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herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (5/7/2010 12:42:32 PM)
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RealOne: No there is the appearance of some dumb assed kid scared of his own shadow playing rambo on his video game. Thats what I saw and my version was blurry as shit youtube and I could see there was no threat.
What happened is that you saw the video, and pulled out of it what you wanted to pull out of it.
I've watched it again, this time recording certain events to demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about with regards to this film. You even admitted that the video quality was poor. Based on what I saw, you had guys demonstrate hostile intent to the helicopter.
If this were a normal media group, they'd have no fear, or point their weapons, at a helicopter representing a force that's not out to get journalists. The Anti Iraqi Force didn't have helicopter assets... so why even assume an engage contact with a helicopter, then continue to keep the helicopter in your sights, with a launcher in your hands?
This is the appearance of soldiers doing what they should've done given the circumstances in that area... the man with the launcher hiding behind the corner making like he was going to shot the helicopter down... and given that there was a major operation going on in the area where this incident took place.
A curfew was in place, and a ground assault was taking place in that area. The journalist would've been smart to move with coalition assets, and not move around with the guys that eventually got shot.
RealOne: You fucking people are so fucked up you start seeing things just for an excuse to waste people because you have a license to murder with impunity.
Again, there was positive ID of hostile intent, see the above narrative on the guy with the launcher. They acted the way they were supposed to act in an operation involving a ground assault in that area.
RealOne: Well a fucking stick would appear like one to a rambo idhit now wouldnt it
Go back and watch the vid, it definitely shows AKs and a launcher.
RealOne: How dare you question my ability to read the same video you got the crystal clear version of and I could see there was no threat. Who the hell do you think you are? You pretend I heard this from media and I watched the fucking video and was franklyu shocked that this kind of slaughter goes on.
Given what I've seen, and described above, I have every right to question your ability to read that same video. I got my interpretation from the same piss poor quality video that you watched. Your claims clearly don't match what's demonstrated in the video. There was a clear hostile intent.
Who do I think I am? Someone that has combat deployed to Iraq, and someone that knows what's going on there outside what's portrayed by cherry picked videos.
RealOne: Then when they were down they made damn sure they were all dead with what 2 more salvos.
Wrong. If you watched the video, you'd notice that they stopped shooting, and refused to shoot the wounded man while he was unarmed. It wasn't till the extra people came in that the shooting began. Had that van stayed out of the way, both the occupants and the wounded man would've escaped additional bullets.
RealOne: Then when people tried to rescue the one person who was not dead you fuckers killed all them too.
Hmmm, curfew, and attempts to rescue the wounded and weapons. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going on here.
RealOne: I suppose they had rpg's stuffed up there asses right?
Nope, one was in clear view in the video. Anybody that claims that there wasn't an RPG launcher is pulling stuff out of his/her azz.
RealOne: They zoomed right in on the littel kids in front.
No, wiki leaks did that during their analysis... the pilots were focusing on the adults.
RealOne: Stop pretending I got this from some news source
Hard to see that, given that your explanations fall under the conspiracy theory side of the house.
RealOne: and man up to the fact this is worse than fucking Nazis.
Again, don't mistake your unqualified opinion as a "fact," because it isn't. These guys acted according to the rules of engagement that they had in place. I'm not manning up to the product of someone's paranoid, conspiracy theory driven, interpretation of the tape.
RealOne: Yeh I know the routine but again there was no threat, just some dumb shit trigger happy rambo kids opinion of the "appearance" of a threat.
No, you don't know the routine, as painfully demonstrated by your posts. If you watched the video, as you claimed you did, you wouldn't be arguing your opinion that there was no threat involved.
A man showing hostile intent, as I demonstrate above, doesn't constitute being an "opinion" that he's a threat. You show hostile intent, then you're going to be treated as someone showing hostile intent.
RealOne: Like how to the iraqis do that carry a fucking sign on the back saying hey I am not hostile while some tard on his video game is playing "GIT SUM"?
The bonehead with the launcher screwed the entire group over. But even then, they could've lowered their weapons on the ground, and raised their hands over their heads in a clear sign of surrender. The pilots wouldn't have engaged them had they done that. The knucklehead that watched the helicopter should've ordered the group to surrender, thus show no hostile intent.
RealOne: There was not threat. there was no implied threat
Sorry, but when someone with a launcher stares at you, then shifts position to keep you in sight, that's a clear indication of a threat... the video didn't capture the fact that someone in the group fired, or gunshots were fired/heard, which lead the pilots to engaging the group.
RealOne: and the shit you talk about aint the reports I am getting back and I believe the people over that I know I can trust to give me the straight skinny not someone who justifies wholesale murder.
Time for a reality check:
"I have talked to more than a few vets coming home and most have stories similar to yours." -Kana
This is a story that's occurring across the US. We, the US military, can't all be wrong on what most of us observe while on the ground in Iraq.
Which begs the question, the quality of your sources. There's a very good chance that they're not privy to what's going on in Iraq as much as we are.
RealOne: Bullshit. good sounding bullshit but bullshit none the less. There are no rules that predicate you crawling up their asses so close they can take you out.
Ever do mounted patrols in Iraq? Mmm, let me answer that.. NOPE. Because if you did, clumped up trash, dead animals, newly repaired potholes, are located on the road that you're driving on, the road brings you there, and you're not aware that these things are in place prior to getting there... so you got to swerve around to avoid them.
RealOne: Its a clean sweep operation and we both know it.
Don't assume that we both agree, and see, that the scene in the video is what you say it is. Because I'm not in agreement with you. Please don't insult my intelligence with such attempts at comparisons, as that comparison disregards that fact that I have experience in the topic of this argument, and you don't.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
RealOne: "before they got there" unclear and no danger present. I would say that too if I fucked up eh? didnt show up on the recording. Are we like talking super man or what?
To use your analogy here, I didn't show up anywhere in that vid. Since I wasn't in that vid, I don't exist. Starting to see how ridiculous your, "it wasn't in the vid, it can't be true!" comments come across to a critical thinker?
If you paid attention to the conversations in the video, you'd notice that this helicopter was part of a larger operation going on in that area, a ground assault. When this happens, there's a curfew in place, meaning if you're out and about, you're a target. It works out to where the people that are out and about during the curfew are usually "crawlers," or leakers, people trying to get away from getting captured, thus crawl from one area to another to avoid capture... or "leak" from a building or area being cleared.
You're narrowing your understanding of the situation to the video... as filtered by your biases, emotions, and tendency to buy into conspiracy theories. I'm seeing this in the larger context that this is taking place in.
RealOne: oh so the us military informed all the iraqis that they wont get slaughtered if they keep their arms down right?
The Anti Iraqi Force know what to do to surrender. I never said anything about keeping one's arms down to avoid getting shot.
RealOne: How the fuck do you know?
Hmm lets see... during that one dismounted patrol that I did, I stopped my scan to focus on a man in a building... I focused on the window to the room the man was in.He saw me, put his hands up, walked outside with his hands up, and a smile on his face, to indicate that he wasn't a hostile.
Things like that are how I fucking know that they know what to do to indicate that they're not hostile, and they know how to surrender.
RealOne: they didnt have their arms up
Nope, big mistake on their part. Indicate surrender, and you won't have the appearance of hostile intent... especially if you're out and about during a curfew.
RealOne: and that is the posture if you wanna take out a helo.
The posture involving keeping the helo in your line of sight, adjusting accordingly as the helo moves, straining to keep your eyes on the helo, given that you have a launcher in your hands? Then you move to point it? Yup.
RealOne: No rpgs or anything that even looked close to an rpg. No weapons.
Then watch the video again, you could clearly see weapons, and an RPG launcher.
RealOne: Armed? Yeh right thats why they had to waste every motherfucker that came near them including the rescuers so the story would stick.
Armed, as indicated in the video, during a curfew, in an area where a ground assault was taking place. Not to bright for them to be up and about... should've been nominated for the Darwin Awards.
RealOne: Dont jerk me and try to play me for the fool man.
You need to do what you preach here, as that's precisely what you're trying to do with your posts.
RealOne: again there is no record of gunfore on the tape.
If you watched the tape, you'd notice that you only heard what was coming from sources in the helicopter. The communications with higher headquarters, the communications with the ground elements, and the rounds getting released.
You didn't hear noises that originated from outside the helicopter, or outside the camera's view. You do realize, that the pilots had 180 degree panoramic view, which increased to 360 as they circled the engagement area, do you? That's a bigger view than what the camera was giving.
If you've ridden a military helicopter, you'd notice that there are more noises than what you just heard in the tape. The pilots heard something that the tape didn't capture, point blank.
RealOne: There was no fucking launcher.
Watch the tape, you'd see the launcher.
RealOne: Bullshit there were no weapons and no resemblemce to weapons.
Again, watch the video, watch it carefully, without your biases against the military.
RealOne: Great story man! Bravo! great performance. One problem you wasted a bunch of real reporters and kids not insurgents so your story is bullshit and you have no way out but to man up.
Man up to what? To a disillusioned interpretation to what's going on? The only way to deal with your conspiracy theory is to discredit it, not to man up to it's misguided conclusion.
These men acted according to the rules of engagement in place during the time captured by the video.
Common sense dictates that you don't show hostile intent towards the US military in a combat zone, in the middle of combat operations, when the Anti Iraqi Force doesn't have helicopter assets. And you definitely don't violate the curfew that's taking place when a ground assault is taking place. The reporter indicated that he understood the danger that he was in, yet did nothing to mitigate the risks he'd face. Like I said, he should've been nominated for the Darwin Awards.
The only bullshit that I'm seeing here is the conspiracy theory that your posts are spewing.
I have a better idea... how about manning up to the fact that I know what I'm talking about, based on first hand experience of how we do things in Iraq, compared to you and your conspiracy theory sources of information... which aren't exactly organic to Iraq?
RealOne: again I seen no threat the tape has no gunshots as claimed.
Again, you need to watch the tape, and understand that the tape didn't record sounds coming from outside the helicopter... sounds the pilots would be privy to and not you.
RealOne: Oh I wont mistake your bullshit cover for truth either and you can believe it.
Don't mistake the facts that I provide you as "bullshit," and don't mistake the bullshit you're feeding me as "facts." It doesn't help your case a bit given how our past experiences relate to a discussion about the Iraq War.
RealOne: Hey fuck you with your terrorist bullshit. Im not scared. I have more fear of the fucking reatard pdychopaths coming back than I ever will of the people over there. I heard enough bullshit in the last 10 years to last me 5 fucking lifetimes.
HENCE, your true feelings about the US military surfaces. If your post were a dissertation, this statement would be your thesis.
If you have more fear of the US troops than you do of the terrorists, or feel no real fear of the terrorists, then I challenge you to live among them... walk the walk instead of talking the talk here.
RealOne: Yeh I read you loud and clear pal.
Your claims of what I said in previous posts don't match what I actually said so no, you didn't read me loud and clear.
RealOne: yeh you could be my kid junior.
Get REAL, you need to post with the demeanor of someone older than me before you claim that I could be "your" kid.
RealOne: It shows the only solution in your mind is waste them.
No, it shows that if you indicate hostile intent to the US Military, you're liable to get shot and killed. That's a message that our enemies read loud and clear.
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