RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one

RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (Full Version)

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Lockit -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 6:02:14 PM)
Geoff, I don't have enough invested or involved with you to carry a grudge or attitude about you. I speak my mind and when I have had words with you it was typically you conducting yourself in a manner far different from how you are expressing yourself now. I will not carry over what has been said in the past as if I had some deep seated emotion that would prompt me to act out against you. I was answering your current question as I would anyone asking it. I wasn't taking your question as a personal one, but an in general one. As for your emailing me and my deleting it unread, I have absolutely no memory of that and although my memory has failed me before, that isn't something I typically do. I think I have done that maybe two times and they were with trolls. I keep email so that I can remember by the email exactly what was said. I am far too interested in what someone might have to say to delete unread or not read it in one way or another, whether the sender knows I've read it or not. That just doesn't sound like something I would do. If I did delete it, you can be sure I did read it. lol

youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 7:35:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I like to think of myself as the closer. I am the Mariano Rivera of BDSM! Jefff hof Fuck the Yankees Fuck the Sox too Indians FTW!!! [:D]

youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 7:41:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Geoff, I don't have enough invested or involved with you to carry a grudge or attitude about you. I speak my mind and when I have had words with you it was typically you conducting yourself in a manner far different from how you are expressing yourself now. I will not carry over what has been said in the past as if I had some deep seated emotion that would prompt me to act out against you. I was answering your current question as I would anyone asking it. I wasn't taking your question as a personal one, but an in general one. As for your emailing me and my deleting it unread, I have absolutely no memory of that and although my memory has failed me before, that isn't something I typically do. I think I have done that maybe two times and they were with trolls. I keep email so that I can remember by the email exactly what was said. I am far too interested in what someone might have to say to delete unread or not read it in one way or another, whether the sender knows I've read it or not. That just doesn't sound like something I would do. If I did delete it, you can be sure I did read it. lol well, like I said I've been working on myself lately. I cant keep getting pissed off all the time, Im borderline diabetic and my doctor is worried about my blood pressure and heart due to family history. Yes, even the great Geoff is affected by aging [:D] idk, I just got the feeling you didnt like me for whatever reason. So, maybe your just crabby [:D]

Lockit -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 7:50:12 PM)
Yes, I am typically crabby. You pegged me. Kudos.

cloudboy -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 8:15:14 PM)
quote: But isn't that kind of obvious? No, many femdom profiles come off as if only her needs are important. So, its a practical question for men to wonder what they might get out of such an arrangement. A common answer to that question is often, "a true malesub will feel inner satisfaction that he makes her happy." (Her happiness is his happiness.) The inference is that if he even thinks about his own needs (his happiness), then "he's not being submissive." If he thinks about his BDSM needs, he risks being tagged a "do-me sub," a tag rarely if ever applied to femsubs. Hence there is an idea that the guy just can't think about his needs, and that it would be "unnatural" for the femdom to even consider meeting them -- because that's not in her job description. I'm not saying these are the issues underlying the OP's question, but a femdom who values and treats her partner well by doing things for him jettisons the archetype above out the window. So, to me, his question is a search to confirm something important about Femdoms, namely that they are also real people in real relationships. And no, that is not exactly obvious to anyone breaking into BDSM. Femdoms don't look to femsubs the same way they look to malesubs. Femdoms seeking females usually make their profiles much more personable and approachable, more normal, if you will. The spectrum in narrower, but on the malesub side, you have some pretty extreme stuff out there -- and its not that easy to process what that either means or entails when the rubber would hit the road.

laurell3 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 8:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The inference is that if he even thinks about his own needs (his happiness), then "he's not being submissive." If he thinks about his BDSM needs, he risks being tagged a "do-me sub," a tag rarely if ever applied to femsubs. True cloudboy, but we are called "bedroom submissives", same principle and very overused.

cloudboy -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 8:27:16 PM)
quote: True cloudboy, but we are called "bedroom submissives", same principle and very overused. Wow, I didn't know that. I can't imagine that would be so objectionable to most men, because for them that would probably be most important. I also think this term implies less offense from the man in question, whereas the do-me male conjures the image of an offended woman in my mind.

laurell3 -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 8:31:57 PM)
I think your presumption about objections is mistaken, the phrase very much means a woman is only sexually submissive and not enough when used in the majority of contexts I have seen it. I know you try to separate things by gender, but I have to tell you that many of the things you talk about are similar on this side of the gene pool. There are just as many profiles from men that go on about what women should be and not be without any consideration for what will be given to them. I don't see this as a product of any measure of relationships, I see it as a product of the fantasy based illusion surrounding d/s. Often times when you talk to those people you find that's just what they thought their profile should be.

hardbodysub -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/27/2010 10:14:52 PM)
quote: DSM is not a relationship band-aid, short cut or 'quick fix Right. That's what making a baby is for. [8D]

VaguelyCurious -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 1:55:29 AM)
Cloudboy: I've cut this down solely so the mods don't get cross. quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy No, many femdom profiles come off as if only her needs are important. So, its a practical question for men to wonder what they might get out of such an arrangement. From what I've seen, the profiles of the femdoms on the board are atypical in this regard-he's not asking a representative sample of the other side. quote: I'm not saying these are the issues underlying the OP's question, but a femdom who values and treats her partner well by doing things for him jettisons the archetype above out the window. So, to me, his question is a search to confirm something important about Femdoms, namely that they are also real people in real relationships. And no, that is not exactly obvious to anyone breaking into BDSM. But he's not someone 'breaking into BDSM'; I recognise his avatar, he's been posting on these boards a while, and he's had an account since 2007. I don't understand how anyone reading these boards could fail to see the affection that the women here who have relationships with malesubs have for those maleubs. Akasha, LNT, Lady Pact (first three that jumped into my head)...you can see the affection for their partners clearly in their writing. The achetype is a porn thing. He's not talking to a bunch of porn stars, he's talking to a bunch of women who have/have had/are looking for relationships. If a board regular can't tell the difference between the two then I don't have much sympathy. quote: The spectrum in narrower, but on the malesub side, you have some pretty extreme stuff out there -- and its not that easy to process what that either means or entails when the rubber would hit the road. So because other people's profiles are extreme we have Geoff asking us how we show care for our partners and calling it a 'hard question' (thus implying that we don't show care for our partners, or that we'd be hard-pressed to find examples) and I'm not supposed to be dismissive of this? The question was combative. The implication was that the femdoms on this board find it 'hard' (his word) to form normal give-and-take relationships, that we don't care for our partners, that the porn stereotype is true and by definition we are cold and hard and selfish. You'll forgive me for not being too keen on it.

youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 4:48:11 AM)
No, actually its because I could not get an intelligent answer on the other side. I got one that said "Oh, well I would fuck him all the time". Really? Thats all you've got? Another one said "I want someone who finds serving to be its own reward". Yeah, good luck chasing that dragon. Its like it's never crossed these girls' (and I do mean 'girls') minds that their sub may actually have needs outside of the bedroom. And speaking of being dismissive, you have over 1800 posts on this board, yet you've been here less than 6 months. Lacking a life, perhaps?

LadyAngelika -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 5:21:06 AM)
quote: Any partner who is incapable of stateing what they need and what they want is doomed. The anteater is bang on. - LA

VaguelyCurious -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 7:09:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff No, actually its because I could not get an intelligent answer on the other side. I got one that said "Oh, well I would fuck him all the time". Really? Thats all you've got? Another one said "I want someone who finds serving to be its own reward". Yeah, good luck chasing that dragon. Its like it's never crossed these girls' (and I do mean 'girls') minds that their sub may actually have needs outside of the bedroom. Look. You are saying that all the women you talk to lack this particular thing. You therefore conclude that all women lack this particular thing-that we find it hard to give back in a relationship, that we're cold or shallow or whatever. I'm saying that you need to judge who you talk to better. If all the women you talk to lack give-and-take you need to talk to better women-that's your problem, not the problem of women in general. You said in your OP that the question you posed was a hard one. I say that if the women you know have given you that impression then you have crap taste in women. quote: And speaking of being dismissive, you have over 1800 posts on this board, yet you've been here less than 6 months. Lacking a life, perhaps? I'm an insomniac. As a result my days tend to have a few more hours in them than the average. I spend some of that extra time at a computer, yes. I'm good with that. It has nothing to do with the question you asked, though...

cloudboy -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 8:28:28 AM)
quote: The question was combative. The implication was that the femdoms on this board find it 'hard' (his word) to form normal give-and-take relationships, that we don't care for our partners, that the porn stereotype is true and by definition we are cold and hard and selfish. You'll forgive me for not being too keen on it. But, its not an unfair question to ask, and there are rational reasons for asking it. In my last post, I extrapolated from the question beyond the OP and the posters on this board in particular -- to male subs and what they see "out there" as femdoms. It looked to me like he got some useful responses. I can also see your point, that with a little realistic exploration, one could better sense what a working M-F BDSM relationship looks like. But I myself still wonder what goes on with the women who have extreme, self-centered profiles up -- I do wonder what they are all about and how in fact they do get along with men. If I flipped the genders, when I see extreme self centered maledom profiles (not that numerous) I just automatically think those guys are never going to get a date, much less crank a relationship up.

AAkasha -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 9:04:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff And speaking of being dismissive, you have over 1800 posts on this board, yet you've been here less than 6 months. Lacking a life, perhaps? Seriously, you expect to gain empathy with this kind of attitude? Underneath the surface in nearly all your posts, even when they are level, there's so much hostility and anger toward dominant women that it oozes through the surface. Careful what you project, it affects what you attract. As for what you are experiencing "on the other side," -- honestly, you must recognize that the women that give you advice here are mostly relationship-minded, functional women. On "the other side" you are getting the quality back based on the women you reach out to (or attract) which could be anything from scammers using a slow approach to ladies who are trying to say what they think sub men want to hear to men who are just bored and inventing profiles and saying what they think guys want to hear. Until you actually meet these women and start dating them, it's impossible to know how legitimate their relationship expectations and standards are. Akasha

VaguelyCurious -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 9:44:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy But, its not an unfair question to ask, and there are rational reasons for asking it. In my last post, I extrapolated from the question beyond the OP and the posters on this board in particular -- to male subs and what they see "out there" as femdoms. I think it would be a fair question to ask a prospective partner. It's less 'fair' to ask the question to a group of Dommes as a whole in a loaded way (loaded by virtue of titling it a 'hard question'-sorry to keep going on about it but context is everything and in this case the word choice made the context unpleasant). I know you've extrapolated the question, but the OP didn't; he tarred all femdoms with the same brush. When you extrapolate the question it becomes imporssible to answer-we can't tell you what those women think because they don't post here, and we are no more psychic than you...:P (Dommely secret-we can't actually read other Domme's minds! Don't tell anyone [:D]) quote: But I myself still wonder what goes on with the women who have extreme, self-centered profiles up -- I do wonder what they are all about and how in fact they do get along with men. If I flipped the genders, when I see extreme self centered maledom profiles (not that numerous) I just automatically think those guys are never going to get a date, much less crank a relationship up. I think to some extent it's a market forces thing; either women know there are more of you than them, and they know that they can ask for whatever they want and still get attention, or they watch porn and say what they think you want to hear (but they might actually be sweet little bunnies underneath). I can see how both those options could happen; my profile is pretty hostile, I have nothing ticked in the 'actively seeking' section and I still get constant CMails begging for one-dimensional degradation; that gives the impression that a) so many people what what I'm not even offering that were I to offer it I could set any parameters I wanted (including denying my partner any care), and b) what people want is to be degraded and used without any regard to their care. Obviously that impression is distorted, and I don't know how strong any relationship formed under that impression would be, but I get why it happens.

youngsubgeoff -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 10:23:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious quote: ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff No, actually its because I could not get an intelligent answer on the other side. I got one that said "Oh, well I would fuck him all the time". Really? Thats all you've got? Another one said "I want someone who finds serving to be its own reward". Yeah, good luck chasing that dragon. Its like it's never crossed these girls' (and I do mean 'girls') minds that their sub may actually have needs outside of the bedroom. Look. You are saying that all the women you talk to lack this particular thing. You therefore conclude that all women lack this particular thing-that we find it hard to give back in a relationship, that we're cold or shallow or whatever. I'm saying that you need to judge who you talk to better. If all the women you talk to lack give-and-take you need to talk to better women-that's your problem, not the problem of women in general. You said in your OP that the question you posed was a hard one. I say that if the women you know have given you that impression then you have crap taste in women. quote: And speaking of being dismissive, you have over 1800 posts on this board, yet you've been here less than 6 months. Lacking a life, perhaps? I'm an insomniac. As a result my days tend to have a few more hours in them than the average. I spend some of that extra time at a computer, yes. I'm good with that. It has nothing to do with the question you asked, though... see, now your twisting what I said. I didnt say "all dommes are like this". Far from it. I asked this question on here because I knew I would get a set of sensible, intelligent answers. idk what I did to piss you off, but you're reading wayyy too far into it. @AAkasha, Im only hostile with people that are hostile with me. Im not angry at dominant women in general (Im sure as hell not that kevin prick).

cloudboy -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 10:24:58 AM)
quote: it's a market forces thing; I would agree with that.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 11:02:01 AM)
Regarding "Market Forces", and profiles... I have access to the Big Box for the first time in months, pretty much, and I have been reading the profiles and journals that pop up on my homepage. Who is all happyhappy? The poor schmoes who are hooked up with pro dominants that are keeping them locked up, seeing them on very limited terms, making outlandish demands in response to their unreasonable hopes. It makes me sad, it makes my head explode, but truly? I think all the parties are happy there, and will be for a bit. Those extreme ladies are really raking in lots of willing, fantasy-driven meat. What are those women "doiing" for the men? I am not sure. I honestly think it's all happening in their minds, so maybe a very extended and expensive masturbation fantasy. Are the posters here like that? I am going to venture a guess and say "no". None of us is perfect, but I really don't think we are exploiters, money grubbers, man haters, or any of that.

cloudboy -> RE: A hard question perhaps, but a fair one (5/28/2010 11:58:41 AM)
quote: There are just as many profiles from men that go on about what women should be and not be without any consideration for what will be given to them. I don't see this as a product of any measure of relationships, I see it as a product of the fantasy based illusion surrounding d/s. Often times when you talk to those people you find that's just what they thought their profile should be. I don't see the two groups as similar, but after reading your post I decided to randomly read through 15 random male dom profiles. Out of 15, there was not one "its all about me" maledom in the group. So, I think your claim that, "There are just as many profiles from men that go on about what women should be and not be without any consideration for what will be given to them" is false. Maledom profiles, as a rule, don't read anything like femdom ones. This may say more about market forces than gender differences. So, I still don't think his question was that off base or insulting.

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