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RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:18:09 PM   
VideoAdminZeta


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/26/2008
From: the darkest recesses of your twisted minds
Status: offline 		Regardless of anyone's sex life, it's time to calm down.  Don't like a post?  Report it.  Want to write a scathing personal attack?  Refrain.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:20:32 PM   
VideoAdminZeta


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/26/2008
From: the darkest recesses of your twisted minds
Status: offline 		That's it.  No more Nice Mod.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:21:44 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Once you develop feelings, everything gets complicated, just packing up and leave doesn't seem so black and white anymore.


Ultimately you are responsible for your life situation and your happiness.  The amount of crap each person is willing to take varies. 


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(in reply to forsaken555)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:23:01 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Who the fuck are YOU to see into another's relationship based on a few posted words?


I agree. Soc knows some words now, like SSC and RACK, and that makes him an expert. He still doesn't get the concept of ongoing negotiation. This is an idea most humans--even vanilla ones--understand.

I wish Soc would stop posting. I don't want him to kill himself, though. I want him to just go away, so he can ease my non-consensual suffering.

January

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(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:24:11 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:


Ultimately you are responsible for your life situation and your happiness.  The amount of crap each person is willing to take varies. 


Exactly. I would like to suggest to some people not to take too much of it. They would feel much better.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:24:44 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot


The only thing that I find interesting about you is that when you insult someone you do it with style.



Thanks :)

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(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:25:28 PM   
forsaken555


Posts: 39
Joined: 12/2/2009
Status: offline
quote:

The amount of crap each person is willing to take varies. 

I agree. It also differs with different people, how much can you tolerate their faults.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:25:31 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		group hug, perhaps?

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:26:41 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		yes, it is making me an unhappy sub/slave in a nonconsentual relationship with a vanilla dude that's abusive with his constant comments too....I'd like to leave....but sadly I can't....who would mock the anteater then? (what? it's on topic!)

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:37:19 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		SN, do you remember back when I asked how well giving other people advice was working for you?  Let me repeat the question, because I think you need to take some time to seriously consider what you are really accomplishing when you make pronouncements of absolute moral certainty about other people's relationships and lifestyle choices. 

I don't think you're doing the people you are attempting to advise any good.  You are absolutely not doing yourself any good.  Mostly you lose people's respect, not gain it, when you preach at them rather than talking respectfully to them.  You are definitely not doing the site any good.  When you pass judgment on people and they get understandably rather peeved at this, the moderators have to step in to calm the resulting fireworks.  They do have better things to do with their time.

I also mentioned that if one person calls me an ass, I can laugh it off.  If twenty people call me an ass, I had better look behind me for ears and a tail, because when that many people notice, it's a pretty good indication that I've been braying like one. 

Right now I also need to tell you that you are being an ass.  The behavior you're bringing on board is not acceptable and is never going to get a positive response here.  All you're going to achieve is disruption, thread derailing, and starting brawls.  None of these things is accomplishing anything good or useful.   It would be a lot more helpful if you could respect that other people's beliefs and choices are different from your own, and learn how to contribute your own beliefs and perspective to a discussion without being absolutist and judgmental of others.  If you could do that, then people would listen to you, and you would be accomplishing something positive.

I hope you do take what I'm saying seriously and learn from it.  If you don't or won't.....well, the moderators have already been in here, and I expect they'll continue to do their job.  I don't think that will end well for you however. 


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(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 7:51:20 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

SN, do you remember back when I asked how well giving other people advice was working for you?  Let me repeat the question, because I think you need to take some time to seriously consider what you are really accomplishing when you make pronouncements of absolute moral certainty about other people's relationships and lifestyle choices. 

I don't think you're doing the people you are attempting to advise any good.  You are absolutely not doing yourself any good.  Mostly you lose people's respect, not gain it, when you preach at them rather than talking respectfully to them.  You are definitely not doing the site any good.  When you pass judgment on people and they get understandably rather peeved at this, the moderators have to step in to calm the resulting fireworks.  They do have better things to do with their time.

I also mentioned that if one person calls me an ass, I can laugh it off.  If twenty people call me an ass, I had better look behind me for ears and a tail, because when that many people notice, it's a pretty good indication that I've been braying like one. 

Right now I also need to tell you that you are being an ass.  The behavior you're bringing on board is not acceptable and is never going to get a positive response here.  All you're going to achieve is disruption, thread derailing, and starting brawls.  None of these things is accomplishing anything good or useful.   It would be a lot more helpful if you could respect that other people's beliefs and choices are different from your own, and learn how to contribute your own beliefs and perspective to a discussion without being absolutist and judgmental of others.  If you could do that, then people would listen to you, and you would be accomplishing something positive.

I hope you do take what I'm saying seriously and learn from it.  If you don't or won't.....well, the moderators have already been in here, and I expect they'll continue to do their job.  I don't think that will end well for you however. 


I am going to take your advice.
Would you try to help me to learn how to state my 100% honest and sicnere opinion or perspective without causing disruption on forum?
But at the same time I want to remain 100% true to myself, I mean I don't want to lie to people just because this is more convenient.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 8:13:47 PM   
AllLockedUp


Posts: 33
Joined: 3/8/2010
Status: offline 		SN, I/we ALL understand "To thine own self, be true". What seems to ellude you is part about keeping it, YOUR truth, to yourself. We all have a POV. You have to learn when to reign yours in.

Control of self before control of another...

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 8:18:56 PM   
VideoAdminZeta


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/26/2008
From: the darkest recesses of your twisted minds
Status: offline 		While I appreciate that the tone of this thread has turned positive and constructive, the more recent posts are still off-topic.

These are the questions that appeared in the opening post.  Please relate your comments to them somehow.
quote:


Are there any subs or slaves here that don't like their Dom/Master but serve him anyway because he tells you so? Such as, if you weren't bound by a collar or contract or his will, would you leave? I realize it would be really rare, if even possible, but it makes me question the significance of a contract or collar in the first place.

Maybe I should ask it like this, so everyone can answer. What if your Master let himself go and turned into a worthless alcoholic obese unemployed slob. Would you still submit to him?


(in reply to AllLockedUp)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 8:45:10 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Are there any subs or slaves here that don't like their Dom/Master but serve him anyway because he tells you so? Such as, if you weren't bound by a collar or contract or his will, would you leave? I realize it would be really rare, if even possible, but it makes me question the significance of a contract or collar in the first place.

Maybe I should ask it like this, so everyone can answer. What if your Master let himself go and turned into a worthless alcoholic obese unemployed slob. Would you still submit to him?


I will try to answer on topic.

I consider myself to be a switch since I am somewhat attracted to doing it both ways.
For others I don't know, but if I was a sub or slave I think that I would try to leave such a relationship, but I am not sure if I would be able to. Because after many years of serving and obeying without question, obedience becomes your nature and you become almost incapable of disobeying. This is what training and reprogramming can do, if you are in TPE relationship. I think for me, and for everyone else the best thing would be to leave abusive or unsatisfying relationship.
What is even better, IMO, is to never enter a relationship in which you are likely to become unable to disobey. Such thing could be possible only if you trust someone 1000% and ALSO if such person does not have overtly domineering personality. Dominant and domineering are two different things. If you suspect any, even the slightest flaw in character in your potential Master, I would suggest avoiding entering TPE relationship. This is because even the small things can grow over time.
When it comes to me, I would never enter any totalitarian relationship, but if this is something that works for other people, it's OK, but they need to be damn seriously cautious before entering such a relationship.
When it comes to me, the only kind of relationship in which I would enter as a submissive is the one with clearly defined limits, and the one in which D/s is just kinky sexual component of the relationship. The spice of the relationship. The relationship in which I would submit only as much as I consent to, without the possibility of endless pushing of limits, especially without my consent. But, that's just me. For others, I would suggest, do what works for you, but be extremely cautious.

And, once again, to answer the main question. If I happened to be in an abusive or deeply unfulfilling relationship, I would try by all possible means to leave it.
The main reason for it is that abusive and unfulfilling relationships tend to get even more abusive over time, so it is the best to leave them as early as possible.

(in reply to VideoAdminZeta)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 10:20:49 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:


Are there any subs or slaves here that don't like their Dom/Master but serve him anyway because he tells you so? Such as, if you weren't bound by a collar or contract or his will, would you leave? I realize it would be really rare, if even possible, but it makes me question the significance of a contract or collar in the first place.

Maybe I should ask it like this, so everyone can answer. What if your Master let himself go and turned into a worthless alcoholic obese unemployed slob. Would you still submit to him?


I can't personally speak for submissives with male dominants, or really for submissives at all, but I have a pretty good idea of what my two collared boys would do.  My primary partner trusts me enough and wants to please me enough that it probably wouldn't matter how unreasonable my requests became or how badly I treated him.  He'd probably be miserable, but he'd stay and do his best for me out of the deep loyalty that I've seen him exhibit even towards people who had long since stopped deserving it.  If I was really falling apart and no longer competent to lead, he's alpha enough that he would most likely try to step up and take care of me, assuming more of the lead in the relationship. 

My secondary partner would be try to be supportive of both of us for awhile, but at some point he'd cut his losses and walk away to protect himself, probably while trying to at least preserve a friendship.  He doesn't have it in him to deal with a scary situation like that, and he knows it.  It would hurt him a lot, but I doubt he could or would do anything else. 

Our relationship (it's a poly "V" triad where I am dominant and primary to both of my partners) has a solid foundation of love, trust, friendship and many vanilla common interests, so it's not just D/s and nothing else.  If for whatever reason the D/s component failed, there would still be a lot left.  If I changed dramatically and for the worse for some reason, either of my partners might well decide at some point that I was no longer competent to own and control and dominate them.  They would each react differently however. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
I am going to take your advice.
Would you try to help me to learn how to state my 100% honest and sicnere opinion or perspective without causing disruption on forum?
But at the same time I want to remain 100% true to myself, I mean I don't want to lie to people just because this is more convenient.


Yes.  I moved the reply over here though, so it doesn't disrupt any more BDSM conversations.  http://www.collarchat.com/m_3221762/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3221762

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/24/2010 11:22:18 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

You can now officially join me and a bunch of others on the "Ask a Fake" board as soon as they get it all set up.


Oh please tell me they're going to do that!!! That would rock, and my board surfing would be greatly simplified. I would camp on that board.

To the OP...

In my subjective and not-statistically valid, experience I reckon that there are some subs who would remain in service irrespective of their feelings for the Dom. Indeed, there are some who are looking for the kind of abusive relationship where the dom's feelings towards the sub and vice versa aren't important to the relationship - it's about the "submission".

I don't know how many there are in reality, but there are some, I'm sure.

Personally - the idea horrifies me.

For me (and I don't speak for anyone else here) - there's ultimately an equality of needs and wants - The needs and wants may be different, and may involve a significant power imbalance, but her needs and wants are as valid and important as mine. If the time comes where either hers or mine can't be satisfied, then it's time for both of us to move on..

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: unhappy subs/slaves - 5/25/2010 12:02:42 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Oh please tell me they're going to do that!!! That would rock, and my board surfing would be greatly simplified. I would camp on that board.

It's got my vote!
quote:

Personally - the idea horrifies me.

For me (and I don't speak for anyone else here) - there's ultimately an equality of needs and wants - The needs and wants may be different, and may involve a significant power imbalance, but her needs and wants are as valid and important as mine. If the time comes where either hers or mine can't be satisfied, then it's time for both of us to move on..

I knew there was a reason I lubbed you.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
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(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 57
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