Internal Enslavement (Full Version)

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Surrenderwithin -> Internal Enslavement (5/14/2010 6:15:38 PM)

Not so much a question here, but some thoughts I have recently been dealing with. I welcome any feedback or thoughts others may have. I would be interested in hearing from others who may have experienced something similar.

I have known for a long time that I am internally enslaved. I realized a few things several years ago  that helped me understand just what I am. I realized that sometimes it is harder to live for my Masters happiness than it would be  to die for it... and my willingness and compulsion to do so is what defines my slavery. I have always been from  the camp of not having any limits as a slave because I believed his limits would umbrella me thus keeping me safe. I knew his dedication to moral mastery and recognized his ability and willingness to protect his property. However, when I entered our relationship I had this short list of things in my head that I considered deal breakers. He was well aware of them and accepted them as a natural and understandable part of our exchange.Recently my internal enslavement stared me in the face and shook my reality as one of those deal breakers came into play. I have spent a few weeks stunned and confused as my mind told me to walk away but my heart could not even consider the notion. I belong here with him.... and understand now that I am totally and completely enslaved to him. I now acknowledge and consent whole heartedly to there being no deal breakers. It took an almost shattered heart for me  to realize that I trust him with my heart and soul and fully comprehend his right to break it if he chooses.

So many times over the past 10 years I have thought I had reached the ultimate of enslavement only to cross another barrier, or have another wall fall to realize that there was still further to go. I stand here now feeling like I have achieved the ultimate in slavery and astounded and what I have become. Yet, I know that there is more in this sea of exchange and as I feel fulfilled fear threatens to swallow me. There was a time when i saw slavery as losing more and more of self to become a vessel to be filled with his desires. Today it occurs to me that in fact I have not been losing self rather just learning who I am. My slavery has shred the false pretenses of who I thought I was, removed the barriers I placed between myself and the world and returned me to my most natural primal self. I am his slave. Somewhere along the way I lost the choice and simply became. I once stated that as a slave the only right I retained was the right to walk away. In some way I suppose that is still  true because he chooses to give me that right. However, to call it a right is ridiculous in my opinion because although I have the " right" I haven't the ability. It is kind of like saying that I have the right to fly.... One is just as absurd as the next.

As I learn, grow, and change I become more and more enslaved.  I know who I am. I know what I am. I only wonder who I will be in another ten years?  I am not bragging that I am an awesome slave, more acknowledging his Mastery... his Mastery of me. I am merely metal in his hands waiting to be forged at his will.....

I am a slave.




sravaka -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/14/2010 8:11:47 PM)

Forgive me... but...

No one has the intrinsic *right* to break your heart, Surrender.  You choose to allow it. 

Maybe you make that decision because you trust that the ultimate outcome will wonderful, superseding the immediate pain.
Maybe you make it because you have some deep almost inaccessible conviction that you deserve no better.
And maybe you make it because you are having a relationship with your own (admittedly intoxicating) feelings of submissiveness that supersedes the relationship with the other guy.

I used to want to be you.  But I don't see how I could do it realistically without devolving into the third option above... 

What do you think?



Surrenderwithin -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/14/2010 8:59:54 PM)

At some level I choose to allow it. However, it was not until recently that the choice became a conscious one.

"And maybe you make it because you are having a relationship with your own (admittedly intoxicating) feelings of submissiveness that supersedes the relationship with the other guy."

That may have been true at one point in time, however I no longer feel that to be true. I think in the beginning it was more about me and how I felt and what I desired to achieve. That has changed for me over time. I have gone through a period of time in which I believed I was a slave simply because I could not stop surrendering to him even when I wanted to stop. Now, it is about what he wants and desires; that is truly my driving force.

Maggi



sravaka -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/14/2010 9:11:54 PM)

I'm still struck, though, that your both your posts are I, I, I?  (suggesting a fully formed and plenty assertive subject position?)

There's nothing wrong with that, of course...  but it's very different from coming here and giving a paean to him, him, him? 

"I could not stop surrendering, even when I wanted to..."    

Why?   Inquiring minds want to know (in a totally friendly non-confrontational way, I swear.  I believe I stand to learn a great deal from your views).





Surrenderwithin -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/14/2010 9:17:46 PM)

The main reason is: He believes, as do I, that the best slaves are those who spend time in self reflection and truly understand themselves. It is important to understand myself and my motivations. He has taught me  that in order to have meaningful communication I must first understand myself and what I wish to articulate. How can I give myself to him each moment of my life without fully understanding that which I surrender?What I posted here came from my journal, in which I am instructed to think on myself,when I write. I simply posted here because I was curious how others may have encountered similar lessons or situations in their personal growth and/or journey.



porcelaine -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 12:49:22 AM)

Greetings Surrenderwithin,

Congratulations on your milestone. It is always a wonderful feeling to know you've finally come home to self and found the answers that once eluded you along the way. I've enjoyed reading your musings on the thread, especially on the subject of Internal Enslavement. It is very dear to me.

quote:

However, when I entered our relationship I had this short list of things in my head that I considered deal breakers.


I had a few items that were heavily etched on my list as non negotiable. Last year they began to fall away and it was a surprise and mind blowing in some respects. I was pretty disturbed at first, because I spent a long time nurturing those ideas. I eventually realized it was never the act, but always dependent on who the act would be performed for that prevented me from saying yes across the board.

quote:

Recently my internal enslavement stared me in the face and shook my reality as one of those deal breakers came into play. I have spent a few weeks stunned and confused as my mind told me to walk away but my heart could not even consider the notion.


I've noticed a strange occurrence when the dam bursts. Other things usually follow behind, at least that's been my experience. I know I was very unsettled and quite skittish. To be honest I had other things I was wrestling with on top of this, but it wasn't planned and I needed a little time to adjust. I often asked myself what it meant. Was it a dormant or repressed truth, or did someone bring this out of me? Ironically the latter was more disturbing than the other option.

quote:

I now acknowledge and consent whole heartedly to there being no deal breakers. It took an almost shattered heart for me  to realize that I trust him with my heart and soul and fully comprehend his right to break it if he chooses.


It's truly amazing when you can ask yourself the tough questions and find the answers right before your eyes. The challenge is being able to accept it without over analyzing or running away in fear, but embracing those feelings of uncertainty and using them for your betterment. As for the pain, I think Gibran said it best, "your pain is the breaking of the shell that covers your understanding." That's the perfect analogy for what you've experienced.

In many ways, you'll never know how far within the abyss you can travel without some measure of discomfort. If the path is paved smooth and those boundaries are never threatened or tested, how can you say with any certainty they still remain? You can't. I have always believed that surrender included some element of sufferance and that wasn't negative. However, I don't promote the idea it's a walk in the park either. It hurts. But what's found beyond that pain is something worth enduring in my opinion.

quote:

So many times over the past 10 years I have thought I had reached the ultimate of enslavement only to cross another barrier, or have another wall fall to realize that there was still further to go.


That must be something in the manual that they forgot to tell us when this road began. I've had those ultimate conversations quite a few times. Now I realize it is simply the highest level of the rung I'm seated upon. Once I ascend to the next degree it all begins again.

quote:

Today it occurs to me that in fact I have not been losing self rather just learning who I am.


Yes! It's beautiful when the barriers all fall away and you realize the IE has finally taken root.

quote:

Somewhere along the way I lost the choice and simply became.


Sometimes I wonder if we use that word - choice- because what sits behind it is too disturbing to grasp. A theoretical choice if we're splitting hairs, but truthfully in name only. I think those that come to IE do so because they have no desire to have those choices available to them.

quote:

However, to call it a right is ridiculous in my opinion because although I have the " right" I haven't the ability.


This one really shook me up. The loss of ability meant the zany notions I conjured were just that. I spun that wheel faster than a hamster could ever run - because I wanted it - but I was horribly afraid of it at the same time. I don't know if I grew tired or simply realized it was time to accept what I'd been unsuccessful in escaping.

quote:

I am merely metal in his hands waiting to be forged at his will.....


The precious outcome of time well spent on the kneel. I only hope the years to come are just as expansive as the ten that have elapsed.

In Leather and Light,

~porcelaine



Surrenderwithin -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 1:30:35 AM)

Porcelaine,
Thank you...I am thrilled that you understand the bittersweetness I was trying so hard to express.
Maggi



KnightofMists -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 7:56:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I'm still struck, though, that your both your posts are I, I, I?  (suggesting a fully formed and plenty assertive subject position?)




One of the errors I believe people make is the assumption that the Self-Identity no longer exists when one reaches a place of enslavement. Some actually try to disregard their self-identity for the sake of the identity of their Master. I neither believe this to be wise or healthy for the people envolved. One can and do maintain a healthy self-identity within an M/s dynamic. But they become part of another identity that is created. The relational Identity! Many see themselves enslaved to the identity of the Master. But from my view point it is more an enslavement to the Relationship if it's going to be healthy to the well-being of those involved. The relationship becomes a significant part of one's existence. It's like two circles merging together. The part that merges is the relationship of the two or three in my case. In time, with complete merging you can't see one circle from the other but both are there you are only seeing the color of the two circles merged together. Merge a yellow circle and a blue circle you have green. Do you see yellow or blue when you look at green?. What is seldom spoke about is the enslavement of the Master that can occur in these relationships. Many Masters have a sense of responsibility over their slaves that they just can't ignore with any sense of callousness. This aspect is often to the core of who the Master is and not about what they do. Not unlike that to the core blue is at a spefic point on the light spectrum.

Alandra has been with me for some twenty years and we have been a relationship with Kyra for over 5 years. We are a different colour with Kyra merged in our life. Everything has changed but yet so much is the same. Our individuals identity (who we are) is the same.... but together we create this amazing new identity. As Master, I make all the decision about this relationship. This doesn't make the relationship about me... it's about us. It has to be about us if us is going to succeed. Regardless of the romantic and unrealistic thoughts some may try to share. We as individuals have some basic needs that must be met for our well-being and if they are not taken care of it will have a serious negative impact on themself and everyone involved with them. Consider it much like the yellow being less and less yellow. The less the yellow the more the blue will be seen in the green and with enough time the blue is all that is there because the yellow stops existing.

In my world, I seek to strenghten the individuals and make them more powerful. The yellow becomes brighter and richer like the blue. That can only result in a brighter and richer looking green. With enough time, you do tend to loose sight of where the yellow begins and the blue ends. You just see green. It's not so much of not having a choice but that it's not important to choose otherwise. Green is perfect, green makes everything right... so to choose otherwise is rather silly and maybe even stupid.



mnottertail -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 8:00:05 AM)

Ja, I'm with ya.  The simplest way to prove this out is----'who is enslaved?'  (your answer cannot be other than 'me' ) regardless of how you say it, it, the girl, the cunt ....yadda yadda yadda, it means 'me'.

Je Pense, D'onc Je Suis. 



leadership527 -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 8:54:57 AM)

Heh, much as I pretty much avidly avoid the IE nomenclature, I certainly resonate with a lot of your post. God knows Carol and I "turn a corner" every 3-4 months like clockwork *laughs*. Every time, the only thing that stops me from saying, "This! This must surely be the ultimate destination." is all those other corners.

And, as always, I agree with KoM's post.



elleX -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 10:10:51 AM)

 thanks to all the peoples that posted here,, this tread is more than intereting for me,,,
But that bring a to ask a question that comes in my mind quite often. What happen when the relation is over , i mean how does a women or a man who was inslaved internally move on after a such deep and intese relation. , how can she or he pursue happiness   after been totally owned,, how does she pick up herself, what is the responsability of a Master who have totally enslaved a women,, how would he release her and not breaking her for ever ,,
cuz we dont talk about vanilla divorce here,, it is something else ,,
i would appreciate some asnwer ,,
elleX



KnightofMists -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 10:37:10 AM)



elleX... to answer your questions.

The obvious is to hope that it will never be over. But this is not what I would consider particularly realistic since even death will bring about a sense of ending of what was. Every relationship will end in this tangible world it is only a question of how and when.

There is no easy answer or right answer on how one can or should pick themself up from such a relationship dynamic with it's ending. I think there is going to be grieving process and we all will grieve differently. I would say though that a person that is connected in an Internal Enslavement relationship with Inter-dependency is going to find it much easier than one that is engage in a co-dependency dynamic.

to appreciate the difference of Inter-dependency and co-dependency from my point of view I will continue with the idea of the colored circles. In an inter-dependency there is an internal understanding that in being yellow with his blue we made the green together that was so wonderful. But in a co-dependency... He the blue took you yellow and made you blue with him. There was never was a green and yellow no longer existed. With the lost of blue "what are you?" is going to be a significant question when the relationship is over and not just the lost of the blue. In the inter-dependent dynamic one is always yellow and can grieve the lost of green.



leadership527 -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 11:09:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elleX
cuz we dont talk about vanilla divorce here,, it is something else
Really? It is something else? What else is it exactly? I've been through a two vanilla divorces myself. Both were absolutely heart-rending. I often say that I would not wish a divorce on my worst enemy and I mean it. I see it as one of life's worst experiences.

Do you somehow imagine that vanilla people do not get tightly interconnected over the years? That it is somehow trivial to sever all those emotional bonds? I won't speak for "vanilla people", but I can guarantee you that for me personally, divorcing Carol either before or after the collaring would've been extremely traumatic. Both of my previous divorces were also. For anyone who commits to a relationship, vanilla or otherwise, undoing that commitment is very much like cutting off a limb.

Insofar as what do you do? You do the only thing you can do. You move on. You reform your mindset and life back to being single. You adapt. You do so because there is no other choice other than to wither and die. That is the hard reality of it. The master's responsibility is exactly the same as the slave's.... to do the best one can in a very, very difficult situation. Over time, the gnawing agony yields to unhappiness which eventually yields to acceptance.



startoverslave -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 1:09:15 PM)

I identifiy with you however, after more dealbreakers joined the club in my relationship, my needs were further and further from being met.  No one stays in a relationship long term without their needs being met.  Good luck



elleX -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 1:35:51 PM)

Mr Knights ,
thanks for putting things in a way that push me into reflexion  Thaks for showing in a easy to understand way, the difference between a co-dependecy relation and a Master/slave reaction , there is much difference ,, but sadly i beleive that there is also insane Master/slave relation   . Insight and honesty is so important ,, from the beginning ,,,

i also want to take the time here to thanks you for your writting ,
i held you in respect
elle X



elleX -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 1:50:47 PM)

Leadership,
i no way i wanted hurt you , but is it possible that even before you  entered a M/s relation , you alreay brought your Dominant essence into your previous relation ?  i never went through a divorce but yes i am sure it is a terrible experience ,, but i beleive that when you were enslaved to your partner ,,,it must be harder  to recover
i am not sure , emotionnaly , how many time you can enter such a deep relation,,, and i am probably talking about myself here ,,,i dont think i could make it more than once ,,,
but that is me

and about the Master  well if he enslaved a women,,, and later want to end the relation,, well,, i do believe that his responsability into the process of the termination is   Not  the same that the slave's responsability
this is what i beleive
elleX



porcelaine -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 1:52:19 PM)

elleX,

quote:

What happen when the relation is over , i mean how does a women or a man who was inslaved internally move on after a such deep and intese relation. , how can she or he pursue happiness   after been totally owned,, how does she pick up herself, what is the responsability of a Master who have totally enslaved a women,, how would he release her and not breaking her for ever ,,


I had a difficult time as one might expect. What I didn't do is go searching for his replacement. I realized I needed to work through everything that had taken place and find my center once more. I was fortunate to have a good support network and some previous experiences to draw upon. Nonetheless, nothing prepares you for this and the attachment lingers until you've finally severed the chords on all levels.

In my case I had another thing to deal with. Not only a large measure of vulnerability and hurt, but gross naivete that had to be addressed. I spent time with a mentor and we began to sift through the debris. For a long time I sincerely believed I'd never find my way back, but behind those thoughts lurked the desire to do so. I wanted to learn from my mistakes and make smarter choices going forward. So what's the end result?

I recovered and much of that was fueled by a desire to stand. I grew tired of the sadness and simply needed to move on. I can't say anger was a huge factor, but steely determination was definitely the catalyst. There were moments of doubt when I wondered if I'd ever find my way again. But they were eventually put to rest. I can never be what I was because that person no longer exists, but I'm so much more because of the experience.

Endings are a part of life. Everyone hopes for continuity but that doesn't always occur. I reached a point where I asked myself if I could be content with what I had, even if the time spent was less than I'd hoped. I've found that place and I'm very glad that I did. Its helped me put a lot of things into context. So yes, there is life before and after enslavement, but only if the girl desires to grab hold of it.

~porcelaine



LittleBroken -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 5:54:21 PM)

As a recently released slave having to recover from not only my very first submission but also internal enslavement I can tell you it is hellish trying to find yourself again and having to live for yourself again.

I'm pretty much sold on Porcelaine's advice on this matter as a woman who has obviously been in the situation and survived.  Her advice to me on this has been invaluable in helping me through some really rocky moments.

Knight of Mists,
I do get what you are saying for the most part, but the whole blue/gree/yellow allusion just comes off as psyho babble bullshit  IMHO.
But then, opinions are like bellybuttons, everyone has one.



elleX -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 8:10:19 PM)

thanks to you ladies for sharing your experiences,
i just can add that you just said what i expected for answer ,,
i have never been totally enslaved ,,,but i beleive that if this ever happen ,, it will be only once
and i know that if it end outside of my will,, i would be strong enough to move on as i was born with great adaptive capacity and knowing also that i am a * courageous * person
that said i know i would not be the same after ,,, with its good and its bad
thanks again
elleX



elleX -> RE: Internal Enslavement (5/15/2010 8:15:27 PM)

To Mr KnightofMists ,
you should have read at the end of my previous post that i have a lot of respect for you
( my english verbs need improvement )
thanks
elleX



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