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Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 3:18:11 PM   
catfightservice


Posts: 59
Joined: 10/7/2009
Status: offline 		Curious to see how many people are independents here. Did anyone look at the independent candidates in the '08 election? I voted Nader/Gonzales. There so much ridicule about third party candidates. The saying is a vote for a third party is a throw away vote. Or why vote third party, they never have enough of a percentage to win. Myself I vote for who I believe in no matter what they are polling at. I believe this country needs a progressive independent candidate. Im putting together a list of progressive individuals for the enlightened people of the fetish world to review.

Ralph Nader/ Matt Gonzales
Dennis Kucinich
Ron Paul
Alex Jones
Gerald Celente
Jesse Ventura
Cynthia McKinney
Bob Barr
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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 3:22:52 PM   
SohCahToa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catfightservice
The saying is a vote for a third party is a throw away vote. Or why vote third party, they never have enough of a percentage to win.

This is more than a saying it's a reality.

Although a popular independent can win, what that independent can then get done (with no party ties) is limited.

People are pragmatic about their politics.

< Message edited by SohCahToa -- 5/13/2010 3:24:15 PM >

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 3:27:02 PM   
catfightservice


Posts: 59
Joined: 10/7/2009
Status: offline 		Well in this wonderful country of freedom we are all entitled a chance at becoming the president right? Even th e last horse at therace track still stands a chance. So why not bet on him. The pay off might be good. I hear what you are saying about not having political ties. Thats why weshouldvote in more independentsall the way around.

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 3:36:02 PM   
SohCahToa


Posts: 563
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		What you are fighting against is not only the reality of how people vote the way they do but the perception that they always will vote like they do because it's the only realistic way to vote.

They call this in programming 'an infinite loop', I believe and it results in permanent indecision.

I think you need a popular movement to change this reality and that doesn't start with the wishes of one individual.




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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 3:39:00 PM   
Real0ne


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because insanity always does the same thing and expects different results.


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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 4:10:18 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		In my opinion...an independent is just that.  An Independent.  The cause varies, the inclination towards a specific belief varies, as it should.  That is the beauty of being an independent.  You don't support this thought or that because of the party its coming from.  You support it because you believe it. The closest independent that had any chance at all was Ross Perot.  And thats because he was a billionaire and was ready, willing and able to spend all his money on his campaigns.  He even bought TV time to try to let the general public hear his points of views.  All it did in the end was force Perot to part with some of his money and the nation reverted back to what it knows.  I agree more with SohCahToa. You need a popular movement for people to jump on your bandwagon.  And you need money...alot of money (which admittedly can be raised by and thru the people who are in that movement, if its big enough and organized enough).  And you need lobbyists to fight for you, because despite what everyone thinks about lobbyists, they are what keeps causes alive and living and well.

Just as an aside, too.  I don't know if its the way it is in every state, but if you're a registered Independent in the state of Florida, you aren't allowed to vote in a primary election.  That is reserved for only democrats and republicans.  So, sorry to say (and I am sorry to say it too, because I do believe if we had more choices, we'd have better representation, but I only go by my theory there, because I've never known it any other way), but again, sorry to say, the world of politics (for now, in America) is dominated by republican or democrat.  And there isn't much serious room for any others.  Yet.



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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 6:00:21 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catfightservice

Curious to see how many people are independents here. Did anyone look at the independent candidates in the '08 election? I voted Nader/Gonzales. There so much ridicule about third party candidates. The saying is a vote for a third party is a throw away vote. Or why vote third party, they never have enough of a percentage to win. Myself I vote for who I believe in no matter what they are polling at. I believe this country needs a progressive independent candidate. Im putting together a list of progressive individuals for the enlightened people of the fetish world to review.

Ralph Nader/ Matt Gonzales
Dennis Kucinich
Ron Paul
Alex Jones
Gerald Celente
Jesse Ventura
Cynthia McKinney
Bob Barr



Me too!
I'm a Nationalist and a Populist.
To my mind if you vote "R" or "D" you're throwing your vote away. Why vote for either of the two parties that have gotten us into the mess we're in?
You'd be voting for failure!


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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 8:46:43 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Im a registered green

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/13/2010 8:58:45 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I enjoy being right in the middle on most issues, I am a Moderate.
As far as I am concerned, all of the political parties are sell outs, and have
sold "the people" down the fucking river.
So on a good day, it's a toss up.

Many issues I tend to agree with the left, and a few I agree with the right.
 
I am not sure if being a "Moderate" qualifies me as an Independent, but
I am certainly an independent person no matter how you want to categorize me.

In the perilious times we are living in, I wish more people would look more at the issues,
and less at political parties.
If everything collapses, we all go down together, no matter what party you are affiliated with.
These days, with the real possibility of a world wide economic collapse, if the house of cards begins to fall, it won't matter which party happens to be in the driver's seat at that time.

< Message edited by Marini -- 5/13/2010 9:03:03 PM >

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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 12:22:51 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Marini, if you're registered as "unenrolled" or " not declared" then you're an Independant.
The only thing is you have to "declare" if you vote in the primaries. I usually get a democratic ballot.

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 3:39:10 AM   
catfightservice


Posts: 59
Joined: 10/7/2009
Status: offline 		Yes of course we need a massive movementtoget an independent elected. The sad part is evenif we did thecorporations wouldget a hold of himand pay im of just like they to to Rs and Ds.

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 4:05:50 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Welcome to the world of politics. There hasnt been, nor ever will be, a politician who has not been bought in some form or fashion by some entity with their own agenda, that may or may not be contrary to the needs of the republic.



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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 4:11:17 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Libertarian. Republicans want to control your sex life.  Democrats want to control your money, and they don't really stand up for individual rights.  Both sides are in favor of censorship for different reasons.  

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 4:45:41 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Marini, if you're registered as "unenrolled" or " not declared" then you're an Independant.
The only thing is you have to "declare" if you vote in the primaries. I usually get a democratic ballot.


I am "registered" as a Democrat, sailorman.

But, I look at the "issues" much more than the party.
Neither party has the balls to seriously address most of the issues I feel are important.
That is why neither party cares if we end up with 100 trillion undocumented people in this country, among other issues.
 
You know how I feel about what has transpired in this country over the last 30 years.
Bye Bye Ms. American Pie, I think I will add that to my signature line soon.

Bye, Bye Miss American Pie; Outsourcing is Tantamount to Slavery

< Message edited by Marini -- 5/14/2010 4:46:07 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 5:02:08 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

In my opinion...an independent is just that.  An Independent.  The cause varies, the inclination towards a specific belief varies, as it should.  That is the beauty of being an independent.  You don't support this thought or that because of the party its coming from.  You support it because you believe it. The closest independent that had any chance at all was Ross Perot.  And thats because he was a billionaire and was ready, willing and able to spend all his money on his campaigns.  He even bought TV time to try to let the general public hear his points of views.  All it did in the end was force Perot to part with some of his money and the nation reverted back to what it knows.  I agree more with SohCahToa. You need a popular movement for people to jump on your bandwagon.  And you need money...alot of money (which admittedly can be raised by and thru the people who are in that movement, if its big enough and organized enough).  And you need lobbyists to fight for you, because despite what everyone thinks about lobbyists, they are what keeps causes alive and living and well.

Just as an aside, too.  I don't know if its the way it is in every state, but if you're a registered Independent in the state of Florida, you aren't allowed to vote in a primary election.  That is reserved for only democrats and republicans.  So, sorry to say (and I am sorry to say it too, because I do believe if we had more choices, we'd have better representation, but I only go by my theory there, because I've never known it any other way), but again, sorry to say, the world of politics (for now, in America) is dominated by republican or democrat.  And there isn't much serious room for any others.  Yet.




Would be interested to know why you think that Independents should be able to vote in Primaries? That is if you do believe it. Primaries are for the parties to pick candidates , key word being parties and if you arent in a particular party then you can't vote. Seems only right to me

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 5:14:45 AM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Well, if you're an independant, and wanting to get one dem or repub on the ticket over another, that would be one reason.  Granted, they don't have a loyalty to any one particular party, but they do (or should) have a vote.  IMO

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 6:00:37 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		I claim no party affilliation whatsoever.  I vote based on issues. 

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 7:49:20 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Well, if you're an independant, and wanting to get one dem or repub on the ticket over another, that would be one reason.  Granted, they don't have a loyalty to any one particular party, but they do (or should) have a vote.  IMO


If the independent could vote in the primary, why have one?  Let's just have a big general election with 20 people.

When you choose to list as an independent then you understand by doing so you are giving up voting in any party primary.

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 8:02:59 AM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

If the independent could vote in the primary, why have one?  Let's just have a big general election with 20 people.

When you choose to list as an independent then you understand by doing so you are giving up voting in any party primary.



We all know a primary decides which democrat or republican runner is going to be nominated.  So, while I do understand it is a decision made by registered dems or repubs, its a decision that is inclusive to only those specific parties.  It leaves no room for an independant to choose, if they wish to, which runner they want.  Its not an accurate account of the representation ALL voters wanted come time for the big election.  It's only a consensus of what repubs or dems wanted voted in...as if we can only be one or the other....or keep yer trap shut.

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For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: Republican, or Democrat? Why not Independent? - 5/14/2010 8:16:39 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		We have a party system.  Why should anyone outside of either party decide who should win their primary?  If your so interested in the party candidate then register.  Don't complain because you made the choice to leave yourself out. 

You have whatever voice you wish in the general election.

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