Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (Full Version)

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VioletGray -> Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 7:14:11 AM)



So, I know for quite some time they've been working on a birth control pill for men.  I thought "Great! More control of the consequences of sex is a good thing!"

Then I discovered this article:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/05/11/a-birth-control-pill-for-men-in-your-dreams/

Before that it never occurred to me that some people might actually be against the idea.  The person that wrote this article specifically, I think is a bit out of touch.  Here are my problems with the article:
  • She seems to think that getting pregnant only affects the woman.  For about 9 months, that's true. There are some who would say that becoming a father DOES have an effect on a man's life.
  • She also seem to think that the responsibility for preventing pregnancy would have to be "handed over" to the man. Why can't both people take measured to ensure that they don't have a child?"
  • She must have never met a man before, because if she thinks that a man who doesn't want to have kids is going to forget to take his pill, then she is out of her mind.
Is there a bigger point that I'm missing? Is there something else that the writer of this article has neglected to consider? What's the deal?





VioletGray -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 7:15:53 AM)

oops double post!



TheHeretic -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 7:35:39 AM)

Side effects would have to be a consideration, but if this had been available 15-20 years ago, I'd have been aboard. It was a very happy day when a particular absent minded and fertile-Myrtle old girlfriend got her Norplant and I didn't have to wonder if she had remembered her pill that morning.



hlen5 -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 7:39:49 AM)

I think it can only be good news that men can have a contraceptive available. The partner in question would have to trust him totally to give up her method of contraception. For me, maybe, his contraception would be redundant.



Loki45 -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 7:41:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray
So, I know for quite some time they've been working on a birth control pill for men.  I thought "Great! More control of the consequences of sex is a good thing!"

Then I discovered this article:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/05/11/a-birth-control-pill-for-men-in-your-dreams/

Before that it never occurred to me that some people might actually be against the idea.  The person that wrote this article specifically, I think is a bit out of touch.  Here are my problems with the article:
  • She seems to think that getting pregnant only affects the woman.  For about 9 months, that's true. There are some who would say that becoming a father DOES have an effect on a man's life.
  • She also seem to think that the responsibility for preventing pregnancy would have to be "handed over" to the man. Why can't both people take measured to ensure that they don't have a child?"
  • She must have never met a man before, because if she thinks that a man who doesn't want to have kids is going to forget to take his pill, then she is out of her mind.
Is there a bigger point that I'm missing? Is there something else that the writer of this article has neglected to consider? What's the deal?


The basic flaw in the plan is that, like the female pill, the male pill would be powerless to stop disease. So you're telling men not only do they have to take a pill to not get a girl pregnant, but they have to also wear the condom to 'be safe' against diseases as well.....why not kill two birds with one stone and just use the condom anyway?



GotSteel -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 8:19:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray
  • She must have never met a man before, because if she thinks that a man who doesn't want to have kids is going to forget to take his pill, then she is out of her mind.

Some people are pretty forgetful. I have a friend who constantly forgets to take the pill despite her desire not to have children, I can't imagine that having a Y chromosome would make her any less spacey.



DarkSteven -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 8:44:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray
She seems to think that getting pregnant only affects the woman.  For about 9 months, that's true. There are some who would say that becoming a father DOES have an effect on a man's life.



As a man who was once  married to a pregnant woman, lemme tell you that it sure as hell does affect the man.  Not only are pregnant women.. um... less even keeled, but nobody just has a baby with no planning and then takes care of the kid.  Lots of women truly enjoy planning and anticipating having a baby in their lives, and why would they exclude their man from this?  Being a father does not magically begin at birth.  In a healthy relationship, it should begin prior to conception.



lizi -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 10:27:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I think it can only be good news that men can have a contraceptive available. The partner in question would have to trust him totally to give up her method of contraception. For me, maybe, his contraception would be redundant.


I had a conversation the other day with someone in which we decided that in order to be sure of contraception each partner has to take their own precautions. As a woman I could rely on my man to use a condom....and I have no way of knowing how long he's had it in his pocket prior to use or if he has purposefully put a pinhole through it because he'd rather have me pregnant. I on the other hand know when I bought any condoms I may offer to him and would know for sure if I had tampered with them...but he wouldn't. It's a vicious circle.

I may tell him that I am on the pill and then as others have pointed out...forget to take it. I may be on the Depo shot and forget to go get it on time. I might have an IUD and forget to check it's placement. I might say I'm on the pill, depo, IUD, norplant...etc....and not be on any of those things. A woman I know was on birth control pills, told her partner to stop using condoms and got pregnant....because she didn't know that taking St. Johns' Wort negated the effect of the pill. Because he let his side of the birth control equation go and depended on her - they both ended up with a result they didn't want.

A male pill would be great as it expands the choices for men but as Loki pointed out men still wouldn't be protected from disease by using a pill. More choices are usually better and have the chance to help in more situations. Any increase in knowledge can also contribute to other discoveries being sparked from that. Lots of medications have been found to be useful for more than one thing. So it would give men more choices overall- cool.



Moonhead -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 1:20:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray
Is there something else that the writer of this article has neglected to consider? What's the deal?

Apart from the fact that the sort of wanker who can't even be bothered to use a johnny is hardly going to take a birth control pill, you mean?



Viridana -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 1:43:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
The basic flaw in the plan is that, like the female pill, the male pill would be powerless to stop disease. So you're telling men not only do they have to take a pill to not get a girl pregnant, but they have to also wear the condom to 'be safe' against diseases as well.....why not kill two birds with one stone and just use the condom anyway?

The male pill could be a good option for couples already in an established relationship, specially if the woman doesn't handle conventional hormonal contraception very well, which is often the case.

I've noticed on this thread that people seem to be locked into thinking about this in the context of one night stands or sexing up a new partner. Of course the condom is the only viable option in my mind in those instances, since it is the only protection against STD's on the market, but let's not forget that the majority of users of contraception are people in established relationships/marriages etc. where people usually rely on other measures than condoms.



rulemylife -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 2:11:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Apart from the fact that the sort of wanker who can't even be bothered to use a johnny is hardly going to take a birth control pill, you mean?


I really think I'm going to have to publish that English to American translation guide.

Now do they have johnny dispensers in the loo or do you have to buy them from the chemist?  [:D]



Moonhead -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 2:57:49 PM)

You do still see the machines in pub toilets occasionally, yes.



Aneirin -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 6:07:37 PM)

The trouble with pills aka, complex chemical concoctions that inhibit the natural order, is that they have more effects than just inhibiting conception in humans. Take the pill for example, the chemical concoction that has been around since the 1960's, women's liberation it was called, but the after effects are now being known in the enviroment.  Further more the area of  England I used to live in, had the highest instance of male infertility, this thought to be due to how many times water has passed through a person, the Thames valley was reckoned at four times.


Ok, so whatever we do it seems has an effect elsewhere, and it may be certain things will come back to haunt us, but one just has to ask what chemicals are required to inhibit the most natural thing on this planet, that of furthering our species. By inhibiting conception, we are in effect going against nature. Sod all the Co2 the experts say we are chucking into the enviroment, that is the least of our worries, for life adapts, but destroy conception, that truly will be the end of human life, but not forgetting the non human life, what effect has these chemical birth control products have on them ?

Could we in the search for a worry free shag be destroying life on this planet ?

But of the act of screwing, to me, nothing compares to the old welly boots, a good bit of rubber in between, a jonny for the lads and/or, a pond liner for the lasses for those whose sexual history is not certified or indeed known.

If it wasn't for the knowledge of STD's being a possibility, I myself would quite happily avoid the welly boots, for I am infertile, but that through mumps in puberty, not the poison water where I used to live.

As to forgetting to take the pill, a pill, whatever, that is human, it will happen, nature getting it's own back perhaps, but of chemical pills that inhibit life, I wonder at the contraindications of such things, for nothing in this world is without a price.



Brain -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 9:58:40 PM)

Do you really want to trust a man to take the pill? If you can accept the consequences if he lied then rely on him.



DarkSteven -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 10:04:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Do you really want to trust a man to take the pill? If you can accept the consequences if he lied then rely on him.


Screw that.  I know a lot of men who are trustworthy, and a lot of women who aren't.  The extra X chromosome does not guarantee truthfulness or dependability.



GotSteel -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/16/2010 11:30:55 PM)

[8|] thepillkills.org isn't exactly a reliable source of information.

Taking "the pill" won't increase a woman's risk of death -- in fact, oral contraceptive users may live longer, researchers say. In a population-based study of women in the U.K., death from any cause was 12 percent lower among birth control pill users than among those who never took the drugs, Dr. Philip Hannaford of the University of Aberdeen in Scotland and colleagues reported online in BMJ.http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/birth-control-pills-reduce-cancer-death/story?id=10084482

It would be easier to take you seriously about the water contamination point you actually have if you weren't citing a crackpot site and ranting about "natural order" as though anything in your life is natural. Could you even survive a weekend if you were stranded in your natural environment?



WyldHrt -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/17/2010 12:18:30 AM)

quote:

Screw that.  I know a lot of men who are trustworthy, and a lot of women who aren't.  The extra X chromosome does not guarantee truthfulness or dependability.

What Steven said.

I find it funny that some here think that if a man is on 'the pill', both the women they partner with and the men themselves will happily give up other methods of contraception/ disease control such as condoms. Ridiculous. Even more ridiculous to think that this would happen in the case of casual flings/ one night stands.

A 'pill' for men is just one more barrier to pregnancy, and one that men completely control. It's a viable option for a man who truly doesn't want to be a father, because condoms do break and some women do lie. What does anyone think is wrong with giving men another choice to control their own reproduction? [>:]



Viridana -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/17/2010 12:45:31 AM)

It is very true fact that male infertility is on the rise, not only in humans but other species as well.

However there have been scientific researches to find the cause. The theory that is most prevalent now is that it may be caused by the decomposition of plastic. When plastic decomposes, one of the chemicals that is released has a molecular structure similar to estrogen.
One study I read was about a group of scientists testing that theory on a tank of fish. After a certain amount of decomposition the water had high concentration of that chemical and many of the male baby fish were infertile when adult. Same experiment has been conducted with frogs with similar results.

When was plastic introduced to the masses? wasn't it in the 60's?
I agree wholeheartedly with GotSteel, that this website you quote is not a reliable source.
I find it as well laughable that an environmental catastrophy is due to the urination of women on the pill. The oestrogen in the pill is in neglible amounts. If your theory and the website's were correct, women with hyperoestrogenemia (Polycystic ovary syndrome) would be a health hazard to every fertile male.



RCdc -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/17/2010 2:34:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
It would be easier to take you seriously about the water contamination point you actually have if you weren't citing a crackpot site and ranting about "natural order" as though anything in your life is natural. Could you even survive a weekend if you were stranded in your natural environment?



Knowing A as I do, yes he could![:D]  If the end of the world came, I know without hesitation that I'd want A there with us.  The man knows his survival techniques.

I also agree that site pretty much sucks agenda.

the.dark.



eyesopened -> RE: Birth Control for Men. Yes? No? (5/17/2010 3:11:17 AM)

I think it would have to depend on the possible side effects.  My observation is that most men are so concerned about their junk that it actually bars some from even having their dog neutered. 

But I also believe a man should have an equal say in whether not he wants to have a child.  As a woman who got pregnant while taking the pill.... a little redundancy isn't such a bad thing.



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