RE: Slavery is bullshit (Full Version)

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SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:27:05 PM)

quote:

Some people need to suffer for the pleasure of their Master. It is a need... it is how they show their attachment to their Master... as property (some would say). For some people, (some of those that refer to themselves as slave)... suffering brings a sense of peace, contentment and serenity most of the time.


You know what - suffering is suffering and it has nothing to do with peace and serenity, let alone contentment.
You can't suffer, I mean really SUFFER and be at peace, serene and content at the same time. Logical impossibility.

When it comes to "need" to suffer, you are maybe right - but even if there is such a need, it's not very healthy need. Some people need to smoke or to do heroin, yet it is slowly killing them. Maybe there is a way to remove such need.




SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:29:51 PM)

quote:

Subs and new slaves play around with this need all of the time as their 'master' or 'dom' teaches them to 'suffer for him' (Slavery 101). But when a slave truly finds her real Master, the need can grow to be more deeply rooted in the life of the slave than just some temporary suffering through some type of 'play' or 'punishment' activity.
~sgs


You really think that it is wise to deliberately increase otherwise weak need to suffer and to make it more intensive?
I would rather try to eliminate such tendencies, which would be quite easy when they are still weak.




KnightofMists -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:31:37 PM)


quote:

Maybe this makes you happy, but this is also very unhealthy for your mind and body.


No... those things are not root causes that will bring about an unhealthy state for the mind and body or the allowance of those things will bring her a healthy existence.

She needs three basic things for her mental and emotional well-being.

1 - Competence in what one does. This is more than talking about self-esteem. It is a belief and opinion that what one engages in they do well. The more they believe themselves competent in what they do the higher their self-esteem grows. She may dislike and even hate the job that causes her anxiety and stress. But she hates even more when she allows her anxiety and stress to decide her life. She did that once and it almost killed her. Instead she is learning to conquer her anxiety and learning to manage stress in constructive ways. The more competent she believes herself to be in this area the stronger and healthier she has become and the last five years of her life she has excelled because of what I guide her towards. Not to say she wasn't doing well before.. she is just doing better because she has support and help.

2 - Connectedness or Relatedness to those significant in her life. Maslow called in the need to belong. It's not so much to belong but to know one has a place in this world that is uniquely theres. No one else has that spot it's hers and hers alone. In our relationship she has found that spot and this has built incredible security for her to challenge her limitations and push herself to greater heights that continue to improve her well-being. Possessions distract her from what she needs to be connected to for her the sake of her well-being.

3 Autonomy. This is NOT about having independence. In fact, independence in of itself can be to a detriment of number two in some situations. This is more about believing and haveing the volation that the way one is living their life is consistent with who they are as a person they self-identify as. It is without question that the more Kyra has shed herself of her independence and authority within her relationship with me the stronger her health as become. Kyra self-identifies as a person that is driven to hand all this authority to a person where she can be as transparent as one could ever hope to achieve. Her self-identification is critical and having the ability and voliation to actualize this identification is neccessary to her well-being. To inhibit herself from being her authentic self is going to and has had serious negative impacts to her well-being.

she is happy becuase she is in the best mental state of her entire adult life and maybe even her entire life.




Frankseas -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:40:25 PM)

Wow??? this is still going on? Come one people its the weekend... let it go and have fun!?[;)] Say Soc....its not Logical to be Logical all the time.

And it is even more logical to be ill-logical instead let not the power of one try to rule others but instead let others rule the one for a change okay? Got it? Good!

Suffering and peace and enjoyment do go together or have you never been with a pain freak before? Try it some time and you will understand that. But be careful as they are a lot of work. As much pain as you can give them they just want more and more!![;)]




WyldHrt -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:46:05 PM)

quote:

I am not allowed to knit in public (how insensitive of him!!!)

Hard limit! [8D]
*sends kyra a book on crocheting* [;)]




SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:46:55 PM)

quote:

1 - Competence in what one does. This is more than talking about self-esteem. It is a belief and opinion that what one engages in they do well. The more they believe themselves competent in what they do the higher their self-esteem grows. She may dislike and even hate the job that causes her anxiety and stress. But she hates even more when she allows her anxiety and stress to decide her life. She did that once and it almost killed her. Instead she is learning to conquer her anxiety and learning to manage stress in constructive ways. The more competent she believes herself to be in this area the stronger and healthier she has become and the last five years of her life she has excelled because of what I guide her towards. Not to say she wasn't doing well before.. she is just doing better because she has support and help.


Why wouldn't she be EVEN MORE COMPETENT in another job which she would LOVE and which wouldn't cause such extreme stress and anxiety to her?
Ask any doctor, he'll tell you - stress is not healthy.

quote:

2 - Connectedness or Relatedness to those significant in her life. Maslow called in the need to belong. It's not so much to belong but to know one has a place in this world that is uniquely theres. No one else has that spot it's hers and hers alone. In our relationship she has found that spot and this has built incredible security for her to challenge her limitations and push herself to greater heights that continue to improve her well-being. Possessions distract her from what she needs to be connected to for her the sake of her well-being.


Why would possessions distract her? Most the people have some possessions, yet I don't see that they are distracted or that they aren't connected with their loved ones.
You have possessions yet you also belong to your two women. How your possessions don't prevent you from belonging to them?

quote:

3 Autonomy. This is NOT about having independence. In fact, independence in of itself can be to a detriment of number two in some situations. This is more about believing and haveing the volation that the way one is living their life is consistent with who they are as a person they self-identify as. It is without question that the more Kyra has shed herself of her independence and authority within her relationship with me the stronger her health as become. Kyra self-identifies as a person that is driven to hand all this authority to a person where she can be as transparent as one could ever hope to achieve. Her self-identification is critical and having the ability and voliation to actualize this identification is neccessary to her well-being. To inhibit herself from being her authentic self is going to and has had serious negative impacts to her well-being.


What do you think when she began identifying herself as a person who is driven to hand all her authority?

quote:

she is happy becuase she is in the best mental state of her entire adult life and maybe even her entire life.


I believe you this, but don't you think that in some different circumstances her well-being wouldn't be EVEN BETTER than it is now?

Maybe she would be even happier if she wasn't so stressed on her job.




leadership527 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:47:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
"Ownership" is a cultural construct and while it might be fun to say you own something, even if nobody actually recognizes your right of ownership, that doesn't make it objective fact. It just makes it the term that you prefer to apply to a relationship that is objectively regarded as "marriage."
*sighs* I just love people who are possessed of the TRUTH(tm). Your statement is both factually incorrect and also logically inconsistent with observable norms. But hey, thank you for educating me on reality. It's really quite handy. My two teenage sons passed into their 20's and so they no longer still know everything. Now I know where to turn in a pinch.




nancygirl34652 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:48:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

You know what - suffering is suffering and it has nothing to do with peace and serenity, let alone contentment.
You can't suffer, I mean really SUFFER and be at peace, serene and content at the same time. Logical impossibility.

When it comes to "need" to suffer, you are maybe right - but even if there is such a need, it's not very healthy need. Some people need to smoke or to do heroin, yet it is slowly killing them. Maybe there is a way to remove such need.



just as some people need to pontificate and pontificate on forum boards...i know it won't kill us to read what You keep saying over and over and over but no body here is going to change their minds about themselves based on a stranger's pontificating....."different strokes for different folks, and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby"

Happy Memorial Day Weekend To All!




MsLadySue -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 9:59:19 PM)

As long as SocratesNot has access to a computer this will go on forever along with the many other threads he's started lately.




xssve -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:14:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

Someone who will roll over on their back like some abused and terrified puppy doesn't have much to surrender


There are many ways to roll on one's back, including like a strong and wise lioness.  The fact that you only see it in this limited way is your perception, not the full reality.

I get that you need someone who is obviously and aggressively out there, stereotypically strong, bordering on difficult, the untameable filly.  You see the value in that and that's what gets you going.

But you really need to stop saying that if it's NOT all that, then it's somehow weak, worthless and not healthy.


Where do you find them women that roll over like that anyway? I don't think I've ever seen that before, they're all pretty contrary as far as I can tell.





KnightofMists -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:14:44 PM)

quote:

Ask any doctor, he'll tell you - stress is not healthy.


actually that is not accurate.. it's what you do with stress that makes it unhealthy or not. Considering that she is more healthy now that she was. I would say that proof is in.

quote:

2 - Connectedness or Relatedness to those significant in her life. Maslow called in the need to belong. It's not so much to belong but to know one has a place in this world that is uniquely theres. No one else has that spot it's hers and hers alone. In our relationship she has found that spot and this has built incredible security for her to challenge her limitations and push herself to greater heights that continue to improve her well-being. Possessions distract her from what she needs to be connected to for her the sake of her well-being.


quote:


Why would possessions distract her? Most the people have some possessions, yet I don't see that they are distracted or that they aren't connected with their loved ones.
You have possessions yet you also belong to your two women. How your possessions don't prevent you from belonging to them?


First she is not most people. so treating her life those that she is not like would be be harmful to her well-being. Secondly, I don't belong to my two girls and lastly.. I am like most people... having possession don't distract me from being me.


quote:


What do you think when she began identifying herself as a person who is driven to hand all her authority?


mmmm maybe you mean...'when do I think she began to identify herself as a person to hand her authority'.

It was a while after we began our friendship. She realized after a few months that she was making choices that would gain my approval even though she had not obligation or expecation to do so. She had to consider why she rather unconsciously tend to do these things. Considering she was dong this before we actually met in person or even became emotional intimate with one another it was rather confusing. Kyra is someone that likes to understand the why of things and this is something she was driven to have an answer to. Of course she considered it's because this guy is hot!!! lol But she was engaged years before and she didn't act this way to him even though apparently she thought he was hot at the time. Maybe it was the type of person I am. In part that had some truth to it. But it wasn't so much that I cause the effect... it was more like what I am attracted what she is and vice vrs.


quote:


I believe you this, but don't you think that in some different circumstances her well-being wouldn't be EVEN BETTER than it is now?

Maybe she would be even happier if she wasn't so stressed on her job.



happy for how long? I know this about her. If she steps backwards it is a very dangerous path for her. She can't surrender to aniexty or hide from stress. That has been her past habits and it just about killed her. Stepping away was not the answer. To prove my point. She was extremely stress awhile back about work and was not managing it well that all. to the point that I had to open some doors and allow her to make a choice. It gave her a bit of direction and allowed her to feel that she was going to manage the situation and escape the stress. In essense, I guide her towards talking to the owner. I was betting that after she talked to him that much of the stress and aniexty was going get back to those manageble levels. If it didn't I would of had her quit. Well... she actually came back feeling very good. She took hold of the aniexty and stress and won the battle. She was bottling up so much and in fact she often creates her own aniexties and stress. It's not the job... it's her mental process that put her there. I can have her quit.. but then she will go into the same cycle the next time and once I allow the cycle to start it gets worse and worse each time. This incident happen a month or two ago.. and her level of managing aniexty and stress is at a higher level today that it was months before. She has reached a new level of strength and competence in who she is.




kyraofMists -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:15:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Could you tell us about some of the things KoM has replaced the things you've listed that he's taken away? You mentioned leanring to ski-he made you learn to do something you now love. Any other examples you want to share?


That might actually take awhile and I don't really view anything that I wrote before as being 'taken away' though I know that some would see it that way.

I now have a family of six that I adore and would do anything for. While not their mom, I cry in joy when we go to recitals or school plays. I now have two mother-in-laws and a father-in-law. Despite the fact, that his mother can drive us all batty, we love her dearly. I have learned that having an intellectual conversation within a small group feeds me more than ‘alone time’. I have learned to take advantage of the brief periods of alone time that I do get. I have learned what donairs, perogies and poutines are; some I liked and some I don’t really care for.

When I first met him, I was an insomniac. Sleeping more than a few hours at a time was quite rare for me even with prescribed sleep medication. He required that I get to a point that I did not need medication and that I actually slept most of the night. In less than six months, I no longer needed the medication and the doctor was able to wean me off of it. I now sleep 6 – 8 hours every night.

In live in an area that I absolutely love after being a ‘city girl’ for most of my life. I can sit in the living room and watch the river flow (even though it sometimes still boggles my mind to watch it flow north); I watch coyotes walk across the field and see a Bald Eagle fly through the valley. I can stand in the front yard and count the deer in the hills or watch a momma bear with her cubs as she looks for food. I also get to plant a buffet for the deer, I mean a garden. We had fresh tomatoes all last summer and if this summer goes well, we will have tomatoes, peppers, raspberries, strawberries and blueberries.

As I am writing this, it is 10:40 in the evening and it is still light outside. This is a source of irritation and amusement all at the same time. In the summer we are lucky if we have four hours of darkness and in the winter we have four hours of light. Speaking of winters... I am the only one who is entertained by the snow and we have snow around 6 months out of the year. How cool is that? We even had flurries last week.

I have a relationship that feeds my need and desire for structure and protocol. Those two things feed me at my core and provide a deep sense of contentment and security. There is such a rush when he gets that certain tone and say "Kyra, I want you to....".

I am in a relationship with two people who love me for who I am and not for what I do. I love them for who they are and not for what they do for me.

I am mentally and emotionally healthier than I have ever been. Ten years ago I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. I clawed my way out of a pit of hell and put myself on a path towards a healthy well-being. Then I met him and he showed me ways that were even more constructive to improving my well-being.

Honestly, there is very little that I would see as negative about our relationship and my life now and much that is extremely positive.

Knight's Kyra





SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:34:17 PM)

quote:


That might actually take awhile and I don't really view anything that I wrote before as being 'taken away' though I know that some would see it that way.

I now have a family of six that I adore and would do anything for. While not their mom, I cry in joy when we go to recitals or school plays. I now have two mother-in-laws and a father-in-law. Despite the fact, that his mother can drive us all batty, we love her dearly. I have learned that having an intellectual conversation within a small group feeds me more than ‘alone time’. I have learned to take advantage of the brief periods of alone time that I do get. I have learned what donairs, perogies and poutines are; some I liked and some I don’t really care for.

When I first met him, I was an insomniac. Sleeping more than a few hours at a time was quite rare for me even with prescribed sleep medication. He required that I get to a point that I did not need medication and that I actually slept most of the night. In less than six months, I no longer needed the medication and the doctor was able to wean me off of it. I now sleep 6 – 8 hours every night.

In live in an area that I absolutely love after being a ‘city girl’ for most of my life. I can sit in the living room and watch the river flow (even though it sometimes still boggles my mind to watch it flow north); I watch coyotes walk across the field and see a Bald Eagle fly through the valley. I can stand in the front yard and count the deer in the hills or watch a momma bear with her cubs as she looks for food. I also get to plant a buffet for the deer, I mean a garden. We had fresh tomatoes all last summer and if this summer goes well, we will have tomatoes, peppers, raspberries, strawberries and blueberries.

As I am writing this, it is 10:40 in the evening and it is still light outside. This is a source of irritation and amusement all at the same time. In the summer we are lucky if we have four hours of darkness and in the winter we have four hours of light. Speaking of winters... I am the only one who is entertained by the snow and we have snow around 6 months out of the year. How cool is that? We even had flurries last week.

I have a relationship that feeds my need and desire for structure and protocol. Those two things feed me at my core and provide a deep sense of contentment and security. There is such a rush when he gets that certain tone and say "Kyra, I want you to....".

I am in a relationship with two people who love me for who I am and not for what I do. I love them for who they are and not for what they do for me.

I am mentally and emotionally healthier than I have ever been. Ten years ago I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. I clawed my way out of a pit of hell and put myself on a path towards a healthy well-being. Then I met him and he showed me ways that were even more constructive to improving my well-being.

Honestly, there is very little that I would see as negative about our relationship and my life now and much that is extremely positive.

Knight's Kyra


Well Kyra, reading this made me really happy. I am starting to appreciate such relationships. I understand yours, and especially this need for structure and protocol  is the thing that I can also relate to, because I need it too in some degree.
You learned so many things, and probably you grew as a person, too. So, I think you are enjoying your life.
I apologize for my previous lack of understanding. After all, I was a bit too concerned about this "stress on job" and "not being alone" thing. But it seems that your life is much better than it was, and you even learned to replace some of your previous needs with healthier ones.
And being in such a big family is lovely too.

You know what. I also sometimes tend to know better than some people what is better for them. So I persuade them to do something, and then they enjoy it even more than they would enjoy doing their usual stuff. I do it outside of formal M/s. But, the principle is the same.





laurell3 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:36:47 PM)

Yes, I know I have said this before, I will say it again.

KoM and kyra, thank you for sharing. Your relationship and obvious care and love for your family is astounding and amazing. I have never seen any post that lead me to think anything otherwise and am so very happy for you.




leadership527 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:38:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Honestly, there is very little that I would see as negative about our relationship and my life now and much that is extremely positive.
Ahhh, but don't you understand? You only say that because you are a poor brainwashed woman who has clearly lost her grip on reality. Don't worry though, there are a few on these boards who will happily fix you and save you from the horridly abusive relationship you've found yourself in.

Man, someone needs to invent greenpeace for slaves instead of whales. We could have a bunch of guys in a black car with a pirate flags hanging off the antennas driving around saving all the slaves.




SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:42:51 PM)

quote:

Ahhh, but don't you understand? You only say that because you are a poor brainwashed woman who has clearly lost her grip on reality. Don't worry though, there are a few on these boards who will happily fix you and save you from the horridly abusive relationship you've found yourself in.

Man, someone needs to invent greenpeace for slaves instead of whales. We could have a bunch of guys in a black car with a pirate flags hanging off the antennas driving around saving all the slaves.


Having in mind what kinds of comments and questions I posted recently, such comment is completely appropriate.




laurell3 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:45:18 PM)

The guy hasn't left the boards in like 10 days, he clearly has his own issues. Someone find him a Master!




SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:51:07 PM)

quote:

The guy hasn't left the boards in like 10 days, he clearly has his own issues. Someone find him a Master!


If I had to be submissive to someone, then it would certainly be a Mistress, not Master. [:D]




MsLadySue -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:51:09 PM)

Better still, somebody unplug his computer.




AnimusRex -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:51:30 PM)

SN-
I think you are struggling to wrap your head around things that appear to make no sense, and maybe never will. But that is how life is, isn't it?
Why do some people like to play with shit?
Damned if I know. Is it healthy?

I don't know, and really, don't care. Are the other posters here in healthy life affirming relationships?
Don't know, don't care.

What I DO know, is that not one of them has asked me to evaluate or pass judgment on their relationships. They seem to be doing fine without my blessing or imprimatur.

When people start threads with "what do you think of THIS...." then I comment. But aside from that- all I can say is "live long and prosper."

You will never meet these people- you will never know if what they say is true or bullshit, or if they are psychotic or well-adjusted.

If they say they are master and slave- just let it go.




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