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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/21/2010 7:39:08 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
Please provide the proof in either Jewish or Christian doctrine or scripture where either religion claims moral tenets did not exist prior to the giving of The Law at Mt Sinai.   *sigh* I'll save you some time.  There isn't any. 

That's not at all what I was arguing, nice try changing my position. It is an interesting idea though, I'll look into it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
If an idea is public domain then it cannot be plagiarized as you claim.

Fraudulently claiming ownership of an idea that is public domain is illegal.

"(c) Fraudulent Copyright Notice. — Any person who, with fraudulent intent, places on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false, shall be fined not more than $2,500." http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 5/21/2010 7:53:22 AM >

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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/21/2010 11:03:45 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
Please provide the proof in either Jewish or Christian doctrine or scripture where either religion claims moral tenets did not exist prior to the giving of The Law at Mt Sinai.   *sigh* I'll save you some time.  There isn't any. 

That's not at all what I was arguing, nice try changing my position. It is an interesting idea though, I'll look into it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
If an idea is public domain then it cannot be plagiarized as you claim.

Fraudulently claiming ownership of an idea that is public domain is illegal.

"(c) Fraudulent Copyright Notice. — Any person who, with fraudulent intent, places on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false, shall be fined not more than $2,500." http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506


Okay.....  Then prove to me that Christianity or Judism has claimed sole ownership of moral tenets and even more specifically did so "with fraudulent intent, placed on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false"

Look, Firm made an error in alluding to moral tenets being religious beliefs.  It was an error.   You made an error in saying  "Christianity plagiarized those, ... Yahweh stealing credit for other peoples work is really common.
... Yahweh's followers want to steal credit on his behalf for everything under (and including) the sun, it's completely undeserved."   Those are harsh words.  The United States adopted most of the ideals in the Consitution from previous governments and civilizations and didn't steal them.  Many religions adopt identical moral tenets as secular populations without claiming they own them  There is nothing in Jewish or Christian doctrine where moral tenets are claimed as being owned by the followers of Yahweh.

If you've read anything I've written you would know I am hardly a fan of religion.  So I do not like when people try to tell me there is no morality without god.  I also do not like it when people suggest that all concepts of god equal some kind of Cosmic Boogie Man.  (not pointing a finger at anyone, just saying it's something I've experienced with a few folks during my travels on this planet). 


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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/22/2010 7:34:48 PM   
auditguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

JEW FOR JESUS!


I believe its pronounced Christian (don't worry it's a French phrase, common mistake).

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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/22/2010 8:46:35 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
even more specifically did so "with fraudulent intent, placed on any article a notice of copyright or words of the same purport that such person knows to be false, or who, with fraudulent intent, publicly distributes or imports for public distribution any article bearing such notice or words that such person knows to be false"

I see you're still straw-manning me, you're need to rephrase what I'm saying and attribute my response to one point as though it was to another should clue you in that you're doing something wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
You made an error in saying  "Christianity plagiarized those, ... Yahweh stealing credit for other peoples work is really common.
... Yahweh's followers want to steal credit on his behalf for everything under (and including) the sun, it's completely undeserved."   Those are harsh words.  The United States adopted most of the ideals in the Consitution from previous governments and civilizations and didn't steal them.  Many religions adopt identical moral tenets as secular populations without claiming they own them  There is nothing in Jewish or Christian doctrine where moral tenets are claimed as being owned by the followers of Yahweh.

Is this entire discussion between us just a pedantic one over the word choice of steal versus adopt?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
If you've read anything I've written you would know I am hardly a fan of religion.

Does this mean you're no longer Lutheran?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
I also do not like it when people suggest that all concepts of god equal some kind of Cosmic Boogie Man.  (not pointing a finger at anyone, just saying it's something I've experienced with a few folks during my travels on this planet). 

I'm sure that happens at the same time I've seen a number of cases of equivocation where someone will say God meaning a very specific literary figure or a particular groups version of said figure and a theist will take offense thinking they mean any sort of god or said theists own completely different concept of a god.



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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/23/2010 12:08:45 AM   
Vendaval


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Fast Reply -

I think we need to distinguish between moral/ethical codes which tend to have similar structures and rules vrs. religious doctrine which specifies belief specific to a religion.

The Code of Hammurabi from ancient Babylon (modern Iraq) predates the 10 Commandments by 500 years or so and is a very lengthy law code that has relevance even today.


http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM



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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/23/2010 12:19:18 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Fast Reply -

I think we need to distinguish between moral/ethical codes which tend to have similar structures and rules vrs. religious doctrine which specifies belief specific to a religion.

The Code of Hammurabi from ancient Babylon (modern Iraq) predates the 10 Commandments by 500 years or so and is a very lengthy law code that has relevance even today.


http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM





while I dont agree with their punishment scale based on physical ability you will readily notice they have a basis much like christianity in that it is based in truth.

Our present day legal and monetary (commercial), and civil judicial  system is purely based in fraud which is demonstrated by the language and manner of usage in the law dictionaries.  Especially with the use of commercial fictions to get to the real man by proxy.






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/23/2010 12:20:50 AM >


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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/23/2010 5:04:13 AM   
eyesopened


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How can you claim I am straw-manning you when I am simply asking you to prove your claims?

Stealing is a crime as is plagiarism (as you yourself pointed out) and adoption is not a crime.  So word choice is important.  If one adpots a child it would not be the same as kidnapping.  Your claim that religion stole moral tenets is an error.  I don't understand why you would be so unwilling to admit you make a mistake.  It happens.

No, I do not consider myself a Lutheran.  I am not unhappy that I had a Lutheran upbringing but I declined to join any church as an adult.  I belong to no religious organization whatsoever.  It is my personal opinion that religion has a tendancy to impede spiritual discovery rather than enhance it.  But that's me and I have never expected anyone else to be me or to think like me.  I have always maintained that each person needs to find their own path to peace.



_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/23/2010 10:39:59 AM   
GotSteel


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Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
How can you claim I am straw-manning you when I am simply asking you to prove your claims?

No, you've been asking me to prove your claims.



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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/23/2010 3:37:34 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

Stealing is a crime as is plagiarism (as you yourself pointed out) and adoption is not a crime.  So word choice is important.  If one adpots a child it would not be the same as kidnapping.  Your claim that religion stole moral tenets is an error.  I don't understand why you would be so unwilling to admit you make a mistake.  It happens.


Thank you!

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RE: Which religious beliefs still influence you? - 5/23/2010 6:04:17 PM   
heartcream


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What is good for the one is good for the One.

My needs are divine.

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