RE: Why people don't join groups (Full Version)

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roughleather -> RE: Why people don't join groups (4/8/2006 10:25:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Why don't I go to munches?  Because they're fucking boring, frankly. 


Very true. In the SF scene, "munches" play a very minor role. Nobody serious goes to them.



thetammyjo -> RE: Why people don't join groups (4/8/2006 10:56:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Why don't I go to munches? Because they're fucking boring, frankly.


Very true. In the SF scene, "munches" play a very minor role. Nobody serious goes to them.



Really?

I ran one here in Bloomington and in Manhattan (NYC) for many years.

I found them a very nice way to make friends without the stress of having to play or dress up. I also like to reach out to new folks.

I got burnt out on the role of hostess and stopped being the hostess. I still liked seeing people and meeting people though so I continued to go for a while until the tone of the munches changed into something that I consider inappropriate for such venues.

I really miss them. It was a place I could go and be myself without having to "put on some show" or dress up. It was a place where my entire kinky family could go and chat and be accepted.



carolsea -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 7:46:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

Hey carol!!!!  {{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Good to see you here!

YIK,
- Geoff


Hey, Geoff!!!  Good to see you too, as always!

I haven't read this thread in a long time and so just now saw your reply!!  Running a group ain't easy, is it?  [sm=whiteflag.gif]

Carol



carolsea -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 7:59:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


Very true. In the SF scene, "munches" play a very minor role. Nobody serious goes to them.



Really?

I ran one here in Bloomington and in Manhattan (NYC) for many years.

I found them a very nice way to make friends without the stress of having to play or dress up. I also like to reach out to new folks.

I got burnt out on the role of hostess and stopped being the hostess. I still liked seeing people and meeting people though so I continued to go for a while until the tone of the munches changed into something that I consider inappropriate for such venues.

I really miss them. It was a place I could go and be myself without having to "put on some show" or dress up. It was a place where my entire kinky family could go and chat and be accepted.


I agree, tammyjo!  There's only one "munch" I go to, and that group has  been around for many years - one of the first BDSM groups in this area (Charlotte, NC).  We love going to see people we don't see often, since we have so many groups now, we have to choose between them sometimes.  When I first entered the lifestyle/community 7-8 years ago, it was the only group active, and it was really hard to wait month-to-month for the event to come around again.

It's a great place for new folks to come and meet some people before they go to something less vanilla.  An excellent venue for meeting a prospective partner in a nonintimidating setting.  It's like the reunion of a growing family every month!

Carolsea



CrappyDom -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:17:49 AM)

This was a much more constructive thread than I expected, it is nice to see all the heartfelt comments.

It is my experience the scene (in San Francisco and Sacramento) self selects for a certain type.  Most are not monogamous, most are into flogging, and only a few are ones you would choose to socialize with outside of the scene, most are not physically attractive in the conventional sense.

In addition, most of the scene is not overly conducive to D/s play (for the snobs and such, I have seen "play" that is more intense than anything you can imagine so lay off the holier than thou crap) for a variety of reasons from, "I don't want her kneeling on THAT floor" to it just being a place for social butterflies, etc.

Of course there are exceptions to the above, thus the use of modifiers like "most" rather than "all" so again, don't get your panties in a bunch.

In addition, many come looking for a bit more fantasy, a bit more "eyes wide shut," "Roissy," "European house" sort of thing and are assaulted with the worst of suburban mediocrity and assembly line playspaces.  Odyssey puts on some of the largest parties in the bay area with 100s of people but they always feel like a convention to me rather than something special and sacred.

I actually started a group focused around providing a more exotic atmosphere that catered first to D/s play and secondly to S&M play.  It sort of worked, the group I started has gone in a different direction and another group has picked up where I left off and has really created rather divine events.

Anyway, people leave the scene because they don't find what they want.  If you like playing with lots of people, creating a social life out of S&M, the scene will fulfill you.  If you want something else, it is harder to find it, especially in smaller communities.

That said, my time in the scene has been highly educational, provided a great deal of opportunities to grow, and I think anyone who avoids spending at least SOME time going to events is foolish.  I am always wary of people who say they have vast experience but it is all in private play.  Like travel, playing or at least being in the scene broadens the mind in a very good way.



CrappyDom -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:22:02 AM)

As an aside,  I am going to work with a group I am involved with to create some advice to give new people to help them orient themselves into a munch and a play party better.  The group currently does intros about a 1/3 into the much, they have a private orientation into the play space, but I think there is some real food for thought here I am going to try and distill into some concrete actions.



candystripper -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:27:37 AM)

quote:

Maybe they don't return because they do not like the experience, just because you enjoy it does not mean that others will.
Myself, I have very little real interest in public BDSM-related events, just not my thing. I suspect that since only a part (no idea if it would be the greater part or the leeser) of the BDSM community would want to attend public functions, and that our community is pretty small overall to begin with, 100-140 regulars is pretty good.

Saraheli


i know of only one group in my city resembling the Op's, and from what i have been given to understand, it is undergoing some sort of turmoil/power struggle, etc.  Some P/pl who once belonged have told me they have stopped attending due to this.  i can tell you the group does not respond to email or phone messages asking for a call-back, and it would be damned difficult for me to find out when and where and why T/they are meeting.  Not imposssible, probably, but discouraging.

i agree with Saraheli in that i've never fully understood the value these kind of groups might have for me.  Yes, i want to meet other BDSM'ers in my city, and have found an "Ohio Room" to chat in on another site which has already, in just two weeks, allowed me to meet two very nice people i hope i'll see again. 
 
However, i'm not tremendously interested in attending a seminar on, say, the proper use of a whip, as i intend to learn from my One and am submissive, so will not be whip-wieldling anytime soon.  Similarly, i have no interest in observing public play -- much too shy at least for now. 
 
There are two nightclubs in my city which allegedly sponsor "fetish events" and i am greatly curious.  i have "0" idea what i'd be letting myself in for and might be out the door pronto, but i want to at least go see.  i recently met a switch who has kindly offered to escort me to one when His time permits.
 
candystripper 



CrappyDom -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:28:42 AM)

Oh, and having been to SF bay munches, one sees very "serious" people along with very silly people who's play is intense enough to terrify most people so not sure I could agree with the statement about munches.

Oh, and if you don't like one, start your own, make it what YOU want of one.  Personally, I don't like to complain that others haven't made something interesting enough for me, I am just not that lazy or toppy.



KatyLied -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:31:17 AM)

People may shy away from munches when weird things happen.  I was a first time attender at a munch a few months ago.  It was a dinner/talk munch.  Early in the munch a member was paid $1 by everyone present to walk around the room topless.  It certainly wasn't what I expected to see when I decided to try the munch.  Will I return?  I'm not sure.



fastlane -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:33:50 AM)

gives a whole new meaning to "the dollar menu."[:D]



MstrssSatin -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:36:53 AM)

I have to agree on the clique theme. I have been to one munch and one slosh here in Indianapolis. Although everyone was polite and welcoming it was obvious that the majority "knew" each other intimately. I particulary did not like the going around the table introducing ones self and listing fetish/scenes/toys likes and dislikes. Also on the local group sites..for the most part if you disagree with someone or have an unpopular opinion you run the risk of having your head bitten off!   I actually prefer speakers/presentations and conferences to sloshes/munches. 



LaTigresse -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:51:43 AM)

IF there was any sort of group or event that was near where I live that was convenient for me to go visit I most certainly would.
Would I become a regular card carrying member and attend all events, probably not.
I have not had good experiences with any sort of organized group/member type thing. There always seems to be someone "in charge" that tries to dictate their philosophies. There always seems to be a select clique of members that are the "cool and in" ones that coinsidentally include the ringleader, annnnd there always seems to be the odd antagonist that wants to knock the ringleader off their perch because THEY know more. Then there are the satelite wannabe's trying to weasel into one clique or another and never quite suceeding. Usually much plotting and subplotting, back stabbing, gossiping and general nastiness. None of these things are particularly attractive or enjoyable to me. It all reminds me of high school and also the church I grew up in. BLECK!!!!!!!!
All in all since my motivation in the whole lifestyle is more personal and relationship oriented, I would love to attend some gatherings to get to know some of the people I have come to really enjoy on here, BUT it would tell one hell of an amazing organization to seduce me into becoming a full time, regularly attending, member.



candystripper -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:53:49 AM)

quote:

It's a common problem in the groups that I know of in the area.  My feeling is that people don't care about any of the important stuff, the training and skills and relationship information and discussion.  They just want to play.  We have play parties, but that's not our main focus, and there are other places for that.

carolsea


Maybe i misunderstood you, and if so, i apologise in advance.  However, no one but me and T/those whom i choose to take advice from know what is and is not important to me regarding my growth as a submissive, my search for my One, etc.
 
i have a Master friend who is very active in a large city's group, and who has described the "seminars" and "discussions" to me as technique-oriented.  How to safely use wax.  How to flog with different type floggers.  Etc.  To me, these seminars hold no interest inasmuch as i expect my One, should i find Him, to know what He's doing and go no further.  It's a matter of privacy, trust and personal preference.
 
candystripper



Lordandmaster -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 8:56:28 AM)

I see the value of seminars like that (if nothing else, they can give you some ideas to think about), but basically I agree with candystripper.  Being whipped by your master is not the same thing as being whipped.  The right way to be whipped is the way your master wants you to be whipped.



Najakcharmer -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 9:42:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Why don't I go to munches?  Because they're fucking boring, frankly. 

Very true. In the SF scene, "munches" play a very minor role. Nobody serious goes to them.


*snickers*  Speaking of cliqueishness and elitism, here's a classic example.  Not everyone necessarily enjoys social dinners with other scene folks, but what you seem to be saying is that anyone who does is automatically "not serious".  I call bullshit.  I've seen a *lot* of very well respected scene folks at Munches who would think it was pretty fucking hilarious to be labeled "not serious" by some random yahoo on the Internet.

Being part of the leather community does have its benefits.  For starters, there's always more to learn from other people.  Safety information, demos on new and interesting toys and techniques, and seeing what works on a day to day basis (and what doesn't) for other BDSM couples in healthy and sustainable relationships.  That's valuable stuff, and nothing to sneer at. Unless of course you take the "I already know it all, I don't need to learn anything from anybody else" attitude.

The community isn't perfect.  Some areas of it are less perfect than others, either because there's too high an asshole percentage there, or the specific culture doesn't agree with you, or you find it boring just to sit around and talk with other people in the lifestyle.  If you don't want to participate, then don't.  A lot of good people don't, because they're too busy, too far away, or because they aren't overly social by nature.  But in my experience, actively sneering and deriding the people who do find value in socializing says a lot more about your personal issues and attitudes than it does about the community. 




KatyLied -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 9:48:39 AM)

quote:

To me, these seminars hold no interest inasmuch as i expect my One, should i find Him, to know what He's doing and go no further


A little instruction can't hurt.  Don't assume your one will know what he's doing, just because he labels himself as Dom.



Najakcharmer -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 9:50:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn
I know for me that I attended two munches in my area before deciding not to attend anymore. I really felt like I was an outsider, and I was completely ignored during both attempts I made to integrate myself. I'm not reclusive, and I certainly tried, but I discovered I was dealing with cliques that didn't believe they were just that.


I think that's just standard group dynamics.  I had the same thing happen to me in SCA and Pagan groups.  Basically when special interest groups have their get-togethers, everybody is delighted to see their old friends and acquaintances, and naturally they want to spend their time talking to their friends.  This isn't a deliberate snub so much as people being normal people and wanting to be with their friends.  So a newcomer can get ignored and spend most of the event alone with no one to talk to.

If being part of a group is worthwhile to you, if your interest alone keeps you coming back because of what you can learn there, then it's worth sticking around.  If not, it might not be worth sticking it out until you make enough friends in a group that there will be people there who are glad to see you and who want to talk to you. 

Some groups make an effort to welcome newcomers, with varying degrees of success, but it's a narrow tightrope to walk because too much "welcoming committee" can make people feel pressured, and too little can make them feel ignored.  A lot of it depends on the individual and how good a fit they are with the social atmosphere and expectations of a given group.



agirl -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 10:27:34 AM)

I've been to munches, fetish fairs/socials with and without *play* in the past and although I enjoyed them for what they were, they weren't something that I would highlight on my calendar. I found that sitting around with people that I have little in common with, besides a tenuous link to an *alternative life choice* a bit unedifying.  Having said that, there were people that attended that obviously got a great deal from meeting up in this way regularly.

Some people just aren't *group* people and don't operate well in those scenario's. I'm more comfortable with *one on one* but now and then I have an urge to be more sociable. Once that itch is scratched......I return to my former hermit state.

agirl

edited due to poor editing



Lordandmaster -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 10:45:12 AM)

Well, roughleather can speak for himself, but this sentence reveals a lot about the disconnect between "scene folks" and the rest of the BDSM world.  God save me from "well respected scene folks."  If I'm going to talk to someone, I want to talk about something that matters, not about the latest kangaroo-hide singletail they just bought at Dark Tower Fetish Shoppe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

I've seen a *lot* of very well respected scene folks at Munches who would think it was pretty fucking hilarious to be labeled "not serious" by some random yahoo on the Internet.



candystripper -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 11:10:48 AM)

quote:

Well, roughleather can speak for himself, but this sentence reveals a lot about the disconnect between "scene folks" and the rest of the BDSM world.  God save me from "well respected scene folks."  If I'm going to talk to someone, I want to talk about something that matters, not about the latest kangaroo-hide singletail they just bought at Dark Tower Fetish Shoppe.

Lam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

I've seen a *lot* of very well respected scene folks at Munches who would think it was pretty fucking hilarious to be labeled "not serious" by some random yahoo on the Internet.


i have a earnest question.  Where does the idea come from that those of U/us who do not attend munches, spanking parties, dungeons, etc. are somehow "deprived" "uneducated" or "not real"?
 
candystripper 




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