RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (Full Version)

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 9:23:35 AM)

The other side of that, LaT, is that submissive who gets into the "what have you done for me lately?" headspace. "Look at all I do for you!" he or she declares. "And you haven't done X, Y OR Z for me!!"

[8|]



LaTigresse -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 9:27:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

The other side of that, LaT, is that submissive who gets into the "what have you done for me lately?" headspace. "Look at all I do for you!" he or she declares. "And you haven't done X, Y OR Z for me!!"

[8|]


Don't you think that comes from that commercial image of what D/s or M/s is? Which leads to my theory that quite a large number of those that believe they are submissive or slaves, are actually bottoms and not submissive at all.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 9:37:10 AM)

Yes, absolutely. And honestly, submitting really has to suck sometimes, don't you think? I know I am NEVER tired of being the dom, but criminy, imagine obeying alllll the time? [8|]

I am one of those crazy people that believes that D/s relationships build and deepen, and that controls don't ALL start from day one. It gets added slowly, until a year into it, most everything is in place. (I use a :year: as an example) What starts out fun and games and easy is "suddenly" Damn, Hib thinks she's the boss of me! I don't get to play unless SHE wants to and I STILL have to fetch her iced tea!

That kind of realization can really suck for those who think that D/s relationships are egalitarian setups with whips. Sorry. Sometimes, it's not fun to be on the bottom. That's the reality of D/s. Sure, I want those in service to me to be GLAD that they are serving me. That does not mean that I have to give them a roses and sunshine life, OR make them "feel special". They ARE special, or I would not have chosen them.




youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 9:53:54 AM)

Ok, well first this doesnt come from a porno type idea. This is what I am seeing alot on people's profiles. Also, this draws from a real experience of mine.

This is about one of my formers. At first, everything was wonderful. We enjoyed each other's company in and out of the bedroom, we talked about almost anything that came to mind, etc. Then, over time, things changed. I did as much as I could for this woman. I would clean her house, do laundry, dished, swept/vaccumed floors, and always had dinner either waiting or just finishing up when she got home. Hell, there was a time she had a problem with her bank account, and I went out and bought her groceries, gas, and smokes.

Over time, it got to the point where I could barely get her to speak to me when we were sitting in the same room. Im not talking one word answers, Im talking about one syllable answers. All I could think was "really? I do all this shit for you, and I cant get some basic attention, or even semi-intellligent conversation"? It made me feel completely worthless.

Thats where this question comes from



laurell3 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 9:56:16 AM)

That sounds like a relationship and not a d/s issue to me. Sometimes when it's over, it's just over and there's nothing you can do to bring the interest back no matter how much you feel like you should have it or care about that person. Is that what happened?



youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 9:59:28 AM)

Im not really sure, to be honest. All I know is I got my ass out of there



laurell3 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 10:06:57 AM)

Well try not to carry that forward with you.

I think rather than actually saying "what are you doing to do for me?" to D types you have to keep that in your head that yes, you have the right to have your needs met in a relationship as anyone does and try to find someone that fits that and communicate open and respectfully early on. I think it's also imperative that you find someone that actually listens, even if they call the shots they still give you the opportunity (at some appropriate point) to be heard. I honestly think it that isn't present regardless of your level of submission or kink, it's not likely to succeed.



youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 10:12:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Well try not to carry that forward with you.

I think rather than actually saying "what are you doing to do for me?" to D types you have to keep that in your head that yes, you have the right to have your needs met in a relationship as anyone does and try to find someone that fits that and communicate open and respectfully early on. I think it's also imperative that you find someone that actually listens, even if they call the shots they still give you the opportunity (at some appropriate point) to be heard. I honestly think it that isn't present regardless of your level of submission or kink, it's not likely to succeed.

I agree, 100%. I feel that a relationship, wether its vanilla, d/s, or somewhere in between, is just that, a relationship. If my needs are not being met, I have no motivation to give you what you want, and Im willing to bet Im not the only s type here that feels that way.



PeonForHer -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:04:18 AM)

Geoff,

Do you think you had trouble being assertive with this woman?  I don't mean aggressive - and I don't mean 'switching off your submissive side' with her, either (even if that were possible for you - and I suspect it isn't for many subs).  I mean asking her, very directly, what the problem is, and being firm enough to have conversations that are based on mutual and equal respect.



LaTigresse -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:06:20 AM)

Geoff, I am 48 which means I have experienced some shitty stuff in relationships. Of course those things left their mark on me but it is MY CHOICE as to what kind of mark, and how I carry those marks. For me it isn't a case of projecting the cause forward, fearing or expecting the next person will do the same things, not at all. For me, those marks are growth. I know better now what I want for myself, out of a relationship, and in another person that I might have a relationship with.

It's important to me to look at why I chose that person, what lessons I needed to learn from that relationship, and if I have or if I am bound to repeat the same shit. I REFUSE to cast blame on the other person. Absolutely refuse. I was equal party to the relationship and I allowed, or maybe even created, some of the shit. For every negative I can find at least two positives. That is really pretty awesome when I think about it. That means that the people in my life now, and future, reap the rewards of past shit right along with me.

I really do encourage self introspection. I am not saying blame because that will lead to more negativity both projected outward to others and inward to yourself. And you will not learn from it. Just a more analytical observation. As though it was a situation of someone you, only slightly knew. Someone you had no real emotional ties to.

And LadyHib, I agree with you totally. I think it must suck at times to be a submissive or owned slave. But, that is what they signed up for. If they don't like it, and it isn't going to change, they should not only rethink what they want and agreed to, or move on.



laurell3 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:13:02 AM)

I'm not sure I agree it sucks at all as long as you are careful that you are with a partner that fits you and understands you.

I know, it's easy for me to say that being female and having the numbers in my favor right? Wrong. There is a lack of quality Dom(mes) on both sides that are actually sane, healthy, caring individuals that aren't trying to be a fantasy. I think too often people jump into situations thinking they will get better on all relationships fronts, vanilla and d/s. It doesn't get better. Be careful who you chose to put the effort in for and that they are a good match for you.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:31:21 AM)

You're right about the episodes of the past, LaT. I got postives out of all my relationships, especially the psychoslave. Yeah, he did lots of damage, but I was there too.

Geoff, we don't always make the best relationship choices. It usually takes a bit for the human mask to come off and the monster to explode out. Remember the past, but try not to see everyone in that same light.



LaTigresse -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:38:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I'm not sure I agree it sucks at all as long as you are careful that you are with a partner that fits you and understands you.

I know, it's easy for me to say that being female and having the numbers in my favor right? Wrong. There is a lack of quality Dom(mes) on both sides that are actually sane, healthy, caring individuals that aren't trying to be a fantasy. I think too often people jump into situations thinking they will get better on all relationships fronts, vanilla and d/s. It doesn't get better. Be careful who you chose to put the effort in for and that they are a good match for you.


Laurell, if you can scrub a toilet, help me shovel a lane when it is -15 and the wind is howling, or some other nasty task I cannot think of right now....... and not think it sucks........get your ass to the farm!!![;)]



laurell3 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:40:13 AM)

haha I will come to visit....if the anteater comes too! [;)]

and yes, to clarify there are certainly things everyone must do that suck in life....but does that equate to submitting sucking? I don't think so, in the right relationship, doing those tasks with you/for you would be fulfilling because it helps you and if I'm in that relationship I cherish you and want to help you, because you do the same for me. Hell LaT I'm a chick, I'm rarely strictly service oriented in that regard, but I've done some nasty things that weren't paticularly pleasant other people would gladly shovel snow to avoid and enjoyed it because it turned the guy on.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:42:27 AM)

Oh hell, I'll come if the anteater is involved! And I even muck out stalls!



youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:49:59 AM)

I know I havent made the best choices as far as relationships go, I admit that. I've also been wrong about people too. For example, the shit that happened between MoGa and I. Neither of us were in a good place when that relationship started, and it ended very badly. However, here we are over a year later, we're both better people, and even better friends than we were before. Are we going to get back together? Probably not. Doesnt mean I love her any less though.

Now, with the one I spoke about, I dont really know what went wrong, other than it wasnt a good fit. I did tell her, in a calm, rational manner, that I didnt like the lack of communication. Just didnt work though.

Also, Im smart enough to know that not all dommes are like her either. Like my friend Faye says, there is a lid for every pot [:)]



Lockit -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:50:00 AM)

What is fair about a man wanting to know what I will give him within a relationship, when it is coming from a wound or an expectation that I will deny him?

I offer all of me, my love, affection, smarts, humor, touch, denial of touch for kinky reasons, my kink, my sex, my home, my money, my balance and consistency... my all. I do not offer games, mind trips of the unhealthy kind, cruelty, drama and on and on... on a negative bent.

I offer my healed self and I expect his healed self. Minor issues we can deal with, but if a wound is that open and he is waiting for an ax to swing at his head, we won't go far.



Jeffff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 11:58:44 AM)

Any partner who is incapable of stateing what they need and what they want is doomed.

You learn this as time goes on. Men in nilla relationships do it all the time. "It's easier to give her what she wants so she will stfu". Later when they finally get fed up she is suprised, and we wonder why.

AS I see it, the point is not so much WHAT I will give, but will it be what she needs.



LaTigresse -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 12:05:58 PM)

Yes indeed. I have walked away from several wonderful women because I knew I was not going to provide what they need. 



leadership527 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 12:06:45 PM)

Our M/s relationship is not romanticized or eroticized. I own Carol... period... In my own little corner of reality, there is only one possible price tag for an entire human being... another human being. I give Carol my self. I do the best I am able every single day to make her life a wonderfully happy and fulfilling place which meets all her needs. Listing individual things I do would take more characters than you want to read.



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