RE: Re: Why people don't join groups

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iliv2servher -> RE: Re: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 2:56:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iliv2servher quote: ORIGINAL: Whiterabbit0117 Why do most first timers never return? They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again. Is real too scary? Was their curiosity sated? Did the subs not fall at their feet? or ?? There can be a variety of reasons why people do not return. 1. They have satisfied their curiosity and it's not for them. 2. They are high-profile and do not wish to be outted. 3. Participation requires too much of their time (not a priority in their lives). 4. They don't like belonging to groups. 5. They're "civilians" who just walked in off the street and want to share a pizza with someone. I have been a core member of our local group for nearly 9 years. I've seen people come and go, and for the most part, cannot remember the names of those who not longer attend. I've known people who not only show up at muches, and come to play parties and social events, and even host them. All of a sudden they completely disappear from the group. Maybe they are going through a divorce or a death in the family. Who knows? Who can predict why people drop out? I can only speak for myself, in that I've always been open and honest about my particpation. Slightly off-topic but still pertainent: What I started out saying...and what I still believe today is...that when a group becomes too political for me I will simply opt out of it. I detest both leaders and followers. The munches and other social events should be a group effort. The person hosting these events has the right to make rules and the responsibility to enforce those rules, as well as to take the flack if anything goes wrong. Otherwise, there are no leaders or followers.

slavejali -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 3:05:18 PM)
Just a suggestion. I don't know how this could be arranged if you didnt have any RT friends who would be interested in going with you first time but if it could be arranged, the best way to merge into a group ive found is to be part of a group to begin with, your own group. That way you wouldnt feel isolated to begin with, you can converse and interact with your own friends while sharing the new experience together. Perhaps the way to do it at first, if you didnt have any RT friends you could drag along with you is to arrange just to have a coffee with some people you meet online first, not just one person, a few people, then when you attend a function event, you already know people...it would take the intimidating factor away. I know the first time I walked into a club, I had 3 gf's with me. We had an amazing time...those gf's never ever entered into a Master/slave relationship but they had a fun night, I suppose they saw it like going to an amusement park. Maybe my thoughts are contrary to how other people see it..but I think going to a club would be less confronting than turning up at a munch. Being at a club has its advantages, you can hide if you want to, or participate as much as you like....but take your own rent-a-crowd if possible. Master says there are clubs over in the States he would never go to, they are just filled with young people dressing up, being part of a fad and the "look at me and how different I am" syndrome..but there are good ones too...so you might have to shop around a bit for one that suits you. Just cause you go to one and dont like it, dont let it color your judgement of how they all are. I dunno..I'm 40 cough now..I have to admit my tastes of what I find enjoyable have changed..I'm not into the trendy scene anymore..I dont think I would get the same buzz outa going to club as I once used to... you can only see so many demo's before it all becomes.......bla-zay. For me right now the perfect way to socialise would be within an intimate group of people with like minds, going to dinner, out to shows etc..I just dont know how the whole bdsm themed social event for me would work anymore...but that could be just because Ive been out of touch for so long...or maybe its cause Ive been there and done that and I'm just in a different phase of my life...who knows.

Najakcharmer -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 3:16:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: candystripper i have a earnest question. Where does the idea come from that those of U/us who do not attend munches, spanking parties, dungeons, etc. are somehow "deprived" "uneducated" or "not real"? I dunno. As I said in my post above, there are a lot of good people who don't attend Munches because they're too busy, or not social by nature, or what they want from a social group doesn't coincide with any of the locals. What I object to is the characterization made by roughleather that "nobody serious goes to Munches". There are good and serious people who aren't part of the social scene because it doesn't suit them for whatever reason, and there are good and serious people who do happen to enjoy socializing with other BDSM folks and who appreciate the benefits that the community can offer. There are also people who lurk around the edges of the BDSM scene, sneering at people and deriding the community, sticking their noses in only long enough to grab a new femsub and immediately isolate her so that she can't talk to anybody else to get a reality check about safety and abuse. I mean, they will take her away from the bad influence of all those "non serious" people who go to those boring fake Munches. Is everyone who happens to be non socially inclined a predator and abuser? No, but I do get worried about people who actively discourage their partners from communicating with other people in the BDSM community, or who completely deny the value of education from community events on safety and technique.

Dollbecky -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 3:30:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth You may be amazed but I've discussed many, I never recall the particle acceleration subject coming up, of these subjects you identify as "important" at lifestyle functions. I have but that's because my partner is getting his PhD in physics and one of the long-timers in the scene is a physics consultant. Hey snap!!! me too He was in the kitchen chatting about black holes and anti matter all night while I was playing :)

Najakcharmer -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 4:11:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster global warming, inconceivable liberation, Darfur, the Civil War, why the best particle accelerators are all being built in Europe, whether people who lie are happy, why no one reads contemporary philosophy, is the Slingbox as amazing as people say, and, oh, let's not forget U.S. energy policy In short, intelligent conversation on interesting topics. While I've been to a few events where the intellectual caliber didn't impress me, I've been to many more where it genuinely did. quote: There's more, but "useful books on various kinky how-to techniques" isn't on my list. If they're genuinely useful books, I can buy them on Amazon anyway; I don't have to go to a munch for that. So learning interesting new things from chatting with people who are experts in a particular field holds no interest for you? To each their own, but I do find it both entertaining and educational to pick people's brains on subjects that they know well enough to write books about. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl ....sometimes from people that have decided that attending or taking part in those type of things RESULT in reality, realness, education or any other type of state in between ..... often a case of judging by their own standards. It doesn't really make any difference..... if a person is convinced that that is how you become real etc..they tend to stick with that notion. "Real" is not a well defined word when it comes to our lifestyle, and not one I like much. "Educated" has a much clearer definition. While it is possible to "learn by doing" and by reading, there are distinct benefits to observing and learning firsthand from other experienced players. It is absolutely essential to be "real" or "educated"? No, but there is a lot of benefit to be gained from active and continuing education in safety and technique. You may not choose to avail yourself personally of those benefits, but don't try to tell everyone else that they don't exist or aren't worth anything. Or worse yet, that you are somehow "not serious" if you enjoy and appreciate those benefits.

sharainks -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 4:41:53 PM)
At times it depends on the structure. I had gone to several meetings of groups in my state and then went to a new one with some friends who were members. It was their policy to have any new attendees sit at a table in front. Ostensibly that was so people could greet them. For me it isolated me from the people I came with and I felt very uncomfortable being put on display. I didn't go back. I didn't enjoy the evening. It was awkward and hardly a welcoming feeling. Sharp people often pick up on undercurrents in the group the first night and choose not to come back. For others its the cliques people tend to get into.

MistressMelissa -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 5:01:40 PM)
Personally, while a Munch may bore me at times, I would not be where I am today if not for my local Munch. When I was first invited to a Munch I had already been doing bondage and reading books for 20 years. I started self bondage at age 12 and at 18 discover bondage magazines and a few books like the story of "O". When the internet finally arrived, I was found by the host of the local Munch. I attended that first event and met some wonderful friends. Over the years I have met many more wonderful and interesting people. I have also met some that I would be happy never to see again, but I still learned something from them. People grow and so do groups. Some groups get stuck at a certain level. I have the local Munch to thank for introducing me to the world of Ds and the girl that has worn my collar these last 3.5 years. Yes, Munches have their core groups of people and sometimes they loose track of the others that are there. It's up to the Host or officers to keep it all in balance. As an officer now of that Munch (my way of giving back) we try to keep the public meetings very casual and open for our new members. We meet in a private room at a restaurant and arrange the tables into one large table to make everyone part of the group. We average 20-30 but peak to 40 peple. If a topic needs to be addressed or discussed we will take an hour to do so but most of the meeting is kept very casual. We hold two public meeting a month, one on a weekend and the other on a week day to meet our members work schedules.Once a month we rent a local club and have a private rsvp play party and demo. These parties are themed and include a meal. While I don't often play in public these days, I have learned a lot by watching the technique of others. Sometime I will see something that I will later incorporate into my own bag of tricks. Mostly, I just enjoy conversation with friends. Though my contacts at the Munch I have learned about other subcultures like Vampirism, Goth, Satanism and Paganism. I have met authors and even a TV star or two. What you get out of anything depends upon what you put into it. Don't expect to show up and be handed the keys to the castle. MelissaMistress of Ds HavenCo-Host Fort Wayne Munchwww.ftwaynemunch.org www.dshaven.com

SweetEscravo -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 5:06:06 PM)
Personally, I want to get out into the local community, but I would be a deer in the headlights. I think a lot of people (myself included) are afraid of what will be expected out of them at clubs, munches or any kind of get-together. I know that personally I would have no idea how to speak to anyone, and would probably sit in the corner lol. I think it is mostly a lack of information.

feastie -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 5:12:29 PM)
I was a member, an officer even, of our local group. The group went through three sets of membership. The first membership dropped out of sight, the second took over as they were the ones posting on the listserv and planning the munches and outings...then the first group came back and demanded that they were in charge and no one asked them about ...whatever. The last incarnation of the group just got to be hard work. I got tired of the petty bs going on all the time. They were happy having munches but they didn't want to do anymore demos or have guest speakers cause someone might figure out that we really weren't the computer club. Sorry, but I think Travis Wilson and Jack Rinella were oustanding guests to have! Anyway, I got sick of it all and I quit and I haven't looked back. I don't need to belong to a group to validate who I am.

CrappyDom -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 5:46:47 PM)
What I have always dreamed of organizing is the "group for people who hate groups"...

Lordandmaster -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 6:23:12 PM)
Yeah, I'm sure that no matter what subject I mentioned, someone would have said, oh, we just discussed that last Thursday at Border's. And maybe it's even true. But that's not what I usually hear at munches. I hear about this person and that person and why they're having relationship problems and so-and-so's new singletail and someone else's roadtrip to Burning Man and what's going on with that new club that's supposed to be opening. And, you know what, once or twice a year I'd even be in the mood for that. But it gets old. Let me just add: I'm not arguing against munches. I don't believe munch-goers should be shot. Clearly SOME people enjoy munches, and they don't hurt anybody--so, God bless, enjoy the munches. I'm just responding to the general bewilderment that you often hear from the munch-going crowd: "Why don't more people come to munches? Why do they prefer to stay home in front of their computer monitors?" Well, surprise surprise, not everyone thinks going to a munch is the highpoint of the week, and we're not just sitting in front of our computer monitors. quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble Our last munch started at 3 PM. Some of the topics discussed: Coffee vs Tea Philosophy/Religion/Spirituality Star Trek/Dr. Who Books Ren Faires Fencing/Sports in general Politics/Iraq, Iran & Israel Drinking & playing Gas Prices & economy in general Relationship dynamics Piercing, flogging, irritants, our local play spaces, BDSM in general Pro Doms Camping Food & Cooking Service Jobs and the job market Corporate politics & the effects on small business Art Computers Flirting

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 6:42:25 PM)
I don't go to munches because they bore me plain and simple.

Najakcharmer -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 7:03:04 PM)
I think it depends entirely on the people involved. I lived in one area which shall remain nameless, and I participated almost not at all in the local BDSM community because the majority of the folks there did not impress me with their intellect and were not particulalry interesting to talk to. Which is not at all what I was used to finding in the local scene in the bigger cities. Here in North Carolina, I've actually been very positively impressed with the intellectual caliber of the folks I find at Munches and parties. I've spent some very pleasurable evenings at Munches discussing oncology research lab protocol, the medical management of biotoxicology cases and the proceedings from some of the various academic conferences that I follow. My career path and personal research interests actually overlap over several fields, so I can happily "talk shop" with professionals in a number of different fields that are interdisciplinary with mine to some extent. That's generally how I spend my Munches and most of my play parties too. Given a choice between a hot play scene and a really intellectually interesting conversation with someone I might learn something from, I'll generally take the conversation. Play I can get any time.

HoosierScorpio -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/25/2006 7:03:13 PM)
I think some do not come back either they meet some one that gave them a bad experience or they never go back because of it. They Afraid of some one find out what they are into because of work, family, and friends. Some get the strength to attend them but to afraid to explore it nay farther. Some end out meeting some one and get engage to some one who is vanilla. Some end up getting a new job’s and move away before the next time come’s around. Also some people are very private people and coming out into the community is a very big steps. Do not take it personal if they never come back just keep doing what you love and like in the movie you build it and they will come. I live here in Indiana and our group goes through the same thing. Some times people come and they go.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/26/2006 5:49:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Well, surprise surprise, not everyone thinks going to a munch is the highpoint of the week, and we're not just sitting in front of our computer monitors. I think everyone should go to a munch and party at least a few times just to be able to make an informed decision and get that perspective. I'm WAY out and active in the public scene, but I'm pretty picky about going to munches since I DO tend to find them boring, and often with too many smokers and not good enough food to make it worthwhile. But I think it's an invaluable experience for people in the scene.

KatyLied -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/26/2006 5:54:08 AM)
I've gone to two different munches in less than one year. I didn't enjoy either of them. The first group was welcoming, yet cliquish. The second group was welcoming, but the paid-to-be-topless behavior was off-putting. Especially when a few came up to me and made comments such as "this never happens at our munches" or "we're usually not like this". I was left thinking, then why did you choose an evening when 3 new people were in attendance to trot out this unusual behavior?

spectreandnectre -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/26/2006 5:58:42 AM)
i believe, only my humble opinion though, that alot of people are trying to remain anonymous. This lifestyle is not community friendly and perhaps a couple with children just cant take the risk of losing their children because someone makes things exactly what they aren't. Certain jobs i would imagine would also need to keep a lower profile. i also think that alot of these places are only in major cities and its possible that some of these one-timers are visiting from afar and just dont have the opportunities to get back or are not willing because what they saw or experienced did not meet their expectations.

piscess -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/26/2006 6:18:40 AM)
Maybe they were scared, maybe just felt out of place. The group I used to attend had a 'newbie' meeting every other month. It was more a question/answer thing than anything else and it drew people in. piscess

littlesarbonn -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/26/2006 7:30:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom What I have always dreamed of organizing is the "group for people who hate groups"... I can share something similar. While in grad school, I was recruited to help the Anarchy Club write its required constitution. That had to be the most fun I had ever because they didn't want any formal structure but knew if they didn't have it, they wouldn't be allowed to be a recognized organization (and thus, receive university assistance and recognition).

littlesarbonn -> RE: Why people don't join groups (5/26/2006 7:36:02 PM)
During the last munch I went to, I ended up in somewhat of a bizarre situation. Like I said, when I desire, I can be quite outspoken, but during this munch, there was a serious clique involved, and I was most definitely not part of it. The dominant women there were all pissed off because they knew there were so many submissive men, and one of them lit the fire of becoming a professional. Suddenly, the other three dominants in attendance were convinced they had to go professional, too. Now, none of them knew this but I've been involved with professional dominants most of my adult life. I know that business better than any submissive guy should ever know. And when they started spouting out some ridiculous beliefs of how easy this job was going to be, I tried to offer suggestions, thinking they were actually serious. I was completely ignored, and they just continued on with this "process" they were going to adopt about going professional. I only had to listen for about two minutes before I discovered that not only would they never succeed as professionals, but they really didn't have all that much experience as non-professionals to begin with, but because they were big fish in this little pond, they felt everything else would fall into place. During this entire dinner, I couldn't get into a single conversation with anyone. At one point, one other submissive guy who was bored engaged me in conversation, but I could tell that he was trying to leg hump a dominant woman, so I didn't even have his attention fully for more than a few seconds at a time. That's the kind of atmosphere that causes potential munch attenders to never return.

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