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credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:13:53 PM

amaster5

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Joined: 10/31/2007
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All right, here's something that I think should be discussed, and I'm putting it here although I'm sure someone will decide it is controversial in nature.
So, allow me to ask a very sarcastic question to open this matter up for discussion.
Can anyone please, explain to me how, morally and ethically at least, as obviously they have a legal right, credit card companies can decide not to allow people to purchase certain bdsm oriented paraphernalia and products online by refusing to complete the transaction, and further, going so far as to force online retailers to remove certain items from their online catalogs if they want to continue doing business with that credit card company?
What's next, you can't order slave collars online because they find it morally objectionable?
(Yes, that was a complicatedly worded question, okay technically two, but the second was just to hammer home my point; I apologize. If I need to explain my sarcastic question in more detail, please let me know).

Post #: 1

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:19:15 PM

MC4Misfit

Posts: 72
Joined: 3/31/2010
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Well as to them legally having the right, the service agreements I read never state that they have a right to decide what legal merchandise you can buy with the card. Legally, it's just another transaction to them.

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Post #: 2

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:19:50 PM

LadyPact

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I can't say that I've ever had this experience. I've paid for everything from entrance to regional leather events, to BDSM club memberships, to toys, to small town demos, and darn near anything else you can think of with credit cards. I have never had My purchase or expense declined.

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RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:23:43 PM

amaster5

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Joined: 10/31/2007
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Yes, unfortunately you've never had this problem because they don't discuss it with you, they discuss it with the vendors. The credit card companies go to the vendors and tell them this isn't acceptable. This forces the vendors to either not offer an item for sale, or not do business with that credit card company. If you see it offered for sale, you won't have a problem making the purchase.

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Post #: 4

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:36:35 PM

Aylee

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I am not even sure how that would work. After all, the CC companies do not know WHAT you bought, just the name (account) of the store and the amount.

Of course you could always use your debit card or write a check or something like that.

Perhaps your card was declined for another reason. It has been known to happen.

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RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:42:49 PM

thatsub

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It is rather strange. Clearing houses, through which transaction is taking place, do not know anything but the amount and name of the merchant. Then they pass on this information to your credit card company, which gets even less details of the transaction. Very often even the name of the merchant will be something obscure, in order to protect customers' privacy. Has this actually happened to you, or are you just speculating about the possibility?

The only similar incident that I remember happend with illegal MP3 wesite and VISA and MasterCard decided to close that merchant's account. However, it was a case with illegal goods and they possibly had a legal cause to reject transactions.

< Message edited by thatsub -- 5/16/2010 6:43:36 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:45:19 PM

DreamyLadySnow

Posts: 359
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I've heard of people having that issue with PayPayl, but not directly with a credit card company. Makes little sense. THey're in it for the money not the morals.

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Post #: 7

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 6:51:00 PM

CalifChick

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From: California
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There are classes of merchants that are considered "high risk" for credit card processing. Travel, legal gambling, and adult-oriented businesses are the top three. Credit card processors evaluate each merchant for risk before accepting them. There are even processors that specialize in high-risk clients.

Back in 2003, Paypal decided that adult-oriented merchants were too risky to take on, as the rate of fraud, chargebacks, returns, etc., is enormous. Fetlife had difficulty in securing a credit card processor to take donations to the site because the site is adult-oriented and therefore falls into the high risk category.

If a merchant signs up with a credit card processor as, for instance, a retail and online clothing store, and starts stocking adult-oriented merchandise, then when the credit card processor becomes aware, they will do one of several things. They can drop the store since it is high risk and that particular processor doesn't deal in high risk, or the store can go back to being low risk (which is what you're saying is happening), and/or the store can sign up with a high-risk processor, which will result in less favorable processing rates.

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RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 7:09:34 PM

thatsub

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High risk merchants are not the same as what he is talking about...I think. Also, like you said, it is the middle-man and not your bank (or credit card company) who decides wether to do business with a particular merchant or not. But once that merchant finds any credit card processor that is willing to clear the payments, they are all set and they don't care what banks their customers use.

I had few incidents like that myself, but they all were resolved rather quickly by either me calling my bank or them calling me. You don't have to tell them what you are buying either. They are only concerned with fraud protection and want to make sure it was you who was making the purchase and that you still have your credit card.

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Post #: 9

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 7:27:31 PM

DomImus

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You will find a much stricter TOS over at bondage.com for precisely the reason the OP suggests - the payment processors require it. I have read that they have been phasing in their own in house billing service so maybe things are lightening up a tad.

Start your own bdsm friendly credit card company and perverts will beat a path to your door.

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Post #: 10

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 7:38:35 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
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From: Stockton, California
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I haven't ever run into this with a credit card company, but I have run into it with companies that handle transactions before the credit card comes into effect. As a web designer, I've had a few bad experiences with web hosting companies, shopping cart services, turn key operators, and even Paypal when it came to high profile clients with whom I was working. One of the shopping cart companies we'd been doing business with for nearly a decade when they suddenly got very high and mighty, refusing to have anything to do with "smut" when it was nothing more than a bdsm book company.

At one point, I had a blogging service tell me I needed to take down my blog from their service because they didn't want to deal with a "sex" site, when all it was happened to be a blog about my experiences in a live-in slavery environment. Wasn't a single bit of "sex" involved at all, but they got adamant about it, and I had to go somewhere else.

But haven't run into any credit card problems so far.

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RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 7:50:37 PM

amaster5

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To be clearer, as there seems to be some questions, and my information IS second hand what appears to be happening is someone, either a credit card company directly or some kind of middle man, checks the online merchandising available through the site, and if they find something they find objectionable, the vendor must either remove it, or not do business with that credit card.
And in reply to thatsub (interesting username, but I digress) I won't go into details, but I sell some stuff online: my information comes from the vendor, who of course, is obliged to keep his clients up to date with what is going on. Not sure how much actual visitors to the site are aware of this.

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Post #: 12

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 9:01:13 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
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From: Kentucky
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Cali chick's answer was spot on. When you sign up with a Credit Card Merchant, you sign a contract and the contract binds you to what you can and cannot offer. If someone has a "vanilla" (not high risk) contract, and then start offering items or services that are clearly in violation of the contract, the credit card merchant can shut them down in a heartbeat.

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Post #: 13

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/16/2010 9:07:35 PM

DarkSteven

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So would a debit card not have this problem?

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RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/17/2010 12:02:45 AM

reynardfox

Posts: 417
Joined: 9/8/2009
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The credit card company has no interest whatsoever in what you are buying.
If your card was declined, it was declined, and that's that.
Maybe the firm you were dealing with has issues with the bank and it's not you at all. I buy all kinds of odd stuff and no one gives a hoot.

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Post #: 15

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/17/2010 8:12:53 AM

amaster5

Posts: 109
Joined: 10/31/2007
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I know I mentioned it once before, but, I'm not having a problem with my own credit card, I happen to be selling some things online and my information in this matter is coming from the vendor. And no, what I am offering hasn't been removed from sale, it seems to be tame enough not to be affected. I can just see how things seem to be progressing: the vendor fixes the problem to the satisfaction of the credit company, and then a month later when he gets new items, he has to go through the entire process again.
The problem isn't really a buyer's purchase being declined, I'm sorry if that was confusing. The problem is with the credit card company (or some kind of middle man or whatever, some one who represents them and makes decisions in such matters) decides that some items are objectionable (not stolen or illegal in nature, just objectionable) and then the vendor must eiter remove the items from sale, or not do business with that credit card company.

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Post #: 16

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/17/2010 4:20:56 PM

thatsub

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

So would a debit card not have this problem?

It makes no difference what you use. They are talking about credit card processor company and its agreement with the merchant. Your bank is a separate entity in this transaction. There are usually 4 parties in online transactions: you <----> merchant <----> credit card processor <-----> your bank

Basically it is the same problem as with website hosting, when many hosting services do not want to host adult content of any kind.

< Message edited by thatsub -- 5/17/2010 4:23:01 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/17/2010 4:57:19 PM

usemetopleaseyou

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Joined: 5/16/2010
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I find it hard to believe. Not saying it's not true, but how do they know WHAT you bought?

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RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/17/2010 7:52:50 PM

xxblushesxx

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From: Kentucky
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They don't care what YOU bought. They care what the vendor they are offering the services to is selling.

< Message edited by xxblushesxx -- 5/17/2010 7:53:09 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: credit cards and bdsm - 5/17/2010 8:24:36 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
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I'm completely confused by your question. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I am not sure how it would have happened.

Let me give you a little background info on myself. I own a store in a mall. I accept credit cards. So I have a credit card processor that I deal with. I also operate multiple on-line retail sites. I have merchant accounts for each of those as well. I also accept payment via Paypal, so I have accounts there also.

Regardless of the payment gateway that I use, my transaction is fairly invisible to them. They don't see what I sell. They simply get a financial transaction. For example, they will see that I am charging someone's credit card for $120. But the merchandise attached to that transaction is completely invisible to the credit card processor. So I am having a hard time understanding how the credit card company would even be aware of what merchandise was involved in the particular transaction. That information is not available to them.

Moreover, they make money by processing transactions. Why would they refuse transactions for moral reasons?

You say that you heard this story secondhand. I think that it was not communicated to you properly. What I've read so far doesn't make sense, and I am both an on-line and a brick-and-mortar retailer.

There is obviously a detail that is missing in this story.

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Post #: 20

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