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Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 12:07:41 AM   
khem


Posts: 300
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I'm having a hard time sorting out what s-type men really want.  It seems like most will say anything/pretend to like anything to capture the interest of a woman.  When it comes down to it, I feel like I have remarkably little in common with the men that have pursued me - although they seem to go to great lengths to hide this fact.  Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  For the men here, how do you navigate wanting to be pleasing and open (and obedient) with the reality of your desires?

Also, does anyone have advice for dealing with submissive men who have little to no  real life experience.  It seems like I am incapable of breaking through their misconceptions about D/s relationships -- no amount of talking and getting to know someone seems to fix this (but a failed relationship generally does the trick...I just don't care to keep putting myself through that).
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 12:21:23 AM   
omkfY


Posts: 104
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From: State of Jefferson
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

I'm having a hard time sorting out what s-type men really want. 

Just ask each man individually. Most, if not all, will probably be more than happy to talk about themselves & what they want.


quote:

It seems like most will say anything/pretend to like anything to capture the interest of a woman. When it comes down to it, I feel like I have remarkably little in common with the men that have pursued me - although they seem to go to great lengths to hide this fact.  Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

So that's how they do it...

In all seriousness, keep looking, there are plenty of good guys out there. I suspect many women don't trust their intuition when guys are shining them on -- trust yours...

quote:

For the men here, how do you navigate wanting to be pleasing and open (and obedient) with the reality of your desires?

Being honest with myself and potential dommes. If we're clearly not going to match, why waste the time? If there is a chance we may match, we might as well know going into it what potential sticking points lie ahead...

quote:

Also, does anyone have advice for dealing with submissive men who have little to no  real life experience.  It seems like I am incapable of breaking through their misconceptions about D/s relationships -- no amount of talking and getting to know someone seems to fix this (but a failed relationship generally does the trick...I just don't care to keep putting myself through that).

Just be honest and clear (pretend you're explaining it to your most dense friend). It probably won't stop game players saying anything to get a short-term fling, but it will at least prevent misunderstandings and confusion with some of the honest guys...

(in reply to khem)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 2:46:25 AM   
MissAsylum


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i'd have to agree and say that honesty is KEY. yes, many members here just want a wham, bam encounter- and even with that, since they may little to no real expirence, its very likely that FemDomme porn will be the source of their fantasy and misconceptions. i suggest taking a look at some videos of that sort to have some back knowledge of what some people may think the D/s dynamic is about. if you find out that they think a D/s relationship consists of what they have seen in FemDomme porn, simply(and i mean VERY SIMPLY)say that this is a lemonade stand- you are offering lemonade. if they ask you for milk- point to the sign that says "lemonade".

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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 5:11:01 AM   
LadyAngelika


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khem - I'm going to refer you to a few discussions which took place here (one still active a few days ago) which I think that if you read through, you'll get insight.

The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman will give you a backgrounder as to where some of the disconnect came from.

Bottom vs. sub is a complement to that first thread in that it goes into the perspective of how men try to figure out which they are. (LadyPact predicted it could be used as a learning thread and she was right).

Two of my personal favourites were threads I started in the Ask A Submissive section:

- Boys... Speak up and tell us what is it that you want! (2005)
- Boys... Speak up and tell us what is it that you want!, Take 2 (2010)

The answers are so absolutely open and honest. I'm quite surprised that more Dommes didn't interact on the last one. Maybe they simply read it silently ;-)

- LA


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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 6:30:05 AM   
blackpearl81


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From: Home of the Yankees
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

I'm having a hard time sorting out what s-type men really want.  It seems like most will say anything/pretend to like anything to capture the interest of a woman.  When it comes down to it, I feel like I have remarkably little in common with the men that have pursued me - although they seem to go to great lengths to hide this fact.  Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  For the men here, how do you navigate wanting to be pleasing and open (and obedient) with the reality of your desires?

Also, does anyone have advice for dealing with submissive men who have little to no  real life experience.  It seems like I am incapable of breaking through their misconceptions about D/s relationships -- no amount of talking and getting to know someone seems to fix this (but a failed relationship generally does the trick...I just don't care to keep putting myself through that).



This is definitely a tough spot.

I think ultimately, the other person needs to have a fair amount of patience (in regards to sub men that have little/no experience). Also, IMO, a dynamic is a constant learning experience - learning new things about Y/your partner, kinks, etc.

Misconceptions about D/s in general is probably brought on by media - I'm sure you've seen it: the statuesque brunette/blonde/redhead, decked out in a catsuit, thigh high nut puncturers (aka stilletos), complete with a 6 foot Indiana Jones bullwhip.

What misconceptions are You talking about? Is there something specific?

_____________________________

~ Karma. Being a motherfucker since 1981 ~

Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.

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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 6:35:07 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

i'd have to agree and say that honesty is KEY. if you find out that they think a D/s relationship consists of what they have seen in FemDomme porn, simply(and i mean VERY SIMPLY)say that this is a lemonade stand- you are offering lemonade. if they ask you for milk- point to the sign that says "lemonade".


There was a great poet, Robert Frost I believe, who penned....

"Milk, milk, lemonade, turn the corner fudge is made.".................Stay young, Pony Boy.

_____________________________



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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 8:38:11 AM   
LadyPact


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Let Me start by saying that, while I understand where you are coming from, I don't focus any criteria on what submissive males want.  The thing is, I know what I want.  I have to be aware of that if there is going to be a real compatibility factor with any potential submissive that I meet.

With that said, the longer I've been doing this, the less likely I am to be willing to take on anybody who doesn't have some reality based idea of authority dynamics.  There's a difference between starting at ground zero and having to straighten out somebody's perception because everything they think they know has been built on fantasy.  Very much a part of My criteria anymore has become what has a person done to educate themselves since becoming interested in all of this.  What have they done to be pro-active in learning things about this lifestyle, or did they just wait for Me to come along to teach them everything?  There's enough of a learning process involved in two people getting to know each other.  I'm much more interested in someone who has made some effort to learn about himself, his submission, and something about BDSM before I came into the picture.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 12:22:39 PM   
khem


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

 I don't focus any criteria on what submissive males want.  The thing is, I know what I want. 



I guess what I'm looking for is advice on how to deal with people that seem to mirror my desires in the effort gain my attention.  I guess I should call their bluff early on - generally speaking that can be done with needles, I think :D

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 12:25:47 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

generally speaking that can be done with needles, I think :D
The smiley at the end of that sentence elevates it from funny to wonderful. That's the spirit!


_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.




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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 12:38:49 PM   
Lockit


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Khem, I put very little in the way of kink or likes and dislikes on my profile, in part because of this. I don't rush to kink speak, but when I do go there, I am asking what their interest's are. I will not give mine first. I may give one or two small things to get things started but I don't go down a list. I want to hear what they have to say. I don't want yes men, or men trying to fit me. I want a man who does fit me and is honest with me about his desires.

I have found that if they confuse me when discussing their likes and dislikes, that I find they haven't been honest about them. They read that I am mildly interested in some kink and then claim they aren't into pain or whatever when they actually are interested, they can't find someone else and are trying to get a little action with me until they can find someone who does play the way they want. lol

I would take on a newbie, after all I was a newbie and am still not all that experienced in the kink aspects or shall I say the more sadistic types. I have been female lead in many relationships though and had my kinky/dominant self well in place. I do ask about their relationships of all kinds and how they worked, what they felt and such to get an idea of where they are coming from. They may have no experience being submissive in a titled relationship, but most were submissive in some way in vanilla relationships, just as I was dominant in many vanilla relationships. If they don't have a desire to please and certain things that show they we submissive in some manner, I am typically not going to believe they know what they are talking about especially if porn or web sites have a great deal of focus.


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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to khem)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 1:15:44 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem
I guess what I'm looking for is advice on how to deal with people that seem to mirror my desires in the effort gain my attention.  I guess I should call their bluff early on - generally speaking that can be done with needles, I think :D



A gal after My own heart. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to khem)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 3:28:26 PM   
khem


Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Khem, I put very little in the way of kink or likes and dislikes on my profile, in part because of this.



That's a very good idea!  I think that also interviewing someone about what they are looking for prior to disclosing my interests will help with this.  Thanks!

(in reply to Lockit)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 4:53:53 PM   
PeonForHer


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I've not commented so far, Khem, because I don't consider that I've had enough experience to go on.  Yet, my instincts tell me so loudly that you need not just to encourage a prospective sub to connect with you in a non-kink way, you need to whack the point into his head with a mallet.   In your position I'd follow Lockit's advice, and then some.

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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 10:12:29 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem
When it comes down to it, I feel like I have remarkably little in common with the men that have pursued me - although they seem to go to great lengths to hide this fact.  Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


Some of this behavior may come from the difficulty of finding a domme and the fear of not being able to find another opportunity. I do not intend to justify the behavior but rather explain what might be creating it.

quote:

For the men here, how do you navigate wanting to be pleasing and open (and obedient) with the reality of your desires?


I am not sure I understand the question. I think what you are asking is how does a submissive balance being pleasing and adapting to preferences of the domme with what one likes himself.

I am grateful that I have opportunities constantly arise and do not have the desperation one might have if that was not the case. So if there is too much distance in the respective wants, I conclude incompatibility.

Beyond that, I see shades of grey for a relationship, which might be more common in men since they can compartmentalize relationships. I am open to shades of grey of relationships and experiences: a romantic D/s relationship, play-only, more. Thus, if I meet someone and they do not strike me as LTR material, I am still open to proceeding to see what possibilities exist. The shades of grey of relationships also require shades of grey of compatibility. The commonality required for a broader relationship or a romantic relationship is greater than that required for a play relationship. Thus, I might overlook or deemphasize lack of type of commonality that might be important for an LTR but not for a play only relationship. If a domme is looking specifically for an LTR, she might ask a prospect what different types of relationships he seeks, and which type he envisions with her. She might ask him to describe what his vision is of the relationship--describe an evening, a day, or a week together. She might ask questions to bring attention to matters he might be overlooking if he is focused on fantasy only. For instance, she might ask about Thanksgiving, or company parties (do you envision a domme accompanying you over Thanksgiving or to a company party?), which will bring attention to how much the two have in common and whether they have common social interests and circles to spend time in vanilla conditions.

quote:

Also, does anyone have advice for dealing with submissive men who have little to no  real life experience.  It seems like I am incapable of breaking through their misconceptions about D/s relationships


If you are able to give a specific example of a misconception, I might be able to answer more towards that specific case. In general, I think an approach similar to the Thanksgiving example above might help (to ask questions that bring attention to reality and other components of self).

I will add that self discovery is a dynamic process. Even after years of experience I wonder how much more there is to discover, and how my wants will be influenced by those that are unmet. For instance, my D/s component alone has a slave heart but I identify as a submissive to balance it out with other components of self. The more a part remains unfed (the slave heart), the more vocal it becomes, which can lead to a shift in wants. Here, there is little one can do beyond seeking experience and reflecting to see how complete or not the experience feels.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 11:06:36 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

For the men here, how do you navigate wanting to be pleasing and open (and obedient) with the reality of your desires?



Patience, Patience, and more Patience. Serving can be amazing, when around the right Domme. While I could share lunch with Lockit, I wouldn't step in to a dungeon with her for a while! Nothing against her, but I would want to know her personality and thoughts on subjects. The subjects could be purely bdsm, or something not related: the weather, politics, music, and even her favorite muppet. The point is, I'm learning how she thinks, and what things are important to her. Just listening goes a long way towards finding a good Domme.

It really comes down to the very basic things. Is she someone to respect? Does she care about things and people beyond herself? Does she show mercy and compassion? Is she a determined person? Why does she want to be a Domme? There are other questions. But that gives you the general idea.

It may sound corny, but really, honestly, I'm happy when my Domme is happy. Whether its 'kidnapping' her for the day at the beach. Making her dinner. Cleaning some of her rooms cus she's just 'had it' with things in her life. Or find that one song on a record (yeah, those black circle thingies), with record player (those machines, that that black circle thingies are used on). In a word: thoughtfulness.

I think you want the sort of sub, who will be thoughtful of you personally. I believe you'll find that sub.

(in reply to khem)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/29/2010 11:09:41 PM   
omkfY


Posts: 104
Joined: 7/7/2009
From: State of Jefferson
Status: offline
My apologies if I take this thread off topic, but this thread makes me wonder... Do any Dommes feel compelled to add a little more fantasy to their profiles than what truly represents their feelings?

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/30/2010 12:34:01 AM   
Lockit


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Joether, I've said it before and I will say it again... smart man!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/30/2010 7:37:15 AM   
ReginaMirus


Posts: 240
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Been there, done that. Here's been my experience...

When I leave a laundry list of things I'm into, it seems to attract a blevy of casual players, who generally search solely by fetish and can't be bothered to read my profile in its entirety. While not an especially BAD thing, it is definitely NOT what I want in a long term relationship, and clogs up my inbox with people who are basically wasting their time and mine by writing to me.

That being said, I really don't mind intelligent conversation. But most that write me that way aren't into that sort of thing, either. I just prefer filtering them out in the first place.

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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/30/2010 8:23:54 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: omkfY

My apologies if I take this thread off topic, but this thread makes me wonder... Do any Dommes feel compelled to add a little more fantasy to their profiles than what truly represents their feelings?

No, I don't.  Truthfully, I think this would tend to add to the problem that the OP is encountering, rather than decrease it.  Not that I think everyone believes the way I do.  I really do believe that there is not a single demographic on the site that is Collar Me that doesn't have profiles written up by folks that are 100% fantasy based without a like of reality based truth in them.

I have exactly one entry in My journal that has any bit of fantasy to it, and even that was based on an event that I was planning to attend at the time.  The local BDSM group that I belonged to was planning a slave auction and part of the preparation 'fun' was that those folks being auctioned off were creating characters for themselves and stories of exactly what placed them in the predicament of being sold.  (Any good event organizer will tell you that you want to generate some buzz before the event so people will be looking forward to attending.)

Not to be outdone, I decided that I was going to write up something in accepting My invitation to the event that played along with the theme.  Just why would someone in the position of keeping slaves be coming to a night of gambling (the first half of the evening for the tops to earn play money to buy the slaves - keeping it legal and fair here) to acquire new ones? 

Anyway, this was a big hit.  Prior to this, only bottoms were really involving themselves in the role play aspect.  (Why other tops never took the opportunity, I don't know, but that wasn't stopping Me.)  I posted it to the group that I belonged to at the time as well as posting it here in My journal.  The idea caught on like wildfire and other tops were writing up characters for themselves, too.  There was even another group who had a member here on CM that loved the idea and wanted to implement it in their own area.

LOL.  OK.  That was longer than I intended it to be, but it might be a fun read.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to omkfY)
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RE: Fantasy Versus Reality?? - 5/30/2010 7:03:03 PM   
Andalusite


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Nope, I'm not really into fantasy or online-only stuff. I'm openminded about trying new things, or things I haven't had an opportunity to try recently, but make a point of using classes or co-topping until I get up to speed. I've done so with needles, fireplay, and electrical play recently with my femsub playpartner. I'm not ready to look now, but when I do, as I did last year, I probably won't include a lot of specifics in my profile, or get into that much until I meet them in person. I feel that waiting until I get a sense of chemistry with them works much better for me, and tends to stay more grounded in reality.

As I mentioned in Beej/MsBehavior's thread, I focus a lot more on my partner's reactions than the specific toys or other techniques used to get those reactions. I've converted a couple of open-minded nillas, and been involved with a couple of other people who were new to BDSM and/or D/s, but they didn't come across as having a big agenda or laundry list of things they needed or even wanted. They were more focused on making me happy and exploring together.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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