RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court

RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 8:19:20 AM)
She is also on very good terms and quite good friends with Justice Kennedy.

OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 8:58:16 AM)
Glad you enjoyed it and found it useful. Greenwald is one of a handful of writers I really respect because he cares about issues more than party or personality. In particular, on civil liberties he applies the same critiques to Obama he applied to Bush. I'm a firm believer that issues ought to take precedence over tribal loyalties. That's one of the things, incidentally, I respect about Conservatives like Pat Buchanan. Though some of his views both repel and repulse me, he was criticizing Bush from the Right long, long before that became fashionable. His commentaries on Obama have some additional traction in my mind because I believe there's a good chance he'd say the same thing about the same policies if they originated from his own party. There's always some degree of partisan politics involved in punditry but I respect the writers who make a good-faith effort to move beyond talking points and official positions and consider what's really happening closer to the bone.

domiguy -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:10:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrpheusAgonistes The cherry on the Kagan Sundae, of course, is that she's a past consultant for Goldman Sachs. I don't see how her limited contact and pay supplied by Goldman has any bearing on any of this. Why should this be considered to be "The Cherry?" From 2005 through 2008, Kagan was a member of the Research Advisory Council of the Goldman Sachs Global Markets Institute. The group met once a year and she received a $10,000.00 stipend. Whoooopiddy-dooo! Does this really constitute "cherry" material....Seems more like a bit of peanut at the bottom of the bowl.

popeye1250 -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:33:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Gawd, she looks like my brother,... the Teamster. Who's he going to hire next, Susan Boyle? How's about that lady with all the snakes in her hair, she must be looking for work! He could put her in charge of tourism! It appears that you feel that justices for the supreme court should be chosen like beauty conteatants instead of for any intellectual capacity that they might bring to the court. Let me guess, "a nationwide search!" " A brilliant legal scholor", right?

thompsonx -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:38:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Gawd, she looks like my brother,... the Teamster. Who's he going to hire next, Susan Boyle? How's about that lady with all the snakes in her hair, she must be looking for work! He could put her in charge of tourism! It appears that you feel that justices for the supreme court should be chosen like beauty conteatants instead of for any intellectual capacity that they might bring to the court. Let me guess, "a nationwide search!" " A brilliant legal scholor", right? Make up your mind do you want a brilliant legal scholar or some hawtie?

Musicmystery -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:42:07 AM)
Sitting next to Scalia, though, will help anyone's appearance.

OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:43:14 AM)
I stand by "cherry." It's a decorative, highly visible, not particularly relevant fact. It's not a reason to oppose Kagan. It's more like "Oh. Another middle-of-the-road, corporate friendly Democrat. I wonder if she ever took money from Goldman....yup." The reasons I wanted Obama to nominate someone else have nothing to do with what you (correctly) point out seems to be a fairly shallow, "money's on the dresser, babe" style relationship with Lloyd "God's Work" Blankfein. I'm mostly concerned with (what there is of) her record on civil rights and civil liberties, which seems to be geared toward a continuation of the Bush-Obama policies on surveillance, privacy, and indefinite detention for enemies of the state. The fact that she is apparently much loved, and her views much lauded, by Conservative judicial activists who are actually acquainted with her is further cause for alarm. Not even the Wall Street Journal seems to be able to get too upset about her.

Musicmystery -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:51:13 AM)
Don't worry. Republicans will oppose her anyway.

popeye1250 -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:55:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrpheusAgonistes I stand by "cherry." It's a decorative, highly visible, not particularly relevant fact. It's not a reason to oppose Kagan. It's more like "Oh. Another middle-of-the-road, corporate friendly Democrat. I wonder if she ever took money from Goldman....yup." The reasons I wanted Obama to nominate someone else have nothing to do with what you (correctly) point out seems to be a fairly shallow, "money's on the dresser, babe" style relationship with Lloyd "God's Work" Blankfein. I'm mostly concerned with (what there is of) her record on civil rights and civil liberties, which seems to be geared toward a continuation of the Bush-Obama policies on surveillance, privacy, and indefinite detention for enemies of the state. The fact that she is apparently much loved, and her views much lauded, by Conservative judicial activists who are actually acquainted with her is further cause for alarm. Not even the Wall Street Journal seems to be able to get too upset about her. Yeah, that's not good, a "Wall Street friendly judge."

OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:58:07 AM)
They'll have to, for a number of reasons. There will even be a few Republicans who will make a spectacle of the nomination process. The party always needs to rally its base and it always needs to go on the attack just so that it can put Obama in the position of having to defend himself. All of that's a given. But they won't filibuster. They won't drag things out too long. Deep down, the brighter and more aware members of the party will know that they got off easy, again. The loudest, most boisterous, most abrasive Congress critters on the Right will be reined in pretty quickly by the grown-ups in the party because, all things considered, Kagan is a gift and they need to save up their political capital in case there ever comes a time in the future when they need to be even more recalcitrant in their obstructionism. Added: A friend just forwarded me this http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/96909-gop-uses-thurgood-marshall-to-attack-kagan . It's the GOP's first attack on Kagan and it kind of takes me by surprise. It's absolutely going to be perceived as race-baiting, which I thought the GOP (on the national level) was trying to avoid by subcontracting as much racial rhetoric as possible to state/grassroots operatives. Comparing (what I know of) Kagan to a real hero like Thurgood Marshall is laughable to me--but I wonder if it will be effective with the Republican base at painting Kagan as "OMG Liberal!"

thompsonx -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 9:58:39 AM)
quote: Yeah, that's not good, a "Wall Street friendly judge." Just how many of those black robed asshats is not "wall street frendly"?

OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 10:06:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Yeah, that's not good, a "Wall Street friendly judge." Just how many of those black robed asshats is not "wall street frendly"? Yeah. As things stand, anybody who isn't fairly "Wall Street Friendly" just isn't allowed to join in the reindeer games by either party. A few investment banks are more/less underwriting the entire political system and subsidizing the lifestyles political operatives enjoy so much. Political insiders (and high court nominees are necessarily adept at playing politics) are not lining up to bite the hand that's feeding them.

popeye1250 -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 10:19:37 AM)
So in other words they're taking Graft?

OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 10:23:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 So in other words they're taking Graft? I don't want to derail this thread, but I'd argue it's more like Wall Street is doling out the allowances to the political class and, if they break curfew or stay up too late or don't do their chores (like voting for deregulation and then voting for bailouts when deregulation leads to collapse on an epic scale) then that allowance can very easily be cut off and our elected officials don't have gas/beer/reelection money.

AsmodaisSin -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 10:33:34 AM)
As a conservative, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt. Until I've had time to research her to the fullest, I would like to think that as much as I dislike Obama, he's not out to do us wrong.

belladevine -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 10:45:13 AM)
This woman is very intelligent. I am disappointed that so many are quick to jump on her less than betty boop appearance. She has come out strong in defense of the don't ask / don't tell gay policy. She doen't want military recuiters on her Harvard campus and that's great! I think she values HUMAN RIGHTS and that's important to me.

thompsonx -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 11:58:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 So in other words they're taking Graft? You have an uncanny grasp of the obvious

Mercnbeth -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 12:32:41 PM)
quote: From 2005 through 2008, Kagan was a member of the Research Advisory Council of the Goldman Sachs Global Markets Institute. The group met once a year and she received a $10,000.00 stipend. Whoooopiddy-dooo! "piddy-dooo"? Do you have an idea what its like to be part of a group like that? The agenda of the meeting, as well as the meeting itself, is irrelevant. Was is relevant are the dinners, lunches, remote gatherings, and corporate retreats which come to you as unreported 'perks' as a member of the 'Board'. The cash stipend is the equivalent of the 'goodie basket' given out at the Hollywood - many of the recipients don't care or consider it and its often donated for a tax write off. When you form a Board of Directors, you have two goals. One is to bring in outside "expertise" to maximize business profits. The other is for making contacts to get, and give, information. Personal fortunes are made, and losses prevented, from these exchanges. Conversations about other businesses shared during the cocktail hour before dinner starting with; "Did you hear about...." are worth $10k. I'd PAY $10k for similar access to the Goldman inner circle. Being a Board Member defines "insider". "Cherry"? Hell - it illustrates why since 'McCain Feingold' every elected official defines their served constituency as either being listed as a 'Fortune 500' Company or 'Forbes List of the Wealthiest US Citizens'.

DomMeinCT -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 1:06:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: belladevine This woman is very intelligent. I am disappointed that so many are quick to jump on her less than betty boop appearance. She has come out strong in defense of the don't ask / don't tell gay policy. She doen't want military recuiters on her Harvard campus and that's great! I think she values HUMAN RIGHTS and that's important to me. You do realize she's Jewish, right? Knowing that, does her religion trump your feelings about how she values human rights?

Archer -> RE: Elena Kagan, pick for the Supreme Court (5/10/2010 1:29:35 PM)
Roast her good on the hot seat then give her an up or down vote. Although I wouldn;'t be too upset if they lord the fillibuster over President Obama for a short while to get the hypocrite card some traction. (Senator Obama was a filibuster proponent for judges.)

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