CynthiaWVirginia
Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lucylucy
My dad and I have always had a very volatile relationship. For reasons I don't understand, he has always been highly critical of me, calling me ugly, fat, lazy, etc. to my face and in front of others (none of these things is remotely true, which makes me believe that his criticism of me actually has nothing to do with me personally). He's also extremely manipulative and self-centered. About ten years ago, I seriously considered just cutting off all contact with him because of the emotional damage his criticism and manipulation was causing me. I ended up deciding instead that having my dad in my life was important enough that I should just continue sucking it up and put up with the criticism. Also, my sister told me that having the three of us be on good terms is very important to her and she asked me to please get along with him as a favor to her.
Fast forward ten years. His criticism and manipulation have continued and now that my daughter is 8 years old, she's starting to pick up on it. A few months ago, she starting calling me fat and lazy and other things that she'd heard her grandfather call me. When we talked about it, she said she thought it was ok to say those things to me because my father does. More recently, he gave my sister, who has no children, flowers for Mother's Day in front of my daughter and me and gave me nothing. Later, my daughter wanted to know why he did that and I had a really hard time giving a neutral answer (I don't want to poison her relationship with him).
I am again considering cutting off contact with him, but I don't know if I'm being selfish. If I cut off contact with him, my sister will be very upset and, of course, my daughter will miss out on developing a relationship with her grandfather. On the other hand, I think I have valid concerns that it might be in my daughter's best interest to not have a relationship with him.
How do you decide when to end a relationship with a family member? How do you minimize the effect it has on other family members? Am I just being dramatic and ridiculous? Does anyone have book recommendations? Words of wisdom?
(Note: my mother died when I was a kid, so talking to her is not an option. Also, my dad and sister and I tried family therapy years ago and it went very badly--we burned out three therapists pretty quickly.)
Thank you.
Sorry, but today I just don't have time to read what everyone else posted after this first post, so I'm responding to it alone.
Our family has had a lot of problems, mine also had my father pitting my sister and I against each other. The sister who is treated well is the one who defends dear old daddy.
When he gave her flowers for Mother's Day, she should have kissed his cheek, told him she loves him but that the flowers aren't appropriate as she's never been a mother. This was something he did in front of you to hurt you, and she assisted him in this (maybe without realizing how she was being used.) She could have stood up for you by kissing him and thanking him and telling him that she loves him, but giving the flowers to you right then and there, with a smile, saying that you are the mother and that the flowers should belong to you. She didn't stand up for you. Period.
This is a problem and she needs to understand her part in all this mess. I don't know about this being in a book, but my sister was helped to see the light (she's in Texas and I'm in WV, so my influence on her has been very small) because of her church. Her church paid an assistant of Dr. Phil go give a seminar on this subject.
My sister phoned me to apologise for past wrongs, and she itemized some of them, when she assisted our father's abusive ways. She hadn't understood her part in it, and hadn't known how to break the cycle. During the workshop, she was forced to roleplay being in my shoes so she could feel what had been going on.
Another point, you can love someone, but set limits on them. Sometimes you can avoid cutting their toxic presence out of your life forever. When mom retired and moved back to WV, I decided that it was time to start detoxifying her. It was gentle but firm, and with lots of reassurances of love, because for my mother she has this huge empty space where her own mother and siblings never loved her. I became head of our household...and she has grown so much over these years that family and long time friends comment on it. I have told her that I always wanted a daughter, I just didn't know it would be her.  She loves herself more now, and knows that because I love her I will also hold up a mirror to her face when she's acted ugly, and if she is wrong headed I will talk to her in such a way as to put her into the other person's shoes.
Without telling someone you love them, often (reaching their heart), you can't reach their mind. You are doing them a disservice if you don't let them know when they HURT YOU by being verbally abusive. (Some vanillas aren't even aware of being verbally abusive. My parents didn't.) One goes with the other...when in your father's company, find some way to tell him that you love him (say an "I love you, daddy" before putting a drink down on the table before him, or something), and whenever he says something hurtful, let it show on your face. Tell him you wish he weren't so verbally abusive, but you guess he just can't help himself because he doesn't know any better. Have you ever told him he was verbally abusive? Not when your sister was present to back him up and make you feel ashamed of yourself for saying so?
All of this is only my opinion, from my own experiences.
I tell my son everything. When grandma was hateful, we'd have a talk after she was gone and I'd explain that grandma loves both of us but that her ugly side came out. I've told him she hurt my feelings, that I still love her, but that saying (whatever it was) was a bad thing to do and that she will be upset with herself later on.
My child may be exposed to a lot of bad manners, like while watching tv or listening to the family, but we must point these bad things out...face them point blank...and talk about them. You don't want your daughter to model her grandfather's behavior, I know this is awkward but she needs to know that words like those are cruel and disrespectful.
If you need to take a big step back from your father and sister, do it without a grand exit. If your daughter notices not seeing them for a while, just be honest and tell her that you deserve better from them, that you're angry or hurt and need some time out.
I also made it very clear to my son that when two people are arguing, he's to STAY OUT OF IT. I don't want him taking my side against grandma or his aunt or cousin. I love him and know that he loves me back, but I'm an adult and can stand up for myself. If my son disrespected me enough to call me names...he'd be subject to a long, staring silence first. I don't name call, but this has come up before and I have told him "Oh, so you want a new family rule so that name calling is allowed? I'm a lot older than you are, know a lot more names that you will EVER know...and you do not want to get into a battle of words with me or I will rip you to shreds until there's nothing left. Maybe you'd better reprase what you just said." I've only had to give this speech maybe twice in his lifetime; he's 20 years old now.
I grew up hearing curses as my very first words. I didn't want my family to run on verbal abuse so I don't do it and I won't allow it.
When my son was young and incapable of not parroting bad behavior, I eliminated cable tv. Where we live, before digital and without cable tv there were no local channels available. We watched movies on VHS and later on DVD, and discussed them afterward. I pass my values on to him, and the reasons for my rules. He can contrast my rules to other people's...he has, and prefers mine/ours.
How do you decide when to end a relationship with a family member? When there is no other choice. When they hurt you, destroy your family, are fully aware of this and refuse to admit there's a problem. Sometimes the more distance you put between you, the more fond of them you'll become. Just stop wearing the "it's fine with me" mask they want you to wear so that THEY feel more comfortable.
How do you minimize the effect it has on other family members? Sometimes the effect shouldn't be minimized. The boat needs to be rocked...the elephant walking though the house acknowledged. This is a family problem, not just yours. You are the whipping boy for your father, and this needs to change. If a movie can make people become more aware of something and make their conscience grow...why can't family and friends do this for someone as well? It's a choice we make each day, either to stand by as a silent enabler, or to stand up for what's right. All of your relatives let this slide, as well as any other witnesses to this behavior.
Am I just being dramatic and ridiculous? No and no. Life is what life is. If someone doesn't want to read what you have to say then they should go to another thread.
Does anyone have book recommendations? Words of wisdom?
You might want to find out what the name of that seminar Dr. Phil gives. I'll have to see if one of my sister's old letters mentions it by name. You might want to look into books by Haim G. Ginott (I know they're on raising children, without violence or abuse), or these:
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
Liberated Parents, Liberated Children: Your Guide to a Happier Family, by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
They're not just for raising children, I used this information to handle a lot of people when I was promoted into management without being given any training. Both books helped me...and at least one has a chapter on the damages done by verbal abuse within a family or on the playground. Words can kill.
Good luck with your family.
Isn't it funny, but sometimes...the child...must lead...
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RE: When to end a relationship - 
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