RE: Slavery is bullshit

RE: Slavery is bullshit (Full Version)

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SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:52:41 PM)
quote: Better still, somebody unplug his computer. That's not gonna happen . Though I admit, I have to cut the time I spend online.

leadership527 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:53:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Having in mind what kinds of comments and questions I posted recently, such comment is completely appropriate. chuckles In truth SN, just as I have written before, I can so sympathize and I'm pleased to see that your worldview is opening up. Honestly, I said and wrote a lot of really, really stupid things too when I first got into all of this. I'm perhaps a bit older than you so I didn't write nearly as many stupid things as I thought. But all the same, I recognize the need to understand before engaging and I sympathize with the radical roller coaster ride it is when dearly held cornerstones of one's worldview are tossed aside willy nilly. Here's one of Jeff's personal rules of life which you may (or may not) find useful in this context: When obviously intelligent people are saying patently stupid things, then somewhere, somehow, you are missing an important piece of the puzzle.

leadership527 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:56:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex What I DO know, is that not one of them has asked me to evaluate or pass judgment on their relationships. They seem to be doing fine without my blessing or imprimatur. Actually, I've been meaning to ask you Animus, waddayathink of my marriage? Are Carol and I doing OK? (laughs I just had to ask that because now you can't write that anymore. Forever after it's going to be "And only once has someone ever asked me...")

SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 10:57:35 PM)
quote: When obviously intelligent people are saying patently stupid things, then somewhere, somehow, you are missing an important piece of the puzzle. I agree 100%. I will incorporate this in my own life philosophy. Thank you for sharing!

laurell3 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 11:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: The guy hasn't left the boards in like 10 days, he clearly has his own issues. Someone find him a Master! If I had to be submissive to someone, then it would certainly be a Mistress, not Master. [:D] Really? I don't think that's healthy for you! You should be with a male! What are you thinking? Bad things will happen! grins SN, THAT is the equivalent of what you are saying to people here. I would guess that's not something you are ever going to change and you just aren't wired that way. Neither are we and all the logic and philosophy in the world isn't going change it any more than it's going to change you. A wise man once told me when I was very young, you think too much, realize this, sometimes what is is. I still think too much, but it was a good lesson. [;)]

Elisabella -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 12:19:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 sighs I just love people who are possessed of the TRUTH(tm). Your statement is both factually incorrect and also logically inconsistent with observable norms. But hey, thank you for educating me on reality. It's really quite handy. My two teenage sons passed into their 20's and so they no longer still know everything. Now I know where to turn in a pinch. Dude like I said I don't really care if you call your wife "slave" or "snugglebunny" but your marriage is not, as you said, "ownership in the exactly literal sense of that." It's certainly ownership in the figurative sense but you don't have any lawful property rights. You telling your wife "I own you" is just as figurative as when I tell someone I beat in video games that I own their face. And like I said before, whatever floats your boat is fine, but you can't present it as objective reality when there is absolutely no basis for your ownership other than the fact that you like that word better than "control" or "dominate."

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 12:29:02 AM)
Kyra, Thankyou so much for what you wrote-it really was a pleasure to read about your life and your happinesses [:D] I apologise for the poor phrasing of the question-I sort of knew at the time that 'taken away' wasn't exactly what I wanted to say but it was crazy o'clock in the morning and I couldn't come up with anything better.

NorthernGent -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 12:51:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Being a slave in no way meant you had anything but hatred and loathing for your master. This seems to be at the heart of your post......so can you give more details on this? I have a feeling you're wide of the mark. Do you have some sort of empirical evidence for this? I suppose you could say that abolishing slavery tells a story yet that was a decision taken not by slaves. What about what slaves actually thought? I'd hazard a guess that the well looked after slaves held feelings for their masters beyond 'hatred and loathing' I think you're making the mistake of judging a situation based on modern (accepted) customs and practice. And in terms of 'slavery is bullshit'........seems very real to me....considering its incidence over a prolonged period of time.

heartcream -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 1:24:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists Well that would be kind of difficult since being with him is one of the things that I like.... Absolutes are unrealistic. Some of the things I have had to do that many would find a deal breaker: Live in a poly and open relationship (I was looking for monogamy) Let him handle all of my finances (this was actually a challenge for me and now I don't think twice about it) Move to another country Move away from all of my biological family Help raise four kids (I never wanted the responsibiltiy that comes with children) Work at a job that causes high anxiety and stress for me(there are times that I cry because I have to go to work) Time alone is almost impossible (I am an extreme introvert and alone time was a need that I have learned to fulfill in other ways) I am not allowed to knit in public (how insensitive of him!!!) I do not have 'my private space'. In fact, I do not have a 'my' anything. When I show a sense of ownership towards things he will squash it. Give a sadist free reign over my body when I do not consider myself to be a masochist. I have gotten rid of social programming that he found unacceptable for our relationship. I have done all of this and more and over five years together and I have not been happier. Knight's Kyra Just no! Knights let her knit in public, geez.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 2:16:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine In the space of a few days I've read some interesting concepts. I'm sincerely glad I know what the heck I'm doing and wasn't dependent on any of this for informational purposes.... You ain't the only one. What's sad is that some people are reading the message boards looking for dependable information. Ummmm... then again this not suprise me too much, I caught hell for a "shaping and molding" thread I once started. Some people took extremely negative in bad directions.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 2:33:29 AM)
All I gotta say is this...GOREAN slave girls rock (sheepish grin knowing the implications involved with this post)

jbcurious -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 3:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Some people need to suffer for the pleasure of their Master. It is a need... it is how they show their attachment to their Master... as property (some would say). For some people, (some of those that refer to themselves as slave)... suffering brings a sense of peace, contentment and serenity most of the time. You know what - suffering is suffering and it has nothing to do with peace and serenity, let alone contentment. You can't suffer, I mean really SUFFER and be at peace, serene and content at the same time. Logical impossibility. When it comes to "need" to suffer, you are maybe right - but even if there is such a need, it's not very healthy need. Some people need to smoke or to do heroin, yet it is slowly killing them. Maybe there is a way to remove such need. Tell that to Monks who prostate themselves for hours on cold hard concrete... to those who use self flagellation to create a state of grace..to mountsin climbers who endure frostbite and altitude sicknesd in order to feel the rush of the summit... People have used suffering as a means of fulfillment and a raising of themselves to a higher plane since early man.

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 3:44:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4 What's sad is that some people are reading the message boards looking for dependable information. Sadly, I agree. I realize some invent controversy in threads to stimulate interesting dialog (all well and good), but it has struck me lately that the message boards are harboring some fairly antithetical viewpoints about D/s that aren't concerned so much with getting to truth as couching moralization and disinformation in pseudo-intellectual hyper philosophic psychobabble, excessive negativity or crude satire. This is not in the spirit of helpful advice or even the "helpful enemy"; It's anti-informative, and I tend to question the motives behind this thing that is all too persistent in arguing the color of the sky on a clear day.

Focus50 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 4:02:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 A little help please, Simply.... Simply's thread title: "Slavery is bullshit" Simply's perpetual signature line: "Wonderful slaves are made by wonderful relationships" Question: Is this thread motivated along philosophical interest and inquiry or just a bitter rant 'cause your relationship life has hit a trough? Focus. Focus, I actually have more women that I know what to do with at the moment. Ahh, then relationship wise, you're currently in the doghouse? Me too, but without all the peripheral fem-meat distractions (dammit). Errrrm, you suck...! lol quote: Sorry the meaning of my tagline escapes you but it seems to work rather well for me. You mean it's not an acknowledgement of your cotton plantation owning ancestry? Dagnabit.... Focus.

lally2 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 4:11:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbcurious quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Some people need to suffer for the pleasure of their Master. It is a need... it is how they show their attachment to their Master... as property (some would say). For some people, (some of those that refer to themselves as slave)... suffering brings a sense of peace, contentment and serenity most of the time. You know what - suffering is suffering and it has nothing to do with peace and serenity, let alone contentment. You can't suffer, I mean really SUFFER and be at peace, serene and content at the same time. Logical impossibility. When it comes to "need" to suffer, you are maybe right - but even if there is such a need, it's not very healthy need. Some people need to smoke or to do heroin, yet it is slowly killing them. Maybe there is a way to remove such need. Tell that to Monks who prostate themselves for hours on cold hard concrete... to those who use self flagellation to create a state of grace..to mountsin climbers who endure frostbite and altitude sicknesd in order to feel the rush of the summit... People have used suffering as a means of fulfillment and a raising of themselves to a higher plane since early man. and i was thinking of nuns who have no possessions of any sort and dedicate themselves to faith all of their lives. im sure there are moments of extreme struggle and suffering inside. but suffering is relative anyway - because in amongst the suffering that jb has mentioned there is a shift of focus away from themselves and into what they are achieving/attaining/transcending/whatever - for a sub or slave there is actually a pleasure in shifting that focus away from themselves into something or someone else.

Focus50 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 4:17:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Oh, and I am going to be so stoked if you guys push this thread past ten pages on its first day. This is like old times. As you should be. Who else woulda thunk there'd be mileage in starting a topic publically trashing an entire social demographic. If you was to run and I was a yank, I'd vote for you as Prez.... Focus.

Silence8 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 6:45:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: When obviously intelligent people are saying patently stupid things, then somewhere, somehow, you are missing an important piece of the puzzle. I agree 100%. I will incorporate this in my own life philosophy. Thank you for sharing! Then again, I've met extremely intelligent people who have turned out to be racists, bigots, fundamentalists, and the like. Never underestimate intelligence to 'specialize' itself out of reason. All blades are double-edged, it would seem.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 7:03:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 Never underestimate intelligence to 'specialize' itself out of reason. It amazes me how someone who spends so much time telling others to examine themselves can say this with a straight face.

heartcream -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 7:10:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian quote: ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4 What's sad is that some people are reading the message boards looking for dependable information. Sadly, I agree. I realize some invent controversy in threads to stimulate interesting dialog (all well and good), but it has struck me lately that the message boards are harboring some fairly antithetical viewpoints about D/s that aren't concerned so much with getting to truth as couching moralization and disinformation in pseudo-intellectual hyper philosophic psychobabble, excessive negativity or crude satire. This is not in the spirit of helpful advice or even the "helpful enemy"; It's anti-informative, and I tend to question the motives behind this thing that is all too persistent in arguing the color of the sky on a clear day. Is that really so complicated? Tis bluuuuuuuuuue. Do you think people come here in the spirit of helpful advice? I know when I joined I wanted to hear what folks had to say. I know how to google if I need something more straight forward. There are enormous amounts of nutbars on our planet and there is no shortage here. One person's helpful advice is another's narrow minded Newtonian, often overly verbose self-righteous densed up poo poo. I think it is pretty funny to expect to come here to get trustworthy information although there actually seems to be plenty of it among all the slinging of so-called ideas, opinion and plain boring rants etc. Some of the people that present themselves as helpful, um, nope, I would not suggest listening to the utterage out of their gobs. C'est moi darling.

kyraofMists -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/29/2010 7:36:24 AM)
VC, It was my pleasure and I do not think an apology was necessary but it is accepted. I understood your intention with the question and many would view those things as being taken away. I just choose to look at it from a more positive perspective. Knight's Kyra

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