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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 8:39:03 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I filled out a paper.....

After all:

There can be only one.

Highlander  

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 8:56:16 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I filled out a paper.....

After all:

There can be only one.

Highlander  


Would that make you Duncan McOtter of the clan McOtter?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 8:58:23 AM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		LANCE HUGHES HAS BEEN TRAINED AS AN ENUMERATOR.  ASK ME AND I'LL TELL YOU THE TRUTH.  I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THIS STRING AND ANSWER EACH OF THESE POSTS INDIVIDUALLY.

But, I will answer the OP:

... the census doorknockers being trained to report any "anti-government sentiment" they might encounter.

Patently FALSE!

If the respondent refuses, we record "REF" and look for a proxy (landlord, neighbor, etc.)  The purpose of the Census is simply and ONLY to count the population of the US so that seats in the US house of Representatives can be allocated proportionally.

GO READ YOUR CONSTITUTION, pahunkboy

Data on age and race is being collected so that Federal, State, and local governments can make informed discisions as to special programs.  Plain data (pop.count and age) is used for street planning, schools, etc.  Data on relationships is being collected for genealogical reasons.

The ONLY birth info being collected is date-of-birth.  NOT even place or country..... NO info on parental place of birth, etc. which makes me sad.  Such info on family structure really helps ME in MY genelogical research - 1920 Census was released in 1992.  1930 Census won't be released until 2012...... (my Mom and Dad were both born in 1921, so we researchers won't see them for another 2 years!)

Another example - this year, a respondent might be a boarder at residence.  He/she answers relationships with respect to HIM/HER.  So, 72 years from now, boarder's answers will be "Other non-relative" for all the people in the housing unit.  Foster children, biological kids with different names and so on can't/won't be identified as children of their parents.  How sad for future researchers.  (I'll be 142 then, so it's kinda moot from my point-of-view, y'think?)

NO Personal Identifiable Information (PII) can be released for 72 years.  NO access is allowed to IRS, FBI, CIA, or anyone else, be they individuals or Gov't agency.  Fine is up to $250,000 and up to 5 years in jail for each violation.  Forms are all numbered and you can bet-your-sweet ass my forms are secured in a locked brief case in a locked room when I don't have them in hand.  I don't even leave them in my locked truck when I'm out-on-street.  And that's the blank forms.... There is ONLY an address - NO name, phone or anything else.... That's why we (the enumerators) MUST make personal visits.

Of course, I'm part of the conspiracy, so what I type falls on deaf ears.

I'm going to subscribe to this thread so that I can try to answer "legit" questions, but right now, I've got to go knock on some doors. LOL!




< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 5/4/2010 9:05:30 AM >

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(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 10:30:02 AM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		AND after thinking about this for a few minutes, I want to add that the code of REF is used for ALL refusals - there is NO distinction made between: "I don't have time because I'm 24/7 at the Hospital with my dying spouse.  Just here to grab the mail which I'm taking to his/her bed-side,"  through "I'm concerned about identity theft," through "I won't answer ANY government questions," followed by a door slam.

For certain objections, we have a semi-script - some info that we can share.  Door slams - yep.... just record REF and look for proxy.

Dogs - yes, we're to consider our safety FIRST.

6 traffic deaths? Here's the news article with an official statement included:
====================
URL: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6987557.html

WASHINGTON — The Census Bureau says it is being watchful about potential dangers to its workers after six died in auto accidents in the last week.

At a news briefing Monday, Census Bureau director Robert Groves said the traffic deaths were of concern. He says that with more than 600,000 temporary census workers out in the field conducting interviews, “all sorts of bad things happen.”

At least two of the traffic deaths occurred over the weekend in the Lubbock, Texas, area, after the bureau began its door-to-door count, which runs until mid-July. (Details of the Lubbock crash here.)

In the 2000 census, there were 13 automobile deaths, as well as a dog attack on a 71-year-old worker.
====================

Panda, yes, there was a test as part of the application process.  Your statements as to level of "correctness" to get a call-back are simply wrong.

Here's the sample test (PDF file) that is very, very close to what I took:

2010.census.gov/2010censusjobs/documents/Practice_Test.pdf
 
Again: what I type is falling on deaf ears.  This string is well on its way to page 2.  GOOD!

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 5/4/2010 10:37:30 AM >

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 10:55:49 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		For various reasons I have never filled out a census and I am old enough to get money in the mail.
I live in a pretty remote area...closest paved road is 2 miles and the closest power line is 6 miles away.
So for the last two census no one showed up to count me.
A few months ago I found a guy in a 4wd driving across my property. Turns out he is with the census bureau and is out in the middle of the desert with his gps marking any habitable dwelling. His gps was working off of what looked like a google map but he had a pic of me and my place and he said he was just there to verify my existence and did I have any sort of address because all he had was a parcel number from the tax assessors office.
So far I have not recieved a census form and no one has been to visit.
whazupwidat?

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 11:11:04 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes
Panda, yes, there was a test as part of the application process.  Your statements as to level of "correctness" to get a call-back are simply wrong.


No, they are not. I'm a supervisor with the census, and part of my job is to train enumerators. I know what the standard is for hiring in my city, and in Saint Paul, I haven't met a single hire whose test score was  less than 26. And even they were veterans. You might want to read my post again and make sure you understand exactly what I said.


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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 12:44:53 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'm a supervisor with the census, and part of my job is to train enumerators.



Do you mean a Census District Leader (CDL) ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The only thing enumerators are trained to report - in fact, the only thing they are even allowed to report - is anything they perceive to be a reasonable threat to their personal safety. If they witness a crime in progress, they are not even allowed to call 911 to report it. To do so is potentially a firing offense. There is absolutely no way in hell enumerators are being trained to "report possible anti-government sentiment."



I did NOT "get" that about no-911.  Please direct me to the appropriate page in Chapter 8, Topic 2 of D-547 (of which I just did a quickie review.)  Maybe it's someplace else, but that's where I just looked and I only looked there.  I'll check with my CDL later this afternoon when I turn in my D-308 and some EQs from last night and this morning.

ETA: And I don't see it in D-590 either.



< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 5/4/2010 12:55:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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50 nz points

Member: VAA's posse

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 1:08:18 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

For various reasons I have never filled out a census and I am old enough to get money in the mail.
I live in a pretty remote area...closest paved road is 2 miles and the closest power line is 6 miles away.
So for the last two census no one showed up to count me.
A few months ago I found a guy in a 4wd driving across my property. Turns out he is with the census bureau and is out in the middle of the desert with his gps marking any habitable dwelling. His gps was working off of what looked like a google map but he had a pic of me and my place and he said he was just there to verify my existence and did I have any sort of address because all he had was a parcel number from the tax assessors office.
So far I have not recieved a census form and no one has been to visit.
whazupwidat?


I sincerly hope that said person did NOT get any personal info.  Scammers and spoofers are taking advantage of the good graces of most (not you, pahunkboy - LOL!)  Americans.  I really don't think the locators were out that early.  Here's the link to see how legit this guy was.....  http://www.census.gov/geo/www/maps/CP_MapProducts.htm

These are the FREE maps developed by the locators that we Census Enumerators are using.  Check if you're on there.  If not and would like to be added to Census maps, I think there's a way to do so, once you get to your CD - Census District.  If you ARE listed on the maps, there should be LCO phone # (Local Census Office.)  They can tell you if you "visitor" was legit.

CM me and I'll help you follow-up if you're willing to share PII with me.

FBI might be verrrry interested in anything you can tell them about your "visitor," but it's your choice as to where you want to "go" with this.

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 5/4/2010 1:12:54 PM >

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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50 nz points

Member: VAA's posse

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 7:49:19 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		So....if they see my place, but don't catch me home, or get scared of my husky and walk....I still get counted with a REF?

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 8:08:20 PM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

LANCE HUGHES HAS BEEN TRAINED AS AN ENUMERATOR.





Please, for Christ's sake, wear the leather when you go door to door!


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 8:32:44 PM   
LadyMondenschein


Posts: 88
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline 		WE;"RE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE! 

All's I can say is that I certainly hope that I don't encounter someone who's got FAVA beans simmerin' on the stove and a nice Chianti chillin' in the fridge. fshuhfshuhfshuh (that's the closest approximation I can come to spellin' that noise that Hannibal Lecter made).



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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/4/2010 10:24:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So....if they see my place, but don't catch me home, or get scared of my husky and walk....I still get counted with a REF?



Ten years ago, I was visiting some friends on their remote piece of property in Washington (state) when the census guy showed up. When I say "remote," they would describe Thompson's place as "down by the road." He had been looking for them for two days. He was a nice enough older guy in a 4WD. More importantly, he seemed to understand just the sort of risks he might be exposed to up there, and what the rules were.

My curiousity isn't going to be satisfied by hearing about the training. I want to see the thing working. We have an administration with a strong desire for the government to be running things. Ok. Here is something for them to run. Go out there and count all the people. This has to be a lot easier than healthcare, right? It's almost like the scene in Gran Torino, where Clint has the neighbor kid go count the birds in the tree, just to get rid of him, and see if he'll actually follow directions.

This might be a real shock to some, but I didn't support the candidacy of Barack Obama for President. I'm very leery of giving power to smart people with a head full of grand ideas, and no practical experience. Here is a chance for him to prove me wrong, or at least buy some slack. If this is done quick, cheap, accurate, and drama free, I'll even vote for him in '12, if the Repubs put up a fundy. If it's a Mike Charlie Foxtrot that goes way over budget, taking Congress away from him becomes even more important.

There are people here much better at math than me. Anybody got what the death rate for census enumerators would be with six traffic fatalities in a week? (I guess it doesn't say anywhere in the training manuals that stop signs in Texas are red octagons with white lettering, and they mean "that bigass truck has the right of way, Stupid!")

This whole endeavor can be seen as a test of the Obama Administration's competence to run a federal program. Unless they want to suggest they had such trouble finding good people because of No Child Left Behind, this can't be blamed on Bush II. I want to see how they handle it.

They do seem to have a few true believers among the ranks. Those often help.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/4/2010 10:27:37 PM >

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 6:18:51 AM   
ElyssaBeck


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/31/2009
Status: offline 		The "doorknockers" as you call them are not to report any anti-anything. We are just getting a head count for those who forgot to mail in the form. Nothing else. It helps support Local, City and State Governments with choosing how many house of representative members each state gets, plus how much Federal Government Money each state will get. They are not there to harass anyone or report any anti situations. 

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 6:29:33 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm sure the conspiracy lovers are going to have fun with the part about the census doorknockers being trained to report any "anti-government sentiment" they might encounter.


I'm sure they will, but they'll have no reason to (not that that ever stops them anyway.) The article's poorly worded, but even so, it doesn't say enumerators are being trained to report "anti-government sentiment." What it says is they are being trained to report any sign of "hostility from homeowners expressing anti-government sentiment or other potentially dangerous behavior." Not the same thing, although the article could have made that more clear had it been written by a reporter who actually showed up for class the day they taught journalism in journalism school.

The only thing enumerators are trained to report - in fact, the only thing they are even allowed to report - is anything they perceive to be a reasonable threat to their personal safety. If they witness a crime in progress, they are not even allowed to call 911 to report it. To do so is potentially a firing offense. There is absolutely no way in hell enumerators are being trained to "report possible anti-government sentiment."



Being trained to report "anti-government sentiment" is not the same thing as being trained to report "any sign of hostility from homeowners expressing anti-government sentiment..."? That's got to be one of the, if not THE, most blatently ideologically/politically biased statements I've ever seen.

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 7:36:49 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So....if they see my place, but don't catch me home, or get scared of my husky and walk....I still get counted with a REF?

I was actually hoping one of the census people would answer this for real.

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 7:43:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

My curiousity isn't going to be satisfied by hearing about the training. I want to see the thing working.


Rich,

In 1960 and 1970, my parents took care of census forms. In 1980, I don't know if I got counted or not. I was moving about, place to place, state to state. In 1990, I don't remember getting counted either. Perhaps I forgot. In 2000, I already explained the mess, and in 2010--well, we at least know security is tight over getting a form, and the physical census taker still has time to show.

I wonder about political manipulation in these things, but in the end, just want to be sure I get the representation I'm due. We lost a seat in the last redistricting, creating that ridiculous snake of the 23rd.

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 8:25:45 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So....if they see my place, but don't catch me home, or get scared of my husky and walk....I still get counted with a REF?

I was actually hoping one of the census people would answer this for real.


No, a "REF" is only used if someone actually refuses to answer a question. If you're not home, the enumerator just notates that nobody was there. That way, they know to come back. If they're scared of your dog, they make note of that, and discuss it with their supervisor. Then, as a supervisor, I might go and check it out myself, or we'd contact a neighbor and ask them for the information, or call you on the phone, or something along those lines.


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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 8:45:01 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm sure the conspiracy lovers are going to have fun with the part about the census doorknockers being trained to report any "anti-government sentiment" they might encounter.


I'm sure they will, but they'll have no reason to (not that that ever stops them anyway.) The article's poorly worded, but even so, it doesn't say enumerators are being trained to report "anti-government sentiment." What it says is they are being trained to report any sign of "hostility from homeowners expressing anti-government sentiment or other potentially dangerous behavior." Not the same thing, although the article could have made that more clear had it been written by a reporter who actually showed up for class the day they taught journalism in journalism school.

The only thing enumerators are trained to report - in fact, the only thing they are even allowed to report - is anything they perceive to be a reasonable threat to their personal safety. If they witness a crime in progress, they are not even allowed to call 911 to report it. To do so is potentially a firing offense. There is absolutely no way in hell enumerators are being trained to "report possible anti-government sentiment."



Being trained to report "anti-government sentiment" is not the same thing as being trained to report "any sign of hostility from homeowners expressing anti-government sentiment..."? That's got to be one of the, if not THE, most blatently ideologically/politically biased statements I've ever seen.



Well, here's where some basic 3rd-grade reading skills would help you out. Let me break it down for you. I'll try to keep it simple.

First of all, the article does not say that enumerators are being trained to report anti-government sentiment. It says they are being trained to report hostility, or any potentially dangerous behavior. They are trained to report situations that make them fear for their personal safety, not people's political opinions. Are you genuinely unable to read that and tell the difference? If this is still too complex for you, let me know which part of it is sailing over your head and I'll try to simplify it a little more.



_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 8:50:24 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

I'm very leery of giving power to smart people with a head full of grand ideas, and no practical experience.


How much experience did Lincoln have?

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RE: The enumerators are coming! - 5/5/2010 8:54:48 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There are people here much better at math than me. Anybody got what the death rate for census enumerators would be with six traffic fatalities in a week? (I guess it doesn't say anywhere in the training manuals that stop signs in Texas are red octagons with white lettering, and they mean "that bigass truck has the right of way, Stupid!")


You've got to be kidding. You're saying that the fact that 6 people who work for the census were killed in traffic accidents, and some of them ran a stop sign, is somehow a sign that the Census operation is a fuck-up? You can't possibly be serious.

And if that's not what you're saying, why even bring it up? What's the point? People get killed in car accidents no matter who they're working for. I distinctly remember people getting killed running stop signs when Bush was in office too, that incompetent bastard.




quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
This whole endeavor can be seen as a test of the Obama Administration's competence to run a federal program. Unless they want to suggest they had such trouble finding good people because of No Child Left Behind, this can't be blamed on Bush II. I want to see how they handle it.



And how do you expect to measure success or failure, and assign accountability?


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 40
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