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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:25:09 PM   
Sanity


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http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20100528/i/r3960858461.jpg?x=400&y=267&q=85&sig=ZETkCF9SA.L3C_hTen.hbg--

Aww,  look. As if to say,  "Nobody cares more" (for a whole ten minutes).

Then off on another vacation...

Its getting so bad that even some of  his staunchest supporters are beginning to lose patience with him:



< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/28/2010 2:28:13 PM >


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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:28:41 PM   
brainiacsub


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Panda, did you see the T Boone Pickens interview on CNN last night? He said the media is hyping this "top kill" operation and that it was always a long shot and BP knows it. He also said that they've had the best minds in the industry trying to solve this for 38 days now, and it wouldn't surprise him if we were here 38 days from now still talking about this. Nothing short of sheer luck is going to resolve this in the near future according to him. After watching the interview, I had no reason to doubt him.

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:29:46 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20100528/i/r3960858461.jpg?x=400&y=267&q=85&sig=ZETkCF9SA.L3C_hTen.hbg--

Aww,  look. As if to say,  "Nobody cares more" (for a whole ten minutes).

Then off on another vacation...

Its getting so bad that even some of  his staunchest supporters are beginning to lose patience with him:




Do you actually miss Bush?

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:29:58 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


How many vacations did Bush take immediately after 9/11, or in the aftermath of Katrina.

And if he did vacation during those times (I don't know either way), would he have been immune to criticism if Bubba Clinton had done something sorta similar once? Or would you have clamored for a witch hunt followed by a show trial.





Hey, I know you spell to at least a 6th grade level....how about you look it up, or don't they have that sort of info over at FOX? Wouldn't be room for hard questions.

Dunno that he was criticized by Fox entertainment for his huge vacationing history. Dunno if bubba was either.


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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:33:00 PM   
Sanity


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He wasn't all roses but he was far better than any of the current Democrats that I've seen yet.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Do you actually miss Bush?



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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:34:38 PM   
pahunkboy


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Wrong.   I see no difference.  They are are puppets for Goldman Sachs, JPM.  The game is rigged dude.  We are owned/controlled by the federal reserve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



He wasn't all roses but he was far better than any of the current Democrats that I've seen yet.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Do you actually miss Bush?



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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:40:49 PM   
Moonhead


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Bloody hell, I agree with medication boy on something. Are there two full moons this month or something?

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:48:15 PM   
pahunkboy


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that will be SIR, to you.    lol

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:48:53 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dubbelganger

TY for the update, Panda. It's my guess that the "mud" is a cement mixture formulated for salt water, slow-setting (so as to not harden in the injection pipe), and weighted with barium sulphate (barite), which increases the density of the mud.


Actually, it's a 3-stage process. The mud they're using now is some variation on standard drilling mud, bentonite-based weighted with barium. It's formulated to an optimum weight of either 14.2 or 14.8 pounds per gallon (I can't recall which), and there's an alternative formula that could take it as high as 16.2 or 16.8 ppg (again, can't recall exactly.) I think they'd be very careful about using a heavier mud, for fear of creating too much pressure in the pipe and blowing it out completely.

If they're able to get enough in to establish equilibrium, they'll pump in a layer of gel, thicker and heavier than the mud, on top of that to push the mud out of the pipe and keep it from contaminating the cement (which may have been the cause of this whole thing to begin with.)

Once the gel spacer is in  place, the cement goes in on top of that, and it will take between 1 and 3 hours to set up - depending on variable environmental conditions such as pressure and temperature. The set time will depend mostly on temperature. The water temperature is about 40 degrees, but the temperature of the oil flowing through the pipe is between 85 and 170 degrees, so there's no way to know exactly what the ambient temperature will be for the cement. The warmer it is, the faster it will set, the colder it is the more slowly it will set. I would imagine that will be a function of how long it's been since oil flowed through that section of the pipe. But at any rate, the cement will take no longer than 3 hours to fire off, and that's all the longer the mud and gel plug will have to hold. If they get that far, the well is dead, and the leak is over.


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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:52:28 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

that will be SIR, to you.    lol

No it won't. You're not a subject of her maj and bear no title. Sorry.

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:54:20 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

that will be SIR, to you.    lol

No it won't. You're not a subject of her maj and bear no title. Sorry.


LMAO!   touchet. 

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:54:37 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Panda, did you see the T Boone Pickens interview on CNN last night? He said the media is hyping this "top kill" operation and that it was always a long shot and BP knows it. He also said that they've had the best minds in the industry trying to solve this for 38 days now, and it wouldn't surprise him if we were here 38 days from now still talking about this. Nothing short of sheer luck is going to resolve this in the near future according to him. After watching the interview, I had no reason to doubt him.


Yes, I did see that. It was discouraging, but almost everything he said was in line with the information I'm getting from  the people i know who are working on this, and so far today none of them have challenged anything he said. Well, any of the technical information, anyway. They were all somewhat aghast at his apparent belief that because BP did not intentionally cause the accident, there was no criminal liability, but I haven't heard any of them disagree with his evaluation of the odds on the top kill. Even the people who helped design the technique. Which I found rather sobering.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 2:56:14 PM   
KYsissy


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Brainiacsub, LUV this alias BTW.  I don't know if people understand that there is no rulebook for this. This has never been attempted before and hopefully never needs to be again. This is right up there with the space program.  people operating huge complex machines and making their best guess as to what to do next.  I heard that this well was a much better producer than anticipated. Which would be have been good had it been capped as planned so they could move the rig.  It really sucks now for obvious reasons.

From what I understand, they need more mud, ALOT more mud.  they can stem the flow for a while but they need to throw so much crap at this pipe at one time and maintain the rate of jamming crap in this pipe long enough for the cement to set up. They run out of mud before they can begin pumping cement in. The mud is also a manufactured substance, how much of this can they locate and get to the site in the next few days? All this against the enormous pressure at 1 mile below the surface.

And what the hell do people think the government can do about this? Throw all available military personnel at the problem? They can't do squat either.  The only ones who can are the oil companies. The equipment is so specialized and I would bet most of it is custom made to spec.  And damn it, if the other oil companies ever want to have a prayer of drilling in the gulf they better send what they got to help out BP.



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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:21:05 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

Brainiacsub, LUV this alias BTW.  I don't know if people understand that there is no rulebook for this. This has never been attempted before and hopefully never needs to be again. This is right up there with the space program.  people operating huge complex machines and making their best guess as to what to do next.  I heard that this well was a much better producer than anticipated. Which would be have been good had it been capped as planned so they could move the rig.  It really sucks now for obvious reasons.

From what I understand, they need more mud, ALOT more mud.  they can stem the flow for a while but they need to throw so much crap at this pipe at one time and maintain the rate of jamming crap in this pipe long enough for the cement to set up. They run out of mud before they can begin pumping cement in. The mud is also a manufactured substance, how much of this can they locate and get to the site in the next few days? All this against the enormous pressure at 1 mile below the surface.


It's not a question of whether they have enough mud, it's a question of whether they can get enough of it into the hole fast enough to stop the flow before it gets flushed out by the outflowing oil.

I'm not sure how much they went out there with, but I do know it was several hundred thousand gallons. I'm just not sure how many hundreds of thousands. I know they're good for a few more days with what they have on hand, and if it hasn't worked by then it's not going to work anyway. I think they've got enough to see it through one way or the other, but it's a good question, and I'll try to find out for sure.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy
And what the hell do people think the government can do about this? Throw all available military personnel at the problem? They can't do squat either.  The only ones who can are the oil companies. The equipment is so specialized and I would bet most of it is custom made to spec.  And damn it, if the other oil companies ever want to have a prayer of drilling in the gulf they better send what they got to help out BP.


I don't think anyone could reasonably believe the feds could do a better job of stopping the leak, and I haven't seen anyone calling for that. I think what most people would like to see is a stronger federal government effort to mitigate the effect, such as facilitating  the building of sand berms to protect coastal areas and  organizing better cleanup procedures. Also, I'd like to see the Administration take a stronger approach to asserting their authority over BP. Once again, BP yanked them around yesterday by suspending the operation for 16 hours while telling the government that they were continuing to pump mud. If the government is really in charge of this operation, as Obama asserted, why isn't BP acting as though that's the case?

As for other oil companies chipping in, believe me - they are all on board, 110%. Much of the equipment that BP is using was bought, borrowed, or leased from other oil companies, and right now every oil company in the Gulf answers the phone on the first ring if the caller ID says "BP." BP has bought out the leases of several ships that were contracted to other companies for different projects, as well as literally boatloads of specialized equipment. The high pressure hose that they're using to pump the mud, for example - I've been told that BP has purchased the entire world supply of that hose, and I haven't heard of anyone refusing to cooperate. Every oil company in the Gulf of Mexico has pretty much put themselves at BP's disposal, as far as I know. This is one where they all know that if they don't hang together, they will surely hang separately.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:26:27 PM   
brainiacsub


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Panda, he didn't say that there was no criminal liability. He said that the media was jumping to conclusions, and that in all probability this was in fact just an accident and not criminal negligence. But he also said that the most disappointing thing going on was that the BP execs were being summoned to Capitol Hill to testify as to negligence and criminality, when they should in fact be focusing all their efforts on resolving this crisis. The time to try and understand what happened and why is after the immediate crisis is under control. He was very right about that. Congress and the media should leave these guys alone. There will be plenty of opportunity for investigations, accusations and recriminations later. Congress is stupid, and the media is being irresponsible.

T Boone also said that the only real solution is the relief well. Anything less than that is luck and wishful thinking, but I suspect you already know that.

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:30:06 PM   
KYsissy


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quote:

This is one where they all know that if they don't hang together, they will surely hang separately.


This I didn't know and I am glad to hear that.


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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:31:17 PM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

Brainiacsub, LUV this alias BTW.  [...]

Thanks! I made it up all by myself.

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:32:43 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

Brainiacsub, LUV this alias BTW.  [...]

Thanks! I made it up all by myself.


Obama helped her.

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:44:52 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

Panda, he didn't say that there was no criminal liability. He said that the media was jumping to conclusions, and that in all probability this was in fact just an accident and not criminal negligence. But he also said that the most disappointing thing going on was that the BP execs were being summoned to Capitol Hill to testify as to negligence and criminality, when they should in fact be focusing all their efforts on resolving this crisis. The time to try and understand what happened and why is after the immediate crisis is under control. He was very right about that. Congress and the media should leave these guys alone. There will be plenty of opportunity for investigations, accusations and recriminations later. Congress is stupid, and the media is being irresponsible.

T Boone also said that the only real solution is the relief well. Anything less than that is luck and wishful thinking, but I suspect you already know that.

Who's summoning them there? The teabaggers? Stupid twat.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Plug the damn hole!!! - 5/28/2010 3:55:12 PM   
brainiacsub


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I don't who summoned them, but I bet it's bipartisan. Apparently, there were three different occasions yesterday where BP execs were asked to go to the hill and answer to Congress. It shouldn't be that hard to find the details.

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