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RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 7:39:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
~ Fast Approach ~

quote:

So how DO you approach a sub?


You ignore their self assigned label and, until otherwise determined, consider their 'submission' a function of a desired sensation they want to experience, usually under 'conditions'. No quantification of 'good'/'bad', 'read'/'wannabe' to that determination; but 'submission' and 'dominance' are not functions of sensations or even who is doing what to whom. Submission is a state of mind where submitting to a dominant partner could include using a 10 inch strap on him.

As a dominant, the first thing to do when approaching a self identified submissive, is to find out how they define their 'submission'.

Not that the any answer excludes a 'relationship' however it does dictate the terms. Desire to experience the giving part of painful play requires a partner who wants to submit to receiving the taking part of that pain. However if after the sensation giving and receiving is over and you want the dominance to continue and dictate manner of dress, decorum, and protocol; a different person and personality is necessary.

Like any "approach", success requires first knowing who you are and what you want. After that, any approach should have a goal of learning the honest truth from the person you are meeting. Discussions about the points of compromise, or non-compromise, should occur during the 'getting naked' period. Once you trust the representation - the resulting relationship terms and dynamic are the easy part.

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 9:49:25 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand
I don't think you need to worry TOO much that I'll forget to approach a woman as a woman; and by self-identifying as submissive, submissive women have done the grouping. What I need is a little insight into how that self-identifying group works. As a dominant man, it's not exactly second nature to me. Thanks!
I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with LP here. Your concept of "grouping" just doesn't exist. Do you have any idea how many different types of subs there are, even in broad groupings? And then from there you can start to look at individual differences.

That being said, I don't approach subs... or women... or even humans. At least, I don't do so in the sense of a hunt. What happens for me is that I go through my life and meet people. Really, when you look, they're everywhere *laughs*. Some of those people that I meet are interesting to me for one reason or another so I strike up a conversation. Or sometimes I was interesting to them so they strike up a conversation with me. The topic of the conversation will be whatever I or they found interesting. From there, things go where they do. I guess at the broad brush-stroke level, I just go through my life being me. That seems to attract women who happen to like a guy like me just fine.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 12:02:40 PM   
realcoolhand


Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
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I most emphatically do NOT want to get into a pissing contest over this, but I've begun to notice in this thread a phenomenon that I've observed in several others, which could be described as "beat up the straw-man OP" syndrome.

So far, I've gotten a lot of serious, sincere, insightful replies, and almost as many replies which suggest that (1) I don't know what I'm talking about
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth 'read'/'wannabe'
because (2) there is really no such thing as a "submissive" type.

First of all, please don't slam me simply because I'm young and inexperienced, and I've had the temerity to ask when I don't know. After all, I've gone out on a limb here, and have extended the other posters the same courtesy.

Second of all, I am not persuaded that there is not a submissive type simply because there are indisputably important differences between individual subs, or because submission can be expressed in various ways. For example, if asked to describe a chair in general terms, I might answer that it has a back, four legs, and can be used as a seat. I would not be persuaded that the concept of a "chair" is meaningless merely because someone points out that a bar stool has three legs, no back, and can be used to fend off the OP.

And by way of providing a little context, there are no clubs, munches, or other opportunities to interact in real time with like-minded folks in our small southern city, and because of my work it is very, very difficult for us to find time to travel. There should be more opportunities for casual, real time interactions in a few years if, as planned, we move to San Francisco, but in the meantime I'm afraid that we're largely limited to CM and other similar fora. Because of self-selection, because of the ability to describe preferences in one's profile, and because of the relative anonymity the internet affords, we will usually know whether the woman we are approaching identifies as a slave/submissive/switch, and probably also know a good deal about what that means to her.

I have very much appreciated almost all of the responses so far, and with all that on the table would love to continue this conversation. I'd love to hear back from folks with more than a little realtime experience, particular in poly D/s, but believe firmly that even those who, like us, are just starting out can offer valuable perspective.







(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 12:36:26 PM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
Ask her hows the craic while cracking the whip on her backside and ask her after sessions does She enjoy being with You, if she doesnt , You will know She is not a match. Best let her go then. No , laughs, just be normal., treat her as woman first and submissive second. Ask yourself how would i court a Woman and go from there

kevin

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 12:50:56 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

I most emphatically do NOT want to get into a pissing contest over this, but I've begun to notice in this thread a phenomenon that I've observed in several others, which could be described as "beat up the straw-man OP" syndrome.

So far, I've gotten a lot of serious, sincere, insightful replies, and almost as many replies which suggest that (1) I don't know what I'm talking about
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth 'read'/'wannabe'
because (2) there is really no such thing as a "submissive" type.

First of all, please don't slam me simply because I'm young and inexperienced, and I've had the temerity to ask when I don't know. After all, I've gone out on a limb here, and have extended the other posters the same courtesy.





Oddly, I don't actually see anyone here slamming you at all. Merc wasn't calling you a wannabe, I believe he was saying don't use those quantifications when approaching people. I say oddly because the boards can be rough on new people, actually in this thread I don't see that at all. Keep in mind, sometimes they aren't replying to the OP but merely expressing their thoughts on other posters. Discussion on the subject matter that isn't about the OP is still ok last I knew.

I really doubt your problem will be how to approach them, you seem to be quite capable of intelligent and even humorous conversation. There are so many on these sites that lack even the basic social skills to send out a first email. Believe me, you're way ahead of the game. The problem is you are chasing a unicorn. How do you find the few that may be interested in being with a poly couple when there are many of those couples searching for the few? I think asking some poly couples that have succeeded might be a good start. Yes, approach them as a human being, a woman, not a submissive, but also recognize that there may be many that just don't have any interest in the couple. Identifying those that are and finding a way to ensure them that can be a successful arrangement, I would think is your bigger challenge.

Good luck to you!



_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 3:17:56 PM   
realcoolhand


Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3 Good luck to you!


I would've quoted your whole response but don't like to waste space (even digital space). Suffice to say, thanks for the warmth and confidence.

As to my misinterpretation of Merc's comment: I am sorry about that. I should have sought clarification before calling you out for something that I can now see was not meant to be taken at all personally, but was rather part of larger, constructive comment.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/16/2010 5:10:33 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

I most emphatically do NOT want to get into a pissing contest over this, but I've begun to notice in this thread a phenomenon that I've observed in several others, which could be described as "beat up the straw-man OP" syndrome.

So far, I've gotten a lot of serious, sincere, insightful replies, and almost as many replies which suggest that (1) I don't know what I'm talking about
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth 'read'/'wannabe'
because (2) there is really no such thing as a "submissive" type.

First of all, please don't slam me simply because I'm young and inexperienced, and I've had the temerity to ask when I don't know. After all, I've gone out on a limb here, and have extended the other posters the same courtesy.

Second of all, I am not persuaded that there is not a submissive type simply because there are indisputably important differences between individual subs, or because submission can be expressed in various ways. For example, if asked to describe a chair in general terms, I might answer that it has a back, four legs, and can be used as a seat. I would not be persuaded that the concept of a "chair" is meaningless merely because someone points out that a bar stool has three legs, no back, and can be used to fend off the OP.

And by way of providing a little context, there are no clubs, munches, or other opportunities to interact in real time with like-minded folks in our small southern city, and because of my work it is very, very difficult for us to find time to travel. There should be more opportunities for casual, real time interactions in a few years if, as planned, we move to San Francisco, but in the meantime I'm afraid that we're largely limited to CM and other similar fora. Because of self-selection, because of the ability to describe preferences in one's profile, and because of the relative anonymity the internet affords, we will usually know whether the woman we are approaching identifies as a slave/submissive/switch, and probably also know a good deal about what that means to her.

I have very much appreciated almost all of the responses so far, and with all that on the table would love to continue this conversation. I'd love to hear back from folks with more than a little realtime experience, particular in poly D/s, but believe firmly that even those who, like us, are just starting out can offer valuable perspective.


You already got that, whether you realized it or not.  The fact that you chose to brush it off doesn't change it.

Now, let Me be quite frank with you.  In My opinion, you didn't exactly 'extend yourself' by writing up this post.  It took all of about five minutes to create yourself a profile here and perhaps another few minutes to start and keep up with this thread.  That's not exactly a huge investment.  It makes you no different than any other person who's stumbled onto this little corner of the internet who has asked the same exact thing.

I took a look at your location, and it's not like you are in the middle of no where.  You are within driving distance of a good number of opportunities.  I think you might want to re-investigate your options.  If it were anything else that you wanted, would you expect to sit back and have things happen for you through that little screen that you're looking at?

We can go on all day about whether there is a difference between a submissive 'type' and a chair.  As someone who is the head of a poly family, I can promise you that any chair that I bring into My home isn't going to matter.   From one submissive to another certainly will.  In that vein, you already have something of a disadvantage of being young and having no experience.   You may want to temper that a bit with what you can learn here.

Speaking of which, here is a thread for you.  http://www.collarchat.com/m_2992857/tm.htm  From one person to another who didn't have a clue of what the hell they were doing when poly seemed the best solution.  I want you to have a look at it and see what I'm trying to say to you about time, investment, and effort.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/17/2010 2:05:50 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

For example, if asked to describe a chair in general terms, I might answer that it has a back, four legs, and can be used as a seat. I would not be persuaded that the concept of a "chair" is meaningless merely because someone points out that a bar stool has three legs, no back, and can be used to fend off the OP.
Ok, so let's extend the metaphor-imagine you went to a carpentry forum and started a thread saying 'what's the best way to build a chair?'...

As far as approaching subs goes, I'd imagine from your writing that you've got the basics (be civil, be funny, be a pleasure to converse with, etc.) down pat. From your question I'd imagine that you think there is a more detailed answer floating through the ether somewhere that we can give you. There isn't, really.

Work out what you want, find people you think might want what you want, express what it is that you want to them clearly and listen when they tell you whether or not it is what they want. Repeat either ad infinitum or until you find one that sticks.

I'm not being snarky, but that really *is* all there is.


_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.




(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/17/2010 6:09:24 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
if i was to be approached by someone looking for a third id want to feel that the person approaching me is interested in *me*.  not as a third but as me in my own right, what i might be bringing to the table and how you and youre partner intend to involve me, include me and see it panning out for everyone.

so, id say you need to be genuinely interested in this other as an individual in their own right, listen, communicate openly, sensitively and warmly and make them feel welcome in youre world.  youre partner needs to be involved also and a gradual period of time should be mooted where you all meet up together and ensure all get on well. 

you need to come through as someone who is actively seeking to *add* to youre relationship by finding someone who isnt just kinkily matched, but will find a common ground with youre other submissive where they can be friends and pull together.  youre partner needs to be clearly on the same page with this and made part of the process.

if you achieve this you will be sending out the message to prospectives that you are both united in finding a third and that you, youreself will be fully in control of the dynamic and have the best interests of the third as a considered factor.

there is a chance that subs you approach have already experienced poly and had a bad time of it.  poly takes work, the D needs to be on top of things, aware of both subs needs and emotions. 

i ended up in a poly situation and it would take some pretty convincing talk and a seriously committed Master to ever get me down that path again

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/17/2010 7:31:11 AM   
Dominatist


Posts: 87
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

As soon as someone approached me as if they were writing a letter to the masses or filling our a job application they were deleted unanswered.
His letter only had about four sentences to it. Those four sentences conveyed his personality and things that were strong and confident and attractive about him. I was hooked from the first word.
Just as he had the ability to hook me at the first word, 99.9 % of the other messages I received made me realize that they'd never get beyond the first word right at the first word. For me there is an instant click.
Don't know why.

Translation...you believed him. Objectively, there were several more that didn't, seeing it as only so much braggadocio.

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/17/2010 8:39:58 AM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline
Well...

If I ever ran into Aynne it would be simple...
grab a fistfull of hair and drag her away...tosss her into my trunk and drive west!

Of course...something tells me she would need to be gagged ALOT!

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/17/2010 12:19:20 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

Second of all, I am not persuaded that there is not a submissive type simply because there are indisputably important differences between individual subs, or because submission can be expressed in various ways.

And by way of providing a little context, there are no clubs, munches, or other opportunities to interact in real time with like-minded folks in our small southern city,


TRANSLATION

I have no experience with chairs other than my own but I am going to tell people who have seen stools, greek and roman chairs without legs, art chairs, frank loyd wright chairs that are unusable, etc that I know every bit as much about chairs as they do.


I get my ass spoiled on a level few men believe possible by women who were other people's dominants or "bad" submissives. .

In general, my way of "purseing" women is to send them off into the bdsm world and if they stay, they aren't for me. If they turn around and come back, we can talk.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 5/17/2010 12:20:07 PM >

(in reply to realcoolhand)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: So how DO you approach a sub? - 5/17/2010 3:43:50 PM   
realcoolhand


Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

Second of all, I am not persuaded that there is not a submissive type simply because there are indisputably important differences between individual subs, or because submission can be expressed in various ways.

And by way of providing a little context, there are no clubs, munches, or other opportunities to interact in real time with like-minded folks in our small southern city,


TRANSLATION

I have no experience with chairs other than my own but I am going to tell people who have seen stools, greek and roman chairs without legs, art chairs, frank loyd wright chairs that are unusable, etc that I know every bit as much about chairs as they do.


I get my ass spoiled on a level few men believe possible by women who were other people's dominants or "bad" submissives. .

In general, my way of "purseing" women is to send them off into the bdsm world and if they stay, they aren't for me. If they turn around and come back, we can talk.


TRANSLATION

"They don't like you. I don't like you very much either."

Just kidding; and I do appreciate the advice.

< Message edited by realcoolhand -- 5/17/2010 3:45:30 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 53
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