Is self-consciousness sexy? (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 9:29:47 AM)



Femdoms: Do you find self consciousness to be sexy?

Subs:  What does self consciousness feel like to you?

In my never ending quest for 'authentic vulnerability' in the men I dominate, I find that 'self consciousness' is a really, really attractive trait. More specifically, when a man is keenly aware and concerned about how I might perceive him, it means he's nervous and often vulnerable about it. I think maybe what's attractive about it is that it's sort of a conflict between trying to save/salvage/protect his ego and confidence, but it's in direct conflict with his desire to please me.

At the same time, I tend to be attracted to men with a lot of confidence and a natural desire to 'perform.'   Men that were probably a class clown in school, were very extroverted, very comfortable addressing groups of people, very animated.  I realize looking back at some of the men I've been drawn to, it was incredibly exciting to find a man with that extrovert, "no fear," personality (in groups) who was uncharacteristically self conscious and vulnerable in one-on-one scenarios. 

Then I realized, that's the big contradiction - there are a lot of men who are pretty extroverted and confident, but deep down, they are really nervous and insecure (one on one) because it's a defense mechanism.  They are actually pretty self conscious - despite being outgoing and seemingly comfortable in the spotlight.  Absolutely mouth-watering, I must say.

Anyway, it's all half-baked in my head, but I think there's something there....at the very least, I'm interested to hear what femdoms and subs think about self consciousness in general.

Akasha



leadership527 -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 10:41:25 AM)

Well, I'm obviously not a domme, but I'll go ahead and answer from my "generically dominant" viewpoint.

The only aspect of "vulnerability" that I am interested in is that it is a necessary component of intimacy. In that sense, Carol and I are both extraordinarily vulnerable to each other. NOBODY can hurt me the way she can. Nobody actually has hurt me the way she has.

Then again, I'm not a fan of conflict either. I prefer people who are clear on where they stand. I suspect it's the engineer's brain in me.



blackpearl81 -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 10:52:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha



Femdoms: Do you find self consciousness to be sexy?

Subs:  What does self consciousness feel like to you?

In my never ending quest for 'authentic vulnerability' in the men I dominate, I find that 'self consciousness' is a really, really attractive trait. More specifically, when a man is keenly aware and concerned about how I might perceive him, it means he's nervous and often vulnerable about it. I think maybe what's attractive about it is that it's sort of a conflict between trying to save/salvage/protect his ego and confidence, but it's in direct conflict with his desire to please me.

At the same time, I tend to be attracted to men with a lot of confidence and a natural desire to 'perform.'   Men that were probably a class clown in school, were very extroverted, very comfortable addressing groups of people, very animated.  I realize looking back at some of the men I've been drawn to, it was incredibly exciting to find a man with that extrovert, "no fear," personality (in groups) who was uncharacteristically self conscious and vulnerable in one-on-one scenarios. 

Then I realized, that's the big contradiction - there are a lot of men who are pretty extroverted and confident, but deep down, they are really nervous and insecure (one on one) because it's a defense mechanism.  They are actually pretty self conscious - despite being outgoing and seemingly comfortable in the spotlight.  Absolutely mouth-watering, I must say.

Anyway, it's all half-baked in my head, but I think there's something there....at the very least, I'm interested to hear what femdoms and subs think about self consciousness in general.

Akasha



I've been told that my... aloofness is "incredibly sexy". (Think: "He doesn't even know he's sexy/cute/whatever") I'm not sure if that would be considered the same thing as being self concious though.

From a sub perspective, I personally find it incredibly frustrating. Mainly because some women are quick to brush someone off when said person is self concious about something - even more so with physical "defects".




Lockit -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 11:05:57 AM)

Let me see if I can explain this in any way that makes sense. It's my morning so that is debatable. lol

I can see this in different ways. I want someone vulnerable to me and with me in the sense that we share emotions where we could be hurt by the other. I want someone who responds to me with vulnerability but not insecurity. Insecurity can be balanced, as we all have it somewhere in life, but a deeply rooted insecurity tells me there may be damage or a self focus that may be out of perspective. Someone very insecure can be so self focused on what makes them insecure, that they cannot see me, what I say or do because their focus is on themselves.

Confidence can grow and mature as we do, but I've found that many who lack confidence aren't just needing some encouragement and it is deeply rooted and can take a long time to balance out. I also have found that a man that is insecure to the point of shaking in fear doesn't turn me on or make a real good lover. I met a man who was wonderful to talk to and everything seemed great. So we went for the meeting in person. The man shook for two days! He shook so much from insecurity that he couldn't open a window or bring a cup of coffee without shaking so much he couldn't do what he was trying to do. I gave it days to help him feel comfortable. The way he talked didn't show the insecurity at all. I didn't take it as a compliment that he was so effected by me. It had nothing to do with me and was all about him.

Someone a bit shy or not real sure I can deal with, but someone shy or insecure because of not being comfortable with themselves that doesn't ease up given a bit of time and assurance, I'm sorry, but that is too much for me to take on in a relationship.



LadyPact -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 11:08:39 AM)

Oddly enough, I don't find self-consciousness to be sexy at all.  I know.  That doesn't especially seem like something you'd expect a Dominant woman to say.

Vulnerability, however, is not a synonym.  I would see self-consciousness as not realizing the power or confidence that a person has under normal conditions.  Vulnerability is the reaction that can be the result of an outside influence taking that power away.  For example, if I restrain someone and introduce the element of fear (yummy) this has everything to do with taking their abilities away.  The ability to have freedom of movement.  The ability to determine what will happen to them.  Their ability to control their environment.  This has nothing to do with the way they react when they have those abilities.  I find that to be something much different entirely.



ReginaMirus -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 11:25:40 AM)

Yeah, not a fan of self-conscious, either. Rendered helpless and vulnerable? Yummy. But I expect my man to hold his head up high, I don't want someone that really deep down is completely ashamed of himself. Self depricating talk insults me, and makes me think I've made the wrong choice when it comes to choosing who will be the recipient of my complete and undivided attention.

He wouldn't tolerate self-conscious behavior from me, why shouldn't I expect the same?



PeonForHer -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 6:33:34 PM)

Introverts who've learned to appear extroverted aren't uncommon. It's pretty necessary, in order for us to get on in life. You can learn enough to get by, but it always feels like work. The ironic thing - and I hear this is common, too - is it's often easier to shine in a very big group than in a smaller one. And one-to-one can be the hardest of all. That last never struck me more than when I was watching Freddie Mercury doing one of his rare interviews - it was downright painful to see. The poor man wanted to be anywhere other than where he was.

I guess it's not difficult to explain why one-to-one with a potential partner doesn't work so well: you suddenly realise that 'acting it' isn't going to cut it . . . .






AAkasha -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 7:51:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Introverts who've learned to appear extroverted aren't uncommon. It's pretty necessary, in order for us to get on in life. You can learn enough to get by, but it always feels like work. The ironic thing - and I hear this is common, too - is it's often easier to shine in a very big group than in a smaller one. And one-to-one can be the hardest of all. That last never struck me more than when I was watching Freddie Mercury doing one of his rare interviews - it was downright painful to see. The poor man wanted to be anywhere other than where he was.

I guess it's not difficult to explain why one-to-one with a potential partner doesn't work so well: you suddenly realise that 'acting it' isn't going to cut it . . . .






A lot of actors and musicians are painfully shy when they are not performing, like you point out. 

The responses have got me thinking about what I mean by self conscious, because I think some people view it as a negative thing, and I get that -- I mean someone who is all concerned about themselves and are insecure. That's not what I mean. I am talking about the kind of *humble* self consciousness that is very precious.  It's when a guy is nervous but it's honest.

It's the kind of man that you know is brave, and confident, and classy, but he shakes with fear because he doesn't want to fail (you), he doesn't want to be seen as less than. He wants to do the right thing.  Helplessness makes him uneasy, because he's afraid of the vulnerability.  I have seen men with big egos, they just get kind of obnoxious about submission. Or the other kinds, they get too self indulgent.  Then there are the extroverts who are not self conscious - they are true performers, and they take to submission (I should say, to "bottoming") like it's a big project, 'Look at ME! bring it on! more baby! woo hoO! should I beg more! How about barking, WOOF WOOF! Is that what you like?'  I mean they are honestly, bless their heart, *shameless*. 

There is something deeply attractive to me about a man who is uncomfortable.  He's uncomfortable because he's being real with me, and that means being vulnerable.  When I say he is self conscious, what he's showing me is his raw emotion - fear of being embarrassed (the kind that doesn't get him hard), fear of being a failure, fear of not being in control.

I will have to think on it some more.  I was just reminded of it recently when harmlessly flirting with a new friend who is just such a huge extrovert, totally shameless, the life of the party - I know he'd do *anything* kinky and view it as "fun!," but I wonder if deep down, also, he's one of those very shy types who (in a closed room) would be so timid, during the moment of truth, so to speak.

Akasha



SweetDommes -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/20/2010 8:44:02 PM)

I don't know that I like self-consciousness, but I do love a blushing boy ... definite turn-on for me. If I manage to make him blush without trying, even better (there is a guy at work like that ... I so want to take him home with me).



porcelaine -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/21/2010 12:16:55 PM)

AAkasha,

quote:

Subs:  What does self consciousness feel like to you?


In roleplay it works fine. I was often a self conscious little girl with Daddy. However, outside of that context I'd say it's probably an area of sensitivity, insecurity, or some measure of uncertainty. Whether that's good or bad depends on how far I'm leaning and if it's a real hot button for me or a source of excessive timidity.

quote:

Then I realized, that's the big contradiction - there are a lot of men who are pretty extroverted and confident, but deep down, they are really nervous and insecure (one on one) because it's a defense mechanism.  They are actually pretty self conscious - despite being outgoing and seemingly comfortable in the spotlight.  Absolutely mouth-watering, I must say.


I see this on the dominant side as well. Men with that trait are often really good mind fucks. It usually plays out in two ways. He gets a girl that's very self conscious and exploits it or finds one on the opposite end of the spectrum. Those that go for the latter are often into dismantling. They usually choose the strong types, assertive girls with a keen sense of self. I suppose the challenge of bringing her to the place you speak of (or uncovering it if you will) is a big turn on.

Needless to say I've met a few. :)

~porcelaine



LadyAngelika -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/22/2010 11:55:57 AM)

quote:

Then I realized, that's the big contradiction - there are a lot of men who are pretty extroverted and confident, but deep down, they are really nervous and insecure (one on one) because it's a defense mechanism.  They are actually pretty self conscious - despite being outgoing and seemingly comfortable in the spotlight.  Absolutely mouth-watering, I must say.


I love, love, love strong confident men. And I love, love, love dominating them. The way in which I get to flip the tables is when I manage to throw them off their game and the best way to do that is to get to that little no-so-secure nugget within them, behind that big strong persona, and give it a little pinch to make him boldly aware that I've found it. And then, at that very moment, self consciousness in a man is deadly hot.

- LA



Wheldrake -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/22/2010 2:12:48 PM)

I've always thought of vulnerability and self-consciousness as very different things. Vulnerability is the result of being unable to protect myself from some kind of possible threat. If the threat doesn't extend beyond safe, sane, consensual torture, vulnerability can feel exciting and sexy.

Self-consciousness is usually the result of not being sure whether I'm doing the sensible and/or socially acceptable thing, in the judgement of those around me. I often feel this way when I'm trying to work with someone looking over my shoulder, or in social interactions with large numbers of people - I'm fine with structured situations like public speaking, but the fluid give-and-take of group conversations often throws me off.

I almost never feel self-conscious when I'm talking to just one other person, or to a few people that I know reasonably well. However, I imagine that it wouldn't be too hard for a dominant to make me feel self-conscious, if she really wanted to. Giving me a task and then staring at me as I worked on it might do the trick, especially if the instructions were ambiguous enough to leave me uncertain about exactly what I was supposed to do. I definitely wouldn't enjoy this, which of course makes the possibility kind of delicious to contemplate.



PeonForHer -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/22/2010 3:51:04 PM)

Akasha,

I kept pondering on your last post, wondering if there was anything useful I could say in reply, and wondering also if you even needed something useful said in reply.

Well, anyway, a few thoughts.



quote:



A lot of actors and musicians are painfully shy when they are not performing, like you point out. 

The responses have got me thinking about what I mean by self conscious, because I think some people view it as a negative thing, and I get that -- I mean someone who is all concerned about themselves and are insecure. That's not what I mean. I am talking about the kind of *humble* self consciousness that is very precious.  It's when a guy is nervous but it's honest.



Actors, especially, are often considered to have quite an advantage by being introverted. This is because when you're put together that way you're a lot more concious of what's happening with your face and body. By the time you reach adulthood, it's 'second nature' to control your face and body in a way that it isn't for extroverts. For extroverts, the way their facial expressions are formed, and the way their bodies work, comes from 'first nature'. That is, they've never really thought about it.

Or, at least, that's true of some introverts. It's roughly the point that Anthony Hopkins made when I saw him being interviewed recently.

And no, there's nothing inherently 'negative' about being introverted. It isn't a synonym for 'shy' - or it wasn't, anyway, for Carl Jung, who first theorised about 'introversion' and 'extroversion'. Something different happened when the behaviourists got hold of the terms - particularly Eysenck - but I don't know much about them (mainly because I don't care much about them) and its a rough version of their senses of 'introversion' and 'extroversion', rather than Jung's, that's used in everyday parlance nowadays.

Right, that's the wind over with . . . . [;)]


quote:


It's the kind of man that you know is brave, and confident, and classy, but he shakes with fear because he doesn't want to fail (you), he doesn't want to be seen as less than. He wants to do the right thing.  Helplessness makes him uneasy, because he's afraid of the vulnerability.  I have seen men with big egos, they just get kind of obnoxious about submission. Or the other kinds, they get too self indulgent.  Then there are the extroverts who are not self conscious - they are true performers, and they take to submission (I should say, to "bottoming") like it's a big project, 'Look at ME! bring it on! more baby! woo hoO! should I beg more! How about barking, WOOF WOOF! Is that what you like?'  I mean they are honestly, bless their heart, *shameless*. 

There is something deeply attractive to me about a man who is uncomfortable.  He's uncomfortable because he's being real with me, and that means being vulnerable.  When I say he is self conscious, what he's showing me is his raw emotion - fear of being embarrassed (the kind that doesn't get him hard), fear of being a failure, fear of not being in control.


That last line sentence just about encapsulates it. It feels very, very different to be talking to a woman who's interested (romantically, sexually - anything but platonically) She will look too much into the face, stand too close, touch, stroke . . . . It feels roughly as it used to feel when I was a kid, being tickled. I feel like I'm being prodded, poked and pinched, on parts of the body that I'd forgotten were even ticklish.

quote:

I will have to think on it some more.  I was just reminded of it recently when harmlessly flirting with a new friend who is just such a huge extrovert, totally shameless, the life of the party - I know he'd do *anything* kinky and view it as "fun!," but I wonder if deep down, also, he's one of those very shy types who (in a closed room) would be so timid, during the moment of truth, so to speak.


Yes. If you haven't discovered this already, then you might do soon: he could easily be the sort who'll suddenly panic in a one-to-one situation. I don't think you'd have much trouble finding a chink in his armour (if he's wearing armour, that is). Once you find the chink, you only have to stick your finger in and tickle the spot. Er, so to speak. [;)]



Lucienne -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/22/2010 4:47:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

There is something deeply attractive to me about a man who is uncomfortable.  He's uncomfortable because he's being real with me, and that means being vulnerable.  When I say he is self conscious, what he's showing me is his raw emotion - fear of being embarrassed (the kind that doesn't get him hard), fear of being a failure, fear of not being in control.



This thread is a bit of a mind fuck for me. Because I think I get what you're saying Akasha, and totally agree that such an attitude is attractive in a mate. But then I think about myself and I'm very aware that my own self-consciousness is, for me, the enemy of positive sexuality. Standing outside myself and viewing my actions with a critical eye disrupts my experience. Part of the joy of sex for me is tossing aside that self-consciousness and just... being. And consistent with Peon's observations on Jungian archetypes (yah!), I wonder how much of that is the fact that I am an introvert and I am very aware of the degree to which I have adapted to the world and the limited degree to which I really do just get to be my unfiltered self. So I'm left wondering why I value in others  something (self-consciousness) that I actively avoid in myself. Sexually speaking. Harumph.



Politesub53 -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/22/2010 7:00:29 PM)

At times I blush and become very self consious. To be honest It isnt something I can control but it IS bloody irritating.

I was in a local shop one day. One of the female assistants was holding a riding crop. I made some wisecrack and she threatend to use it. Her friend said " No, he looks like he would enjoy it too much" I left to howls of laughter and was as red as a London bus.



JhonDean -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/25/2010 2:52:57 PM)

quote:

love, love, love strong confident men. And I love, love, love dominating them. The way in which I get to flip the tables is when I manage to throw them off their game and the best way to do that is to get to that little no-so-secure nugget within them, behind that big strong persona, and give it a little pinch to make him boldly aware that I've found it. And then, at that very moment, self consciousness in a man is deadly hot.


The males projection of being a bit shy unassuming or even ill at ease is assertiveness’s neutralizer, shifts the balance of power and offers the opportunity to selectively extend it. Just as quite strength requires no heralding one cannot exert power over one without power.



ChainsNpains -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/25/2010 4:50:12 PM)

ok just throwing my perspective out there... I see myself as very self-conscious. The way my life as panned out so far it's natural to me. I've ALWAYS been shy, and especially shy toward pretty girls. It KILLS me to break the ice with a girl. I believe because I've been shot down so many times... all the girls I've approached have must of either found me unattractive/too shy/timid. I get nervous because I am rarely around attractive women and when I want to talk to one I feel like I HAVE to impress her, I must show her I'm worthy... but I guess I put too much pressure on myself and end up looking stupid. I've never had a real girlfriend in my life (I'm 20) and I think that really hurts me. It's like trying to ask out a girl for the very first time, except that's how I feel every time. It's hard to gain confidence in one's self if one's self is being discouraged and put down all the time... Sooo to the ladies that find self-consciousness attractive, PLEASE MESSAGE ME! ([It's a lot easier to talk to someone on the internet, I'm not self conscious here] In real life its much different). And for the Ladies who find self consciousness unattractive PLEASE don't put us down! You don't have to say "yes" but at least say "no" respectfully/kindly....



OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/25/2010 5:23:50 PM)

quote:


At the same time, I tend to be attracted to men with a lot of confidence and a natural desire to 'perform.' Men that were probably a class clown in school, were very extroverted, very comfortable addressing groups of people, very animated. I realize looking back at some of the men I've been drawn to, it was incredibly exciting to find a man with that extrovert, "no fear," personality (in groups) who was uncharacteristically self conscious and vulnerable in one-on-one scenarios.


This reminds me of  a comment Carly Simon made once about Warren Beatty.  Something like "First, I thought Warren was an egomaniac.  Then, I thought he was a vulnerable, sweet guy posing as an egomaniac so he didn't get hurt.  I realized too late he was an egomaniac posing as a vulnerable guy posing as an egomaniac."

The reason this topic hit me was that at a certain point it became clear that what you call "self-consciousness" (I didn't really have a term for it, or at least not a better one) is, for me, pretty much the first step toward feelings of real devotion toward a woman.  My brain is a glib and bombastic narrator.  My normal stream of consciousness is rapid fire and very often self-serving.  I mean I'm kind and decent and all that but at the end of the day, I just decline to pay the psychic toll involved in really connecting with most people.  I really find it easier to just control scenarios and show off my own skills and cleverness and take a bow.

quote:

There is something deeply attractive to me about a man who is uncomfortable.  He's uncomfortable because he's being real with me, and that means being vulnerable.  When I say he is self conscious, what he's showing me is his raw emotion - fear of being embarrassed (the kind that doesn't get him hard), fear of being a failure, fear of not being in control.


A moment of self-consiousness, for me, is a tiny crisis in my big brain that is resolved in an unusual, unfamiliar way.  It's dizzying, vertiginous, because my brain is very well adapted to making certain kinds of calculations and decisions; and when something happens that obliterates that protocol everything shuts down and I honestly have no idea what to do.  It's the sudden realization that I have an urgent need to please the woman I'm involved with, and that not pleasing her is not acceptable--not because it reflects poorly on me or doesn't get me what I want, but simply because her displeasure is an inherently unacceptable outcome.

It's jaw droppingly scary and overwhelming because every time I have a moment like this, it's a reiteration of the fact that there will be times when I am emotionally (and physically) uncomfortable, even wounded, in order for my partner to have what she wants.  It's possible that it will even happen simply because seeing me uncomfortable or worse is what she wants at a particular moment.  It's one thing to have my face slapped by a woman I'm attracted to--that's hot.  But it's another thing to realize that if necessary I'm going to be subjugating my urges and needs to make my partner happy.  That's a kind of ego death for me.  There's no way to put it other than "That shit freaks me the fuck out." Every moment of self-consciousness recapitulates those feelings.  Every time I'm made fully and poignantly aware of the situation (either deliberately or accidentally) it's like a kiss on the lips and a kick in the nuts at the same time.  In some ways, it's a brilliant feeling.  It's tender and savage at the same time.  But it's also about as easy as a nuclear war.

I think a succession of moments of self-consciousness around a woman is necessary to lead up to a sense of true and consuming devotion.  The moments can also be totally isolated--the realization that, right at a certain point in time all you care about is making this woman happy but that this feeling, too, is transitory.  I'm at the age where these kinds of isolated moments of stray  self-consciousness hold less and less appeal for me.  They also happen very infrequently because my focus tends to be more on the context and texture of an extended dynamic rather than a single brilliant brief moment. 




Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/25/2010 7:57:55 PM)

i would describe myself as highly confident and self-assured.  Yet, when i am meeting a potential Domme for the first time, i am usually quite self-conscious.  In fact, the more attracted i am to her, the worse the problem becomes.  i hate when this happens.  i find myself thinking "Stop being so awkward!  You're cooler than this.  You're smoother than this".  But the more conscious i become of it, the worse it sometimes becomes.  i also feel like my nervousness is a dead giveaway that i like Her.  It makes me feel especially vulnerable.  i feel like She can tell that i have butterflies in my stomach.  i think She knows that i want to please and impress Her, and i believe that it definitely gives Her the upper hand.

Besides first meetings, i am very self-conscious in forced feminization situations.  i am a jock-type, so i don't like forced feminization.  So if you ever want to make me nervous and self-conscious, simply tell me that you are going to feminize me and then take me shopping for girly things.  i will be a complete wreck.  i always find myself hiding my face from the Saleswomen, and i am constantly looking to make sure i don't see anyone i know.

And you don't even want to know how vulnerable and self-conscious i become if you actually ask me to try something on.  Forced fem is one of my least favorite kinks, but it's probably the one that makes me the most self-conscious, nervous, and insecure.

i'm not positive, but i think that may be the type of self-consciousness that you are talking about, Akasha.  Those situations completely strip me of my composure and make me behave like an unsure spaz.



mysteryshopper -> RE: Is self-consciousness sexy? (5/25/2010 9:32:20 PM)

If he's self-conscious, it means he cares what you think, and wants you to approve...which means he likes you and looks up to you, which is always a bonus. :)



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