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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 12:57:32 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

If such questions are directed at me, it may be that I am unaware of them as CM hides the posts of one or two people in this thread from my view.


CM has not hidden them, you have. Being the supergenious you claim to be, one would think the need to lie about such a small thing would be beneath you.




Well in all fairness, he might not be lying. I certainly wouldn't put it past him to forget how the Hide button works, being the supergenious that he claims to be.



This definition makes the best sense.

almost genius - gets things done with hard work.

genius - gets things done with no effort.

super genius - does nothing because of absolute understanding of the essence of everything.


http://definitionofagenius.com/

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 3:09:01 PM   
Rule


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Today in the Dutch news:

quote:

De artsenorganisatie KNMG wil het besnijden van minderjarige jongens krachtig gaan ontmoedigen. Besnijdenis van jongens zonder medische redenen is in strijd met het recht op autonomie en het recht op lichamelijke integriteit, aldus de KNMG donderdag.

De artsenfederatie roept artsen op om ouders die de ingreep overwegen ,,actief en indringend op de hoogte te brengen van het ontbreken van medische voordelen en het gevaar van complicaties.'' Volgens voorzitter Arie Nieuwenhuijzen Kruseman van de KNMG is de regel dat je niet in gezonde kinderen snijdt.

Besnijdenis kent kans op complicaties, zoals bloedingen, infecties, plasbuisvernauwingen en ook paniekaanvallen.


Translation by Babel Fish yields gibberish.

So: The Dutch medical association wants to strongly discourage the circumcision of under age boys. Circumcision violates the autonomy and the physical integrity of the boy. It calls on physicians to actively and strongly tell parents about the lack of medical advantages and the risk of complications. The practical and sensible rule is to not perform surgery on healthy children.

Circumcision can cause medical complications like bleeding, infections, urinal tube constrictions and panic attacks.

To which I add: read my earlier posts in this thread, as well as those of SirPumpy and heartcream and those of other opponents of circumcision. Also read the texts about circumcision written by Saint Paul that are in the New Testament.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/27/2010 3:22:51 PM >

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 8:41:16 PM   
Aneirin


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Don't forget adhesions and scarring left by unclean conditions.

But not all circumcisions go according to plan, things do go wrong and do cause many problems for later life, do you want to be responsible for that ?

I certainly am not too impressed with my parents being persuaded by the GP to get it done, but as they say, at that time people believed doctors know best.

But of the things that do go wrong , educate yourself, then decide if you want to risk screwing up someone's life.

http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/horror/horror.shtml

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/

So, only 1.5% to 15 % of infantile circumcisions go wrong, but what if your child is in that minority.




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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 8:56:39 PM   
tazzygirl


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Phimosis affects about one in twenty uncircumcised men.. far more than 15%.

Peyronie’s disease affects one in 100.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 9:11:31 PM   
Aneirin


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Circumcision is not always the answer though.

But I suppose medical science really has not got that far if it does not have an alternative cure for these conditions and so have to resort to barbaric practices to sort them out.

Oh, and I take it in saying men, you are referring to those who have the power of consent, if that is so, they can educate themselves and do what ever they want, their choice and on their head be it but what I am concerned about is infantile mutilation.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/27/2010 9:14:58 PM >


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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 9:21:57 PM   
tazzygirl


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This is the education given to millions of parents every year. Informed consent is required for a circumcision. Anesthisia is given.

YOU are the parent, looking at your bundle of joy. Being told the potential complications for getting and not getting a circumcision. YOU are told the pain at day one lasts a brief few moments. YOU are told the pain later in life could last days or weeks.

Now, do you have children?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 10:47:06 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is the education given to millions of parents every year. Informed consent is required for a circumcision. Anesthisia is given.

YOU are the parent, looking at your bundle of joy. Being told the potential complications for getting and not getting a circumcision. YOU are told the pain at day one lasts a brief few moments. YOU are told the pain later in life could last days or weeks.

Now, do you have children?


People have died from anaesthesia, and if too little is given pain will be felt, and in a sensitive part at that.

Yes, potential problems, and in later life the pain could last days or weeks, very much like pro circumcision scare tactics. On the other hand the infant could very well grow up intact and have a pain free life. Penis problems are like life itself, no one knows what the future holds. Now to me the mutilation of an infant for no other reason than a possibility of problems in later life is not good enough, a possibility is not a probability, and so does not warrant mutilation. But then if problems occur in later life, then maybe the person who has the problems might be old enough to make their own decisions and the possibility does exist that medical science might have moved on a bit by then and there might be other options should a problem occur.

I was circumcised as an infant, and it was not a trouble free episode, for it left damage caused by this flesh eating bug, which caused lesions which even today are a problem. Normal sexual intercourse they bleed every time, even masturbation is a problem due to the tissue where the bug ate being very thin and easily damaged. The other thing is the bastard surgeon that committed this act made a mess of it. No need to get piercings down there, for I already have natural piercings, which are a path to infection if not cleaned out regularly, which again breaks the iffy skin. I have investigated getting this stuff sorted out, but it is not available on the NHS, so private only, and last inquiry was £1500 or thereabouts. So, perhaps you can understand why I am so against this procedure. Oh, and I had night terrors as a kid, the dream was always the same, me in a cot in a hospital bawling my eyes out and in pain, but being told to shut up because I was keeping everyone else awake with my noise and being told by a nurse it doesn't hurt. Oddly that dream I remember to this day, and at the time, when asked to describe what I saw, I described an old Victorian hospital, even the nurses uniform was correct for that place., I was so glad when that place got pulled down.

Oh, and you asked if I had children, the answer to that is no, for I cannot have children, either I was born that way, or things didn't turn out as planned with the puberty thing which I went through at 10 years old.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/27/2010 11:10:05 PM >


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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 11:02:02 PM   
heartcream


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is the education given to millions of parents every year. Informed consent is required for a circumcision. Anesthisia is given.

YOU are the parent, looking at your bundle of joy. Being told the potential complications for getting and not getting a circumcision. YOU are told the pain at day one lasts a brief few moments. YOU are told the pain later in life could last days or weeks.

Now, do you have children?


People have died from anaesthesia, and if too little is given pain will be felt, and in a sensitive part at that.

Yes, potential problems, and in later life the pain could last days or weeks, very much like pro circumcision scare tactics. On the other hand the infant could very well grow up intact and have a pain free life. Penis problems are like life itself, no one knows what the future holds. Now to me the mutilation of an infant for no other reason than a possibility of problems in later life is not good enough, a possibility is not a probability, and so does not warrant mutilation. But then if problems occur in later life, then maybe the person who has the problems might be old enough to make their own decisions and the possibility does exist that medical science might have moved on a bit by then and there might be other options should a problem occur.

I was circumcised as an infant, and it was not a trouble free episode, for it left damage caused by this flesh eating bug, which caused lesions which even today are a problem. Normal sexual intercourse they bleed every time, even masturbation is a problem due to the tissue where the bug ate being very thin and easily damaged. The other thing is the bastard surgeon that committed this act made a mess of it. No need to get piercings down there, for I already have natural piercings, which are a path to infection if not cleaned out regularly, which again breaks the iffy skin. I have investigated getting this stuff sorted out, but it is not available on the NHS, so private only, and last inquiry was £1500 or thereabouts. So, perhaps you can understand why I am so against this procedure. Oh, and I had night terrors as a kid, the dream was always the same, me in a cot in a hospital bawling my eyes out and in pain, but being told to shut up because I was keeping everyone else awake with my noise and being told by a nurse it doesn't hurt. Oddly that dream I remember to this day, and at the time, when asked to describe what I saw, I described an old Victorian hospital, even the nurses uniform was correct for that place., I was so glad when that place got pulled down.



This is psychotically tragic Anerin. I am so very sorry for all the trauma you have suffered. I am so sorry.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/27/2010 11:05:19 PM   
heartcream


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is the education given to millions of parents every year. Informed consent is required for a circumcision. Anesthisia is given.

YOU are the parent, looking at your bundle of joy. Being told the potential complications for getting and not getting a circumcision. YOU are told the pain at day one lasts a brief few moments. YOU are told the pain later in life could last days or weeks.

Now, do you have children?


What up with the caps?

They lie. The pain does not last but a brief few moments. It affects the man and his society the entire rest of his life and bleeds into his kids life because the effects are that strong. Because you are not sensitive enough to see this does not make YOU right.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 12:19:02 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I havent read every word Rule has written but he comes across far less abrasive and out of it than some of the rest of you.

I suggest that you do read them. Were I you, I would pay particular attention to the parts about how the foreskin encourages STDs, and how that benefits society.
quote:

People who cant imagine what it means to have nerve receptors, basically the ability to feel, 10's of thousands of them cut off the wee boy body are people I am not going to want around me. Meanwhile subjecting his waking moments on the planet to surgery, to knives, to glaring lights, to exrtreme pain and violation of his precious body and even more tender genitals.

They key word here being 'imagine'. That said, if you think a delivery room in the average hospital uses soft candlelight and soothing waterfalls during delivery, you are quite mistaken.
quote:

I watch all you so-called logical normal people jump on Rule, call him crazy and everything, when to me each and everyone of you sound batzoid beyond help to me.

You really haven't read his posts, have you?
quote:

If Rule were crazy and you were not what does it say about you pointing your fingers at him and trying to humiliate and take him down? Fucking bullies. If he really is worse than you, nuttier than you why are you so eagerly and collectively so cruel?

Rule is Rule, this is an internet forum, and you are projecting.
quote:

I am ashamed of you and your kind. When you act like that I wish you would get on a space ship and go to some planet where they cut you up and wave guns around and act all bossy know it all pants all day long to each other.

You have obviously never been to New York City, lol.


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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 12:34:07 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is the education given to millions of parents every year. Informed consent is required for a circumcision. Anesthisia is given.

YOU are the parent, looking at your bundle of joy. Being told the potential complications for getting and not getting a circumcision. YOU are told the pain at day one lasts a brief few moments. YOU are told the pain later in life could last days or weeks.

Now, do you have children?


What up with the caps?

They lie. The pain does not last but a brief few moments. It affects the man and his society the entire rest of his life and bleeds into his kids life because the effects are that strong. Because you are not sensitive enough to see this does not make YOU right.


And yet our own small sample shows all the men who posted to this thread but two happy with the results of circumcision.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 12:58:44 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Yes, potential problems, and in later life the pain could last days or weeks, very much like pro circumcision scare tactics. On the other hand the infant could very well grow up intact and have a pain free life. Penis problems are like life itself, no one knows what the future holds. Now to me the mutilation of an infant for no other reason than a possibility of problems in later life is not good enough, a possibility is not a probability, and so does not warrant mutilation. But then if problems occur in later life, then maybe the person who has the problems might be old enough to make their own decisions and the possibility does exist that medical science might have moved on a bit by then and there might be other options should a problem occur.


And yet this decision is made by many parents everyday. Im sorry you went through all you did. Yours is not the typical result, and im sure you know this to be true. The circumcision procedure did not cause the necrotizing fascitis. In neonates, this can be caused by a number of reasons, including the cutting of the cord, fetal monitoring wires attached to the head during labor... NOHARMM makes it sound like its an everyday occurance. In 10 years of L&B/NBN/OB i did not see one case. Im not saying it cant happen, im just saying it is a rare occurance.

~FR

Having read through this link

http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/

I challenge any of you to read that section and find the misleading truths there.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/28/2010 1:10:52 AM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 5:41:25 AM   
Aneirin


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Yep, I know full well mine was a fuck up, I was one of the minority of cases that had complications, complications that have lasted this far into my life, 42years later, so that indicates of the small percentage of reported cases that go wrong, it is not very nice for the recipient, as each and every one of those minority percentage cases is a person with a life to live.

There is of course what the NOHARRM table of reported neonatal circumcision complications notes say;

Many of these complications go unreported by surgeons, either because they are not immediately recognized on the infant's tiny penis, or they are of little significance to surgeons who circumcise hundreds of male newborns annually. These usually remain unreported throughout a male's life due to his own ignorance of, or inhibitions to report, circumcision-related penile complications.

I agree with this note, for I also kept schtum, through ignorance and inhibition. As soon as I noticed things weren't quite right the thought of saying, ''hey Ma, there is something wrong with my dick'',in a single parent catholic family   somehow was a very difficult thing to do, when it was that anything to do with male was at best reduced to quiet whispers. I felt like an alien in my own family with it consisting of my mother and two sisters, they were all whispers, I was out of it. But there are other reasons why males tend to keep quiet when they have problems with their genitals, something doctors know about and at least in this country there is a programme of actually encouraging males to seek the doctor if they feel they have and embarrassing problems, the posters for checking for lumps and bumps on the testicles are common place in medical and sports establishments.

Of course some doctors say there is no risk of problems, or if they are honest they might quote statistics to reassure the parent, but say that this procedure is carried out every day, we know what we are doing, every safety precaution is put in place to avoid likelihood of any problem, and then get you to sign on the dotted line to say you have agreed to the procedure,under the title of general surgery thus absolving them of any comeback should one of these minority situations occur.

But I just have to ask, what is the history of male neonatal circumcision, where did it originate and was it perchance connected to religious belief, for it seems a very religious idea to go around messsing about with the genitalia, you know from times when sexual union was seen as the devils work and people punished accordingly. I wonder where the initial thought came from and wonder could it be say a pious religious figure, a priest of some sort thinking sex is dirty, the penis has a mind of it's own, let's punish it before it even gets started to remind it we are watching, we have your card marked, as if the penis was taken to be an evil entity.

Could it even be male neonatal circumcision as a religious practice started off as the first instances of paedophillia, a case of a person has license to fumble about because it has become a religious act.

But as it seems we as a society are fascinated one way or the other with genitalia beyond it's requirement for reproduction of the species, I can see why the religious nutters would seek to curtail any pleasure derived from self pleasure, as circumcision was in the past also performed as a cure for masturbation, the doctors having taken the place of the ministry, medical science was becoming the new god, as it is today with the majority of the population. Doctors became the new moral guardians and had the power and intellect to persuade the often uneducated parent.

It is this, and this only that I believe is the reason for neonatal circumcision, quasi religious practices and where religious scripture no longer works, blind them with medical science and reason.



But my situation, I am insensitive down there bar one spot, the frenulum, the bastards at least left me that, but it requires very gentle touch due to the skin tags and damage left by the flesh eating bug, which I am told is where the forceps were put for the procedure, the same place as indicated on many circumcision photographs.



< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/28/2010 5:56:03 AM >


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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 5:43:33 AM   
thishereboi


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I think you nailed that one

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 6:10:32 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
And yet you are still here? I gots to have a talk with this god for not doing his job.

I recommend that you take it up with the Divine. Paganism has been out of fashion for more than 3600 years. The dominant and leading religion for the past two thousand years has been Christianity. These days some people are moving into a post-Christian era.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

Christianity has never been the world's dominant and leading religion.  Its numbers are declining and at its highest numbers of believers never rose above 40% of the world's population.  Does supergenius mean you get to make stuff up and call it fact?

Paul wrote letters.  In his letters he addressed specific people about their specific questions and how people had extracted from that religious dogma that should apply to all believers is beyond my ability to comprehend.  If my mother wrote me a letter answering a question I had written to her, how would that apply to my brother?

You, have become a bore.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 7:21:52 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Peyronie’s disease affects one in 100.

What exactly does Peyronie's disease have to do with a lack of circumcision?

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 7:41:36 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

There is of course what the NOHARRM table of reported neonatal circumcision complications notes say;

Many of these complications go unreported by surgeons, either because they are not immediately recognized on the infant's tiny penis, or they are of little significance to surgeons who circumcise hundreds of male newborns annually. These usually remain unreported throughout a male's life due to his own ignorance of, or inhibitions to report, circumcision-related penile complications.


Circumcisions are performed, in US hospitals, in the new born nursery, under the watchful eye of both the Physician and a new born nursery nurse. I, and many others that work such units, happen to have worked hard to gain out licenses. I have gone up against more than one Dr when i felt he was wrong. Perhaps i have been lucky to have worked for Drs who were extremely knowledgeable in the procedure. I even worked during the time the Plastibell was being primarily used. Any complications were noted in my part of the chart. In the US, that is just as binding as the Physician notes. And something a physician cannot change.

quote:

Of course some doctors say there is no risk of problems, or if they are honest they might quote statistics to reassure the parent, but say that this procedure is carried out every day, we know what we are doing, every safety precaution is put in place to avoid likelihood of any problem, and then get you to sign on the dotted line to say you have agreed to the procedure,under the title of general surgery thus absolving them of any comeback should one of these minority situations occur.


Maybe this is the way it happens in your country. In the US, it hardly absolves anyone of the responsibility of medical mishaps.

Allow me to tell a little medical story. I hurt my upper back in a hospital i worked in. Instead of being out with workman's comp, they found a position for me in infection control. Doing paperwork, follow ups after surgeries, ect. One such complication was noted from a particular OR team... a repeated infection. Thankfully not the flesh eating kind, but a bug bad enough to cause sepsis in a few patients. The infection control nurse weilds alot of power. She tested everyone on that team by nasal swabs and hand swabs. Everyone complied, except the surgeon. She discovered he was to do a surgery that day. And there we were, outside his OR, waiting. He was informed that if he did not comply, his priveledge would be revoked to perform surgery at that hospital until he did. Another surgeon performed that surgery. Yep, you guessed it, he was the source. A week suspended and antibiotics and he tested clear.

quote:

Could it even be male neonatal circumcision as a religious practice started off as the first instances of paedophillia, a case of a person has license to fumble about because it has become a religious act.



Could be, could not be. Perhaps your experience has lead you to that twisted, dark place where you believe such. I canno speak for the past. I cannot speak for what may have lead people to do things. I can speak from a medical perspective now, and from a parents. I can speak from the perspective of being in a family with alot of males. 15 and counting, all circumcised, no complications.

quote:



But as it seems we as a society are fascinated one way or the other with genitalia beyond it's requirement for reproduction of the species, I can see why the religious nutters would seek to curtail any pleasure derived from self pleasure, as circumcision was in the past also performed as a cure for masturbation, the doctors having taken the place of the ministry, medical science was becoming the new god, as it is today with the majority of the population. Doctors became the new moral guardians and had the power and intellect to persuade the often uneducated parent.



I have not demeaned you, yet you attempt to demean me and others with the comment about "religious nutters". Men didnt care if their sons masturbated, women cared because they didnt wish to hear about such things about their male offspring. The religious bent was to keep this on the side of religion performing such ceremonies. Anyone without a medical degree and a hospital affiliation performing such a procedure on anyone in my family would have faced charges.


quote:



It is this, and this only that I believe is the reason for neonatal circumcision, quasi religious practices and where religious scripture no longer works, blind them with medical science and reason.


Blind with medical science and reason? Why are you so sure i, as a nurse, with a mother, who was also a nurse, would be so easily blinded?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 8:48:52 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
It is this, and this only that I believe is the reason for neonatal circumcision, quasi religious practices and where religious scripture no longer works, blind them with medical science and reason.


Science and reason are bad things?





New Study Shows Benefit of Male Circumcision

May Reduce Partner's Cervical Cancer Risk





Article date: 2002/06/04









Women are less likely to develop cancer of the cervix if their partners are circumcised men rather than men who are not circumcised, said a report in The New England Journal of Medicine (Vol. 346, No. 15: 1105-1112).
Experts believe a penis that has been circumcised is less likely to harbor human papilloma virus (HPV), a virus associated with almost all cases of cervical cancer.

So of course since women are lessor creatures, this doesn't count.  Who gives a rat's ass if women get cervical cancer.  The study showed that uncircumsided men were twice as likely to have HPV and their female partners were up to 5 times more likely to develop cervical cancer. 

But it's my choice to make sure I have never had and never will have a partner who is uncircumcised.  I kinda like my cervix.

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(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 298
RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 10:54:11 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
This is the education given to millions of parents every year. Informed consent is required for a circumcision. Anesthisia is given.

YOU are the parent, looking at your bundle of joy. Being told the potential complications for getting and not getting a circumcision. YOU are told the pain at day one lasts a brief few moments. YOU are told the pain later in life could last days or weeks.

Now, do you have children?



The text below applies not only to tazzygirl, but to all people who have practiced circumcision on their male progeny.

You are a well intentioned but overprotective parent who has let herself be beguiled into harming her own male progeny. You believed these lies and half truths and you did not notice the omissions of other truths.

It would have been better for your progeny if you had been born a deaf and dumb animal without reading and language skills, for then you would not have been vulnerable to such scams. Notice that all other mammal species are ethically far superior to you: the first female sperm whale and the first female rabbit to have their male progeny circumcised have yet to be discovered. In all the tens of millions of years of mammalian evolution only the single species with noticeable and adequate language ability and reasoning skills has been this ethically deficient.

Be afraid of dogs and you will get bitten by a dog. Be afraid of drowning and assuredly the boat you are on will sink and you will drown. That is how the Divine functions: it responds to our desires and fear is a desire.

Be afraid that harm will come to the genitals of your son and yes: harm will come to the genitals of your son. And guess what: you were the person responsible for this harm, you had his genitals mutilated, you had his foreskin amputated.

If you feel that your mate has such inferior qualities that they necessitate the circumcision of any male progeny that he might impregnate you with, then you ought to decide to be adulterous and to have yourself fertilized instead by a male with less inferior qualities.

You harmed your male progeny. You robbed him of possible destinies. You had no faith, neither in him, nor in your own parenting abilities, nor in the Divine. You committed treason against your population and its gene pool. You chose to rather have ugly great great grandchildren that die from inherited genetic diseases than run the risk that your male progeny might contract a sexually transmitted disease. You sinned, both in a secular, atheistic way as well as in a spiritual, religious way.

You can only redeem yourself by admitting your sin, by grieving for the wrong that you have done both to your son and to your population, by repenting and by determining that the practice of circumcision must end. Do not seek to justify your faults by denying them.

Accept disease and death.

From the New Testament Luke 8:5-8:
"A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up.
Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture.
Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants.
Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown." When he [Jesus, I guess] said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/28/2010 10:56:18 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 5/28/2010 11:13:37 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I havent read every word Rule has written but he comes across far less abrasive and out of it than some of the rest of you.

I suggest that you do read them. Were I you, I would pay particular attention to the parts about how the foreskin encourages STDs, and how that benefits society.
quote:

People who cant imagine what it means to have nerve receptors, basically the ability to feel, 10's of thousands of them cut off the wee boy body are people I am not going to want around me. Meanwhile subjecting his waking moments on the planet to surgery, to knives, to glaring lights, to exrtreme pain and violation of his precious body and even more tender genitals.

They key word here being 'imagine'. That said, if you think a delivery room in the average hospital uses soft candlelight and soothing waterfalls during delivery, you are quite mistaken.
quote:

I watch all you so-called logical normal people jump on Rule, call him crazy and everything, when to me each and everyone of you sound batzoid beyond help to me.

You really haven't read his posts, have you?
quote:

If Rule were crazy and you were not what does it say about you pointing your fingers at him and trying to humiliate and take him down? Fucking bullies. If he really is worse than you, nuttier than you why are you so eagerly and collectively so cruel?

Rule is Rule, this is an internet forum, and you are projecting.
quote:

I am ashamed of you and your kind. When you act like that I wish you would get on a space ship and go to some planet where they cut you up and wave guns around and act all bossy know it all pants all day long to each other.

You have obviously never been to New York City, lol.



Not projecting and I lived in New York for over a decade so...

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(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 300
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