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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/21/2010 2:46:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		The Euro should be at .50 cents to the Dollar.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/21/2010 8:09:56 PM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I never understood how the Euro could work, I mean, if countries in Europe didn't like each other or trust each other, why join up with them in something as important as economy. Could anyone imagine if Britain would have joined the Euro, everyone it seems hates us, and the french particularly have an axe to grind it seems. Mind who can blame them with Winston Churchills  V for victory hand sign, as seen from the rear, it is an age old insult to the french. Something along the lines of we have two fingers, and we can use them.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/21/2010 10:40:09 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent



The Krauts aren't happy bailing out the Greeks....the Spanish are bordering on collapse....the English wish it wasn't there and just want to keep everyone else out of this island....and the French just aren't happy as per usual. It's a recipe for chaos.



And they have a right to be! How it happened in the first place is beyond me.

One only had to look as the disparity between the retirement ages in Germany and Greece…what almost 12-13 years?

Why should a 65 year old working German pay for the retirement of a 55 year old Greek?

The Pro's had to have seen this from the beginning and yet…the whole “we’ll worry about that later” mentality ruled the day and useful idiots who had no idea about what was going on shouted down any detractors as xenophobes.





< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 5/21/2010 10:41:03 PM >

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/21/2010 11:40:06 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
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Status: offline 		I am waiting for the Amero....

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 2:17:05 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent



The Krauts aren't happy bailing out the Greeks....the Spanish are bordering on collapse....the English wish it wasn't there and just want to keep everyone else out of this island....and the French just aren't happy as per usual. It's a recipe for chaos.



And they have a right to be! How it happened in the first place is beyond me.

One only had to look as the disparity between the retirement ages in Germany and Greece…what almost 12-13 years?

Why should a 65 year old working German pay for the retirement of a 55 year old Greek?

The Pro's had to have seen this from the beginning and yet…the whole “we’ll worry about that later” mentality ruled the day and useful idiots who had no idea about what was going on shouted down any detractors as xenophobes.



Because the Germans are doing what the British have done and what the Americans do....

That being the Germans are paying for leadership of the EU......they're buying it.....part and parcel of international diplomacy....

During WW1 Woodrow Wilson said something like:  "just keep lending to the British and soon they will be dancing to our tune"....

The Americans do that today.....throw a bit of money round here and there.....and call in the debt in a non-monetary fashion at a later date....

The British did it for centuries....

The Germans are doing it with the European Union.......it isn't a relationship of equals.....it's a German led customs union.....with France as second in command and Britain caught between a rock and a hard place.....we want them to do things our way but we don't want the EU having decision making authority over our foreign policy and economic policy....we're sort of half in and half out....we're not in the Eurozone and we have retained decision making authority that other European powers do not have.

To clear up your confusion.....it happened because the Germans want their place in the sun as the largest economy in the Europe and due to being at the heart of Europe in geographical terms too.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 2:40:58 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		I agree.   The French are a moody bunch. 

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 2:49:12 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		The Euro is a stupid idea. You can't have one currency and then have independent nations under it. With the Euro, it either needs to go away, or all the nations need to give up the vast amount of their decision making ability to the Federal government equivalent.

Essentially, it has to be like the US, and the states. As in States are given lip service of "power" and some "autonomy" but at the end of the day they are meaningless and powerless.

As in the US their is only one meaningful power structure and that is the Federal Government. We already had a war over this stuff, which tested the theory of United Highly Independent states. Obviously, eventually the states have different needs, desires, motivations, economies and had the power to try to do something about it. Europe is in the same position, though different reasons.

So, if Europe wants this to work, they have to convince all of Europe  to give up most of their power to an artificial Federal Bureaucracy and leave what is called Germany, or France to do the bland secretarial management of the serfs. Good Luck.

My hope is that they abandon the Euro.. We don't need anymore superpowers clashing egos in this world.





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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 2:57:49 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The dynamics of Europe are different then America.   (duh)

US tends to be less fractionalized as we do not have a history of thousands of years of riffs.  (yet)


The very essence of America - according to one pundit- is to save extended EU civilization from itself.   Specifically- the banking cartel.   Of course we woefully are failing right now.

There is a bright spot- the Illuminati is fighting among itself.  This threatens a one world govt..  Massive bloodshed is on the table per one world govt.. SO quite possibly we bought some time.

In another thread peak oil came up- I do think a decline would be gradual over a few decades- rather then wake up the next day.

All in all- the woes of today have been brewing for many years- and this collapse is part of it- you could say 1971,  pick a day- the point is that most our life the decline has been.

The good thing about bail outs- is that- the old people will die off- still in bliss.    Then later the new generation- a more humble one- will have to rebuild.

Say what you want about my posts- but no man or nation is immune from the folly of greed and the gravity of history repeating itself.


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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 3:02:05 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well put NG.

Germany was the worlds largest exporter for a few years this decade. China has recently overtaken Germany. Both have the same system that the UK and USA have used in the past. Grant loans to poorer countries so they can buy the goods you produce. It is a win win situation, until someone starts to default on the payments. The problem with it, is sooner or later, that will happen.

I dont see how the Euro will work as single currency until all the member countires have indentical social and fiscal policies. Water finds its own level, and so do the markets.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 8:41:15 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		Well it would appear then the German People have a different idea of what "Germany" wants

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 8:14:20 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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From The New York Times -

(bold emphasis mine)

quote:

Crisis Imperils Liberal Benefits Long Expected by Europeans

PARIS — Across Western Europe, the “lifestyle superpower,” the assumptions and gains of a lifetime are suddenly in doubt. The deficit crisis that threatens the euro has also undermined the sustainability of the European standard of social welfare, built by left-leaning governments since the end of World War II.

Europeans have benefited from low military spending, protected by NATO and the American nuclear umbrella. They have also translated higher taxes into a cradle-to-grave safety net. “The Europe that protects” is a slogan of the European Union. But all over Europe governments with big budgets, falling tax revenues and aging populations are experiencing rising deficits, with more bad news ahead.


With low growth, low birthrates and longer life expectancies, Europe can no longer afford its comfortable lifestyle, at least not without a period of austerity and significant changes. The countries are trying to reassure investors by cutting salaries, raising legal retirement ages, increasing work hours and reducing health benefits and pensions. “We’re now in rescue mode,” said Carl Bildt, Sweden’s foreign minister. “But we need to transition to the reform mode very soon. The ‘reform deficit’ is the real problem,” he said, pointing to the need for structural change.

<snip>


Full story at: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/world/europe/23europe.html?hp



"Rescue mode" by the way = Conservatism.



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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 8:37:20 PM   
realcoolhand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Paper beats rock, everyone knows that.




Sorry guys; a note that returns a secure 20% would beat gold any old day.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/22/2010 8:41:07 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I agree.   The French are a moody bunch. 


That's because pouting is sexier than a Walmart photo grin.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 7:21:37 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Something along the lines of we have two fingers, and we can use them.

I'm not sure that's true. It has been suggested that the v sign is demonstrating that you still have the two fingers needed to draw a bowstring (which the Normans were at one point in the habit of cutting off any of the Sacxon peasantry they suspected of poaching, insurgency or just looking at them funny) but I don't think it's ever been proven one way or the other.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 7:24:20 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I hope the Euro survives if it's existence annoys sanity this much.

We all know it will anyway because there is no plan b.


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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 7:43:16 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I do wonder why Greece hasn't just been thrown out of the euro until they get their currency under control instead of all of this bollocks that's happening instead.

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 7:48:02 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Because MH, the spivs and speculators would not be stopped by such action - they would simply move to the next in line, and if that were Spain or Portugal and Ireland together then no rescue would be possible and the whole thing would collapse for sure. Heaven forbid anyone looks at Italy too - a nightmare that dwarfs all the others combined.

E

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 8:09:46 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Funny isn't it this speculation because nobody is looking at Californian debt level when it comes to valuing the dollar.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy, anyone that thinks there is any long term reasoning to the value put on currency is nuts.


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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 8:14:49 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Its all relative is the thing to remember

Also to remember is that those who manipulate speculations hold much of their interests in USD - if its observed they start divesting themselves of assets so denominated then we may expect the USD to be next on the hit list - but then theyre hardly likely to do that because no matter how quickly or slowly they did it, it would affect them - they need to keep the USD stable or on the up, not because it is stable or worth more but because turkeys rarely vote for Christmas (or Thanksgiving).

E

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RE: Euro, RIP? - 5/23/2010 12:58:52 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Paper beats rock, everyone knows that.




Sorry guys; a note that returns a secure 20% would beat gold any old day.


I do own a small amount of gold, and a decent amount of silver.

You will have to pry it out of my cold dead hands.  

20% junk bonds ?   Not for me.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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