include current and past events.

Our current civilization is pushing that plastic faster then they are making it.

When I earn some land (which I predict is going to happen in the very near future) I am going to make my self a little experiment with sustainability.

I met myself a thirty year old yurt lady in ohio.

She lived in a yurt and she was very nomadic by nature.

Now I want a yurt. :D

A permiyurt thank you.



Moonhead -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 1:29:13 PM)

If it's permanent, is it still a yurt? I thought a big part of the point was that you can take it with you if you move.

No argument with the rest though, but self sufficiency can be bloody tricky on the kind of land most can actually afford at the moment.



RCdc -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 1:36:49 PM)

Doesn't have to move, it's just supposed to be portable and usually made from natural resources.  Otherwises it's just a common tent.[;)]

the.dark.



Moonhead -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 1:43:12 PM)

I stand corrected.



thompsonx -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 2:37:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I think luckydawg has it right in this case.
I also suspect that the back to nature guys will be fucked as soon as the stuff they need that's mass produced runs out: you know, bullets, sanitary products for their ladyfriends, toilet paper, books, newspapers, generators, medical supplies, like that.


There is a civilization in central Africa, we call them pygmies. They call themselves
Mbuti. The ancient Egyptians wrote about them some five or six thousand years ago and described them as "pre-stone age people". The Egyptian discription parallels the discription by modern day anthropoligists.
These folks (the smallest humans on the planet hunt the largest land mamals on the planet with sharp sticks and never loose) have no king,president,chief or prime minister.
They live long healthy lives that are equal or greater than most industrialized societies.
No one is rich no one is poor. No one is hungry. They do not have a word for war,murder of a human or rape.
Nor do they have words to describe any of your above products.



thompsonx -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 2:45:10 PM)

quote:

No argument with the rest though, but self sufficiency can be bloody tricky on the kind of land most can actually afford at the moment.


In another thread Thadius posted up a list of homes in Detroit I believe where there were some 500+ homes for sale. There were more than thirty of them for less than $10,000. Some were as cheap as $2000.
The pictures showed real houses on real land in a city which implies running water,sewers and electricity. And the houses did not look like they were falling down...granted only one pic of each house.
This down economy might bring you an awesome opportunity. I cant imagine that detroit is the only city with those sorts of deals.



luckydawg -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 3:44:45 PM)

Actually there are several closely related bands of Pygmies, Mbuti are just one of them.

While some folks like to pretend they live in a paradise the reality is quite different. For over 2000 years they have been economically entertwined with the farmers living outside thier forest. The idea that thier culture has not changed for 6000 years is nonsense. In addition they have an at birth life expectancy of 32 years. 20% of the children die before the first birthday, and 50% die before they turn 15. Like I (and the article from the OP said, lots of dead babies, the article says that is a good thing as it keeps the population down.). They have an almost 100% illiteracy rate. And for thousands of years have depended on Villagers to handle their criminal cases. They do indeed fight, and kill and rape. The idea they havbe now words for these are nonsense. More of the "Noble savage" bullshit that has been popular with Westerners for the past few generations. An aspect of cultural self loathing.


They are also completely unable to defend thier lands and way of life.



thompsonx -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 4:34:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Actually there are several closely related bands of Pygmies, Mbuti are just one of them.

While some folks like to pretend they live in a paradise the reality is quite different. For over 2000 years they have been economically entertwined with the farmers living outside thier forest. The idea that thier culture has not changed for 6000 years is nonsense. In addition they have an at birth life expectancy of 32 years. 20% of the children die before the first birthday, and 50% die before they turn 15. Like I (and the article from the OP said, lots of dead babies, the article says that is a good thing as it keeps the population down.). They have an almost 100% illiteracy rate. And for thousands of years have depended on Villagers to handle their criminal cases. They do indeed fight, and kill and rape. The idea they havbe now words for these are nonsense. More of the "Noble savage" bullshit that has been popular with Westerners for the past few generations. An aspect of cultural self loathing.


They are also completely unable to defend thier lands and way of life.



Is this just your opinion or have you some validation for your post?



pyroaquatic -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 5:23:50 PM)

Unless you cite your sources it sounds like pure drivel. Give some awesome sauce up.

You cannot condemn an entire civilization based on the actions of a few.



thompsonx -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 5:33:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Unless you cite your sources it sounds like pure drivel. Give some awesome sauce up.

You cannot condemn an entire civilization based on the actions of a few.



If you were to go to wiki you might find some similarities to that post.
On this particular subject wiki is woefully inadequate, there are much better sources.
Then there is the ever popular phrase..."poop, I was wrong" ...coined by one of our regular CM posters.[8|]



Icarys -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 5:49:38 PM)

Why don't you take that feud you have to emails?

It's silly.



tropicalhoney -> RE: Civilisation ? (5/4/2010 6:02:52 PM)

Why don't you take that feud you have to emails?

It's silly.


Thank you Icarys for the suggestion



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