RE: agnostic or atheist?

RE: agnostic or atheist? (Full Version)

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eyesopened -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 4:58:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catfightservice Its "Lakota" Nation, not Lacota that was starting to bug me. Im familiar with native american spirtituality, and Im a big fan. "What the uck does fetish have to do with it?" Well in my experience so far the people of the fetish world seem open minded, intelectual, and free spirited. So I was curious to get everyones atake on religion. You say "We're not that special" I disagree. I think we are special. We are all being honest with ourselves and doing something we like. I think we are sort of enlightend.* First, thank you for the spelling correction... it's still pretty early even for me. Okay... maybe we are special in the way that we are sort of enlightened and free spirited.. At least I'd like to think so but if that were a fact why would there be a "What is a Master?" thread nearly once a month that goes on for page after page? lol... I guess there's no proof of our specialness but that each person finds their own way. That's good enough for me.

rulemylife -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:07:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirrandpolyfam I don't believe that eyesopened should share her story with you because it's personal. Her road to God is a personal journey. Why should she share her story with you when all your going to do is pick at it and try to pull it apart? You weren't a part of her life. Did you witness anything in her life? Nope. Did you witness anything from the bible? Nope. So my guess is your still going to be the same unbeliever you are now... just without wasting her time. Soooooooooo.....................let's sort this out. It is personal but not so personal that it is shared on a public message board. It is just personal when that message is questioned?

eyesopened -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:15:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened But you are being contentious and you love to badger me about this and I won't play your game. You first asked why I am certain and now you ask me for proof. There are a plethora of things in science of which scientists are certain but have not yet proved. Evolution from amino acids to modern human... Go on. Give me proof. There isn't any direct proof but it is something of which we can be fairly certain. Something more simple. I am certain that my Master the most wonderful man on this planet. How could I prove this to you or anyone else? And why would I ever be asked to? No, I don't love to badger but you posted a controversial statement and now are getting upset when I asked you to explain it. There is direct proof of evolution but too many do not take the time to investigate that proof and then make the erroneous assumption that it is somehow based on scientific "faith" when the two terms are contradictory. As for your last statement it really has no relevance to the discussion. What you believe about someone you have feelings for is not remotely related to being certain there is a God. God is a Spirit I have feelings for. It is my relationship with my God. It can never be yours any more than my relationship with my Master could be yours. How do you not understand this. And yes, you do badger me about this. You want a relationship you must make your own. Please direct me to the proof of our evolution from amino acids all the way to modern human. Please! I will make the time. Really. Unlike you, I do not say it isn't true, I'm just saying there is no proof that shows mutation by mutation how amino acids evolved into humans.

eyesopened -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:18:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: sirrandpolyfam I don't believe that eyesopened should share her story with you because it's personal. Her road to God is a personal journey. Why should she share her story with you when all your going to do is pick at it and try to pull it apart? You weren't a part of her life. Did you witness anything in her life? Nope. Did you witness anything from the bible? Nope. So my guess is your still going to be the same unbeliever you are now... just without wasting her time. Soooooooooo.....................let's sort this out. It is personal but not so personal that it is shared on a public message board. It is just personal when that message is questioned? I have answered and you don't like the answer. Come over this Friday (I have the day off) and I will be more than happy to have a long discussion with you. But in interest of the OP and time. You are right! There is no God! There cannot be because there is no proof that you could ever accept therefore you are the sole decider of what is and what is not. Happy?

sirrandpolyfam -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:20:03 AM)
I'll repeat. Because you missed the point. You don't believe in the bible because you were not their to witness these events. You were also not present in her life to witness what made her believe in God. It's her life and her truth. Much like you've had your own life and your own truths. You obviously don't have the same truth or beliefs as her. So even if she were to get her views written here in plain english you would not understand nor get the point. As I've had to repeat myself here. Start seeking your own path. Go read the books I suggested. Florence Scovel Shinn is free and only 99 pages which is much smaller than the bible. You could have that read before the morning is out, but my suggestion is you read it again and again until it makes sense. And it is personal.. otherwise she'd share.

sirrandpolyfam -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:25:16 AM)
Have faith. We all have heard the saying. "I'll believe it when I see it." When the saying should be. "I believe, therefore I see." Do you have faith?

rulemylife -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:39:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened God is a Spirit I have feelings for. It is my relationship with my God. It can never be yours any more than my relationship with my Master could be yours. How do you not understand this. And yes, you do badger me about this. You want a relationship you must make your own. I understand it. What I don't understand is the certainty. It's one thing to say you believe God exists but quite another to say you are certain God exists. quote: Please direct me to the proof of our evolution from amino acids all the way to modern human. Please! I will make the time. Really. Unlike you, I do not say it isn't true, I'm just saying there is no proof that shows mutation by mutation how amino acids evolved into humans. I'm sure Tampa has a few libraries but if you don't want to make the trip there is a wonderful thing called the internet.

eyesopened -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:53:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened God is a Spirit I have feelings for. It is my relationship with my God. It can never be yours any more than my relationship with my Master could be yours. How do you not understand this. And yes, you do badger me about this. You want a relationship you must make your own. I understand it. What I don't understand is the certainty. It's one thing to say you believe God exists but quite another to say you are certain God exists. quote: Please direct me to the proof of our evolution from amino acids all the way to modern human. Please! I will make the time. Really. Unlike you, I do not say it isn't true, I'm just saying there is no proof that shows mutation by mutation how amino acids evolved into humans. I'm sure Tampa has a few libraries but if you don't want to make the trip there is a wonderful thing called the internet. I am certain my God exists. I don't just believe. I am certain. That my God doesn't exist for you is not a problem for me. In order to even have a meaningful discussion, you would have to think outside religion, scripture, and religous texts. If you were willing to think beyond barriers, I could possibly have an enjoyable discussion. The invite stands. I have searched. There is no absolute proof that could possibly link the first amino acids to form on this earth and a mutation by mutation genology to go from those acids to modern human. There isn't even bone evidence to get to modern human. The "missing link" has never been discovered. I am also certain that evolution took place but there simply is no absolute proof of how modern human evolved. But without faith, conjecture, belief, and a thirst for knowledge, nothing would ever be proven. Gravity existed and was known long long long before Newton "proved" it.

rulemylife -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 5:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened I have answered and you don't like the answer. Come over this Friday (I have the day off) and I will be more than happy to have a long discussion with you. But in interest of the OP and time. You are right! There is no God! There cannot be because there is no proof that you could ever accept therefore you are the sole decider of what is and what is not. Happy? I'll come over if you feed me and and have plenty of beer. [8D] As far as being the decider you are mistaking me for the Connecticut Texan. I will accept proof however. Do you have any? Because I would be thrilled to know there is an omnipotent being that is looking out for my welfare.

cpK69 -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 6:11:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife It's one thing to say you believe God exists but quite another to say you are certain God exists. makes note to self; must quit saying 'believe' and start saying 'certain' So it be written...

rulemylife -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 6:25:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirrandpolyfam I'll repeat. Because you missed the point. You don't believe in the bible because you were not their to witness these events. You were also not present in her life to witness what made her believe in God. It's her life and her truth. Much like you've had your own life and your own truths. You obviously don't have the same truth or beliefs as her. So even if she were to get her views written here in plain english you would not understand nor get the point. As I've had to repeat myself here. Start seeking your own path. Go read the books I suggested. Florence Scovel Shinn is free and only 99 pages which is much smaller than the bible. You could have that read before the morning is out, but my suggestion is you read it again and again until it makes sense. And it is personal.. otherwise she'd share. Gee, I sure wouldn't want you to have to repeat yourself. How silly of me not to have accepted what you believe the first time you told me how true it was. I have sought my own path, which is in direct opposition to yours. This is my problem with the religious. I don't claim to know the truth, but you folks are certain that what you believe is the truth. It's the epitome of narrow minded thinking.

thishereboi -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 7:34:21 AM)
quote: I dont mean to offend anyone of any religion. Of course you don't[8\|] You just want to debunk that book that they use to form their belief system and talk about what kind of an idiot would believe that crap. Good luck with that and don't be surprised when people are offended. That's what happens when you call someone an idiot. Even if you say that's not your intention.

thishereboi -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 7:41:38 AM)
quote: Well in my experience so far the people of the fetish world seem open minded, intelectual, and free spirited. And that somehow makes you think they must not be religious? So you are saying that being an atheist makes you more intelligent that religious folks? Do you worship at the altar of brian? Are you this bigoted against other things or just religious issues?

RCdc -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 8:07:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catfightservice Well in my experience so far the people of the fetish world seem open minded, intelectual, and free spirited. So I was curious to get everyones atake on religion. You say "We're not that special" I disagree. I think we are special. We are all being honest with ourselves and doing something we like. I think we are sort of enlightend. Well, you just debunked your own theory by showing intolerance. Besides, those that practice a religion or spiritual path are doing something they like. quote: I mean who seriously believes noah built an ark to hold two of every animal? Come on!!! <snip for blah> How many of their other beliefs can we debunk? So no, just because a person practices BDSM or any fetish, does not make them any more enlightened. These forums are full of intolerent and bigoted ideas. And you profered an example. the.dark.

bondmaid123 -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 8:41:29 AM)
Chiming in as another idealogical atheist (although I recognize that really... at best... we're agnostic, because nobody ~truly~ "knows"). And I would disagree about "us" as a sum total group being enlightened. [>:] If only.

Aneirin -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 9:21:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catfightservice Ill start off by asking how many others are agnostic or atheist out there? Im guessing in the fetish world there is quite a few. Myself...I think the bible is a great story, but i dont believe it. I mean who seriously believes noah built an ark to hold two of every animal? Come on!!! we couldn't even do that today. Imagine with hand tools? Part the red sea? jonah and the whale? tower of babylon? God created the heaven and earth? what about themillions of other galaxies, who made them? The bible doesnt talk about dinosaurs. Some people put so much faith in the bible, but keep this in mind. When they wrote that book they still thought the earth was flat. How many of their other beliefs can we debunk? I dont mean to offend anyone of any religion. Id just like to get the facts straight. Despite all attempts at logical reasoning for or/and against, I feel there is something, something which defies the logic and that something has become my spirituality, a spirituality that has no definition out there save my own, and that is constantly changing as I discover and consider more. I encompass influences from many different beliefs as I do have a sneaky suspicion that this truth we all seek is scattered amongst all beliefs and for enlightenment,we have to take all to find the way ahead. So atheist, agnostic, sometimes, pantheistic and monotheistic sometimes, eastern belief and western belief, sometimes, I just have to say I am everything and nothing, but it is for me to define my own path when the mood takes me. I wonder about the Vimans of ancient India and modern UFO's, I wonder about ooparts and recorded mythologies, some of which bear a striking resemblance even when science tells us the cultures were always apart. I wonder about the pyramids, the ever so precise mathematics and technologies we believe were available at the time. I wonder about the baghdad batteries and descriptions of primitive accumulators and the writings of Ezekiel. One thing I have discerned, is what we know of our world is very little and the histories defined or assumed might not be the truth or even a fraction of it, we simply do not know enough, have found enough or understood enough. It's a bright world of discoveries out there for those that seek.

LaTigresse -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 9:26:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened Why do so many people believe in only one God and that that God has to be the one (or more) that was depicted in one of the Bibles? I am not an atheist. My God bears some resemblance to one of the Gods talked about in the version of the bible but also resembles the Great Spirited told by the Lacota nation or even the Orisha and many others. So what the fuck am I? I don't believe the Bible (any one of them) is a literal "word of God" but I am certain that God exists. And what the fuck does fetish have to do with it? We're not that special. This.

asiansubmissie -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 9:40:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Riiiight. What's a cubit? Jewish here. What IS a cubit?

rulemylife -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 10:05:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirrandpolyfam Have faith. We all have heard the saying. "I'll believe it when I see it." When the saying should be. "I believe, therefore I see." Do you have faith? Do you have common sense? "I believe, therefore I see." Remember the saying about putting the cart before the horse?

eihwaz -> RE: agnostic or atheist? (5/11/2010 11:02:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: asiansubmissie quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Riiiight. What's a cubit? Jewish here. What IS a cubit? I think it's either a brand of candy or some type of puzzle game.

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