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RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 11:18:53 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
Mutual slavery could be completely possible if we introduce additional rule: No one can give orders about giving orders!

How about more generically, "both parties must operate in good faith". And then when you put it that way, there's no need to state that rule. Honestly, if that rule isn't a bedrock principle for both people then no sort of relationship works well.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 21

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 11:28:20 AM

ReginaMirus

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I think this would be easier to understand were it considered a dominant/dominant couple. Maybe? I dunno.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 22

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 11:41:43 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I don't know. I'm part of something of a D/D couple and I couldn't translate it.

It seems to Me that the concept of slavery has everything to do with a power imbalance relationship. In the examples given, there is no power imbalance. Both partners would have equal ability of control over the other. The minute one of them wanted to get into a power struggle, the premise drops.

Order Me to eat oranges tonight. Cool. My next order is that you will clean the kitchen and remove the fruit from the house. Any person with half a brain could easily find ways not to be controlled. This comes a little too close to the territory of a person being a slave only in those areas that they want to obey.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ReginaMirus)

Post #: 23

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 11:46:19 AM

leadership527

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I don't know... it seems pretty straight forward to me. Both people tell the other what to do. They both act in good faith (which in this case would include not deliberately impeding the rightful authority of the other). I grant, it's unusual, but I see no generic reason why it is not functional and couldn't work for someone. As I noted, since I'm not real big on the whole "all-wise, all-knowing master" gig, it fits Carol and I in limited ways.

Honestly, my opinion is that humans are endlessly varied and endless complex. I somehow doubt that the description given by the OP would actually fit the detailed reality any more than "master/slave" fits the detailed reality of Carol and I. But at the surface level, I see no reason why it could not work perfectly well.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to ReginaMirus)

Post #: 24

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:18:59 PM

Jeffff

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While I suppose there are folks who really would enjoy this kinda thing, I am not amoung them.

Life is short, I want what I want when and how I want it. I WILL have it. Feel free to order me not to,

See how that works for ya...:)

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 25

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:19:44 PM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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This whole discussion makes my head hurt.

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[page 23 girl]

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Post #: 26

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:24:16 PM

Frankseas

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Sorry but no matter how it is presented or worded it wont work as it is a oxymoron. Master and slave...slave and Master. Never have heard of a Master and Master dynamic! Sounds a lot like our goverment like who the hell would be in charge??

Try being at a Munch when two Masters that respect each other dis-agree it can get quite heated.

But will try to understan your concept more as I have lots of time while on vacation! (too much maybe)

< Message edited by Frankseas -- 5/20/2010 12:25:14 PM >

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 27

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:26:39 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

As has been noted: heck yeah- its called marriage.

Love enslaves us all. :o)

Whether in an owner/slave relationship or a vanilla one, each partner (ideally) serves the other's needs, as a part of serving their own.

(edited for clarification)

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 5/20/2010 12:28:39 PM >

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(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 28

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:28:29 PM

SimplyMichael

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There is a lesbian couple close to me that sort of does this. One woman is both Master and little girl to the other who is both her slave and her Daddy.

They do it well and it is hot to see them together as they have very cool energy.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 29

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:29:31 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

While I suppose there are folks who really would enjoy this kinda thing, I am not amoung them.

Life is short, I want what I want when and how I want it. I WILL have it. Feel free to order me not to,

See how that works for ya...:)

This comment very much reminds Me of the type of response My husband gives in those situations where people who have none want to enforce some unfounded authority over Me. He always says the same thing.

"You go tell her that. Good luck."

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 30

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:42:29 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Mutual slavery could be completely possible if we introduce additional rule:
No one can give orders about giving orders!

ok... how about

A We must eat vegetables becaue they are good for us!

B We must not eat vegetables because they taste horrible!

As I said... it gets rather complex this mutal slavery kinda of thing.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 31

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:48:42 PM

blueeyedbbwsub

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Joined: 12/9/2009
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I know I'm still feeling the effects of the nitrous oxyde I received yesterday. But I'm sure that in an even frame of mind (OK, me, even frame of mind = not happening) I'd still be confused all to hell and it still wouldn't make any sense.

Just my opinion, and today it's not much of one.

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fuzzballed goondorker

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 32

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:51:14 PM

porcelaine

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SocratesNot,

quote:

They wouldn't switch. They would be in both roles simultaneously.

I don't think you understood what I implied. If they switch they are calling on a different set of behaviors and responses in their head. If he's being obedient to her he is not responding to his dominant nature. He's calling upon the submissive one. That doesn't mean the dominant one goes away. He's just not using it in *that* instance.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Post #: 33

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 12:53:06 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I don't know... it seems pretty straight forward to me. Both people tell the other what to do. They both act in good faith (which in this case would include not deliberately impeding the rightful authority of the other). I grant, it's unusual, but I see no generic reason why it is not functional and couldn't work for someone. As I noted, since I'm not real big on the whole "all-wise, all-knowing master" gig, it fits Carol and I in limited ways.

Honestly, my opinion is that humans are endlessly varied and endless complex. I somehow doubt that the description given by the OP would actually fit the detailed reality any more than "master/slave" fits the detailed reality of Carol and I. But at the surface level, I see no reason why it could not work perfectly well.

I think people acting in good faith is necessary in any relationship that people are trying to succeed, wouldn't you agree? But having good faith doesn't make a distinction why/how this particular type of relationship can/would succeed in comparison to the non-mutual slavery model. I believe it can work IF the proper foundation blocks are in place on how the authority would be exercise between them. The difficult from my perspective is that even when I give an order to my girls it affects me. There is no getting around it. I am a secondary affect to the orders I give my girls. In a Mutual slavery situation, this secondary affect can't be against the primary affect of another order. And that is what makes it complex but complex is not impossible.. but complex does mean the skill sets of those attempting it should be rather developed in my opinion.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 34

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 1:01:44 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
A We must eat vegetables becaue they are good for us!

I thought about that too Knight. But then I realized that neither party had any authority over "we". Such a command is not within scope. Heh, don't get me wrong, this is a theoretical construct for me, but so long as everyone operated in good faith and within their proper scope I don't see why it can't work.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 1:13:30 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I thought about that too Knight. But then I realized that neither party had any authority over "we". Such a command is not within scope. Heh, don't get me wrong, this is a theoretical construct for me, but so long as everyone operated in good faith and within their proper scope I don't see why it can't work.

I agree.. but it is the establishment of the scope that is neccessary along with the individuals taking action in good faith which speaks to their integrity and authenticity.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 36

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 1:23:42 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

This whole discussion makes my head hurt.

Agreed.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 37

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 1:29:21 PM

laurell3

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I WILL have it. Feel free to order me not to,

See how that works for ya...:)

ok Jefffffff you may not have it

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 38

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 1:31:52 PM

Jeffff

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Tough talk from 500 miles away...:)

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 39

RE: Mutual Slavery - is it possible? - 5/20/2010 1:33:35 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

It could be done from a few hundred miles closer...

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 40

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