lucylucy
Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
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Thank you again, everyone, for the good advice, the hugs, the good luck wishes, etc. I am back from a wonderful Memorial Day weekend, which gave me some time/space to consider my situation with a little distance between myself and my dad. I've had time to read and think about all your wonderful responses and advice. Everyone who posted gave me something and I am very grateful that you all took the time to respond. Some of the advice that really struck a chord with me:
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ORIGINAL: Level
End it now, and do it definitively.
I enjoy your posts, and I don't say this with any desire to hurt you, but fuck him, and your sister. Don't let them pollute your life, and that of your child.
I am going to talk to my dad this week in person and tell him why I am ending contact with him. I considered just not returning phone calls, etc., but we live in the same town and I don't want there to be any confusion on his part about whether I am just too busy (he'll think lazy) to return phone calls. I want him to know that this is a conscious decision on my part.
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ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
you should consider whether it's more important for your daughter to have a relationship with your father during this impressionable phase of life, or if it's better to limit contact so that she doesn't learn to imitate dysfunctional behavior. quote:
ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
the game has changed. You owe your kid. The dynamics now are fatal to you and her relationship. You do not have a choice but to cut off. Because if you don't your daughter will be a carbon copy of this jerk. quote:
ORIGINAL: CalifChick
You owe yourself and your child peace before you owe your sister anything. She will just have to deal with it. Your child is already learning that it is acceptable to treat you the way your father treats you. That is NOT okay.
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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Walk away, Lucy. I won't go into why I feel that way from my own little life, but do it for the sake of your daughter. She does NOT need to see you being treated shabbily by your dad. And how soon before SHE becomes the target herself?
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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
You have essentially subjected yourself to emotional abuse for years so others can be happy. That can't be an easy situation at all. I am going through something very similar (in a reversed situation) myself and the concept of cutting ties is emotionally wrenching.
Many people believe that they are "obligated" to love their parents or their grown children, and it simply isn't the case. As others have said, if not for the familial relationship, would you ever keep someone such as this in your life? It is toxic for you and toxic for your daughter as well. You have already seen that she is learning it is ok to disrespect you because he does. This will overflow eventually to other areas of her life, whether it is that she feels it is ok to disrespect others or that she needs to accept this disrespect from others. It isn't healthy.
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ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven
And don't forget he's setting an example for her - of how a father treats a daughter, or what a grandfather's role is in the extended family- is that really the image you want her to grow up with? Because at this stage in her life she's going to start being very focused on seeing how male-female dynamics work - and she needs positive male influences in her life.
All of the comments that pointed out my responsibility to my daughter to keep her safe emotionally really helped me put my sister's desire for me to just "get along" with my dad in perspective. My sister is an adult who can take care of herself, but my daughter depends on me to take care of her and to model healthy behavior.
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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Lucy, let me ask you a question... if this person wasn't connected to you by blood, would you allow him to have any influence in your life, or have contact with your daughter? Would you tolerate being treated that way by an associate who -wasn't- family? If not, then why would you accept it from family.
Family are just a genetic accident -- "familial relationships", in the sense of what they mean, rather than being based solely on some genetic ties, are ties forged of common concern, caring, affection, and support... so while you may have a genetic link to this man, he is certainly not what I would consider "familial", and I'd cut the ties before he damages you, your daughter, and your relationship with your daughter.
I have to second Red's comments about closing contact now not necessarily meaning closing contact forever. My father was not a pleasant person where I was concerned, and his attitude and behavior were intolerable through much of my young life. When my mother died, some things happened that just blew years of cruelty out into the open and laid them bare, and I had to go through the same evaluation I mentioned to you (very quickly, in my mind, in the midst of my father's vituperative harang)... in the end, I hung up on my dad and didn't speak to him again for 10 years -- at which point, he contacted me wanting me to be part of his life again. We established ground rules for communication as adults, and for the past 15 years, he has been IMPECCABLE about sticking to those ground rules, and has grown into a supportive man whom I am happy to call "Papa".
This is a lovely outcome. Unfortunately, I set some ground rules with my dad a couple years ago and he has not been able to stick with them. Actually I set one ground rule and I thought it would be easy for him to follow: don't talk trash about me in front of my daughter. Obviously, that one rule was too much for him.
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ORIGINAL: Rule
Do walk away, but explain to your daughter why. Tell her it is not to punish her, nor your dad, but to protect her as well as yourself.
This is very helpful. My daughter loves her grandfather and I need a way to explain this all to her. Thanks.
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ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Moreover since your sister is the one who wants all of you to get along, have her confront him about his hostility towards you. Let her make it clear that he doesn't get to see his grand unless he can be civil to her mother. Don't allow her to guilt you about you breaking up the family because you aren't the one doing that, he is. It's his fault and he needs to be the one to fix it, which includes telling you why he's always sought to hurt you. He needs to take responsibility for his own actions and now's his chance. If he chooses not to, then he will know from your sister that it's entirely his fault.
But unless he can treat you with respect he does not deserve to see your daughter.
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ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
When he gave her flowers for Mother's Day, she should have kissed his cheek, told him she loves him but that the flowers aren't appropriate as she's never been a mother. This was something he did in front of you to hurt you, and she assisted him in this (maybe without realizing how she was being used.) She could have stood up for you by kissing him and thanking him and telling him that she loves him, but giving the flowers to you right then and there, with a smile, saying that you are the mother and that the flowers should belong to you. She didn't stand up for you. Period.
I really hope my sister will come around but I don't think she will. She's not a "rock the boat" kind of person and she doesn't approve of people who are (I have always rocked the boat). Cynthia, I love your vision of how she should have handled the flowers! When I talked to my sister about this situation right after Mother's Day, she said, "Well, what could I do without being rude?" She saw my angry response as rude but not his giving her flowers or her accepting them.
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ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
A quick 'karate chop' to criticism is repeating it back with a laugh: 'Wow, you wouldn't believe what I thought you just said: it sounded like 'x'.
If they back down, great. If they say they DID say 'x', then call them on it and say, 'Don't say that to me again.'
If they still do, keep calm no matter what, say, 'Remember what I said about how that kind of language makes me feel' and change the subject.
You can't change them, only how you react, and eventually how you feel.
I love this technique and I think I will use it on my sister if she gives me any grief about my decision.
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ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
A word of caution... when you are making this decision, it will cause a good amount of angst and second guessing. Be clear. Write it down if you need to. When you decide, act. And stick to your decision. Revisiting it some time later is not a bad thing.
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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
the thing is NO has to mean NO.
Pick a time frame and stick with it. otherwise it all negotiates to where you have no say so.
I've been considering this move for a while, and I've done the second guessing. It helped tremendously to write my original post and the responses. No has to mean no, which is why I want to tell my dad about my decision in person--so there's no misunderstanding on his part or mine about how serious I am and what has led to this decision.
And to all of you who are going through or who have gone through similar situations, good luck.
_____________________________
“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi
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RE: When to end a relationship - 
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