RE: How to feel more submissive (Full Version)

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SocratesNot -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 12:44:04 PM)

quote:

Second, you're once again wrong. Yes submission can be a behavior, but it is very much a feeling and sometimes it just is not a headspace you can get to with certain people. You can kneel at their feet until hell freezes over, it isn't going to make you identify them as YOUR dominant. I've met some incredibly cool people over the years that I could never submit to. Submisssion requires many things, the most paramount (imo) being trust, there just are people you never get there with.

You see Socrates, it isn't enough to proclaim things, you have to FEEL them as well, which is also ironically, the piece that you are missing in the entire scheme here. Please stop advancing these self-evident truths that are nothing but uninformed opinions.


OK Laurell, in this case you are completely right. While submission is primarily behavior, it can be emotion as well, and yes, you have to FEEL submissive.

However, I emphasized the behavior part because I wouldn't like her to leave her partner because the thing that is of not so vital importance such as "feeling submissive".
By being submissive she can gradually start to feel it.
Also, by speaking honestly with him and telling him about her feelings, she can inspire him to be more dominant.
Frankly, I think that all the good aspects of her relationship that she described are very rare to find with anyone, and I think it would be a pity to end such
a wonderful relationship just because she doesn't feel submissive temporarily (which of course can change in the future).

So, I was maybe intentionally misleading when I strongly said that submission is only behavior. But this is because I really don't want the relationship to end
because of the relatively unimportant thing that can easily be solved INSIDE the relationship, if only they are open and honest and communicate with each other.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 12:49:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
because the thing that is of not so vital importance such as "feeling submissive".



Stop telling people what is or isnt important/right/good whatever



loverly -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 12:57:21 PM)

Weather or not someone else is a Dominant or submissive.. or nilla or whatever makes no difference to how i feel... inside me .. i am still who i am .. a submissive with a slaves heart waiting to find that ONE person i want to give to and serve and make Happy more than anyone or anything else. PERIOD... i do not feel MORE submissive or slave like if i am kneeling or in chains, ( however Some situations do enhance or make that feeling stronger because i feel alot of excitement and passion and JOY having someOne wish for me to be doing those things and the feeling is returned by me) , and i do not feel LESS if i am NOT doing those things.. or serving One even.

its just how I am.



SocratesNot -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 1:06:56 PM)

In the simplest language possible, all of my arguing on this thread serves only one purpose:

I want to tell the OP that I think that she should be very happy because she found a caring and loving person to submit to, and that it would not be wise for her to try find some jerk or asshole instead.

Cherish what you have! It may be even better than something that you don't have.
Even if you can find a more satisfying partner, after you lose your current partner, you risk being alone or finding some asshole.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.



laurell3 -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 3:30:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

In the simplest language possible, all of my arguing on this thread serves only one purpose:

I want to tell the OP that I think that she should be very happy because she found a caring and loving person to submit to, and that it would not be wise for her to try find some jerk or asshole instead.

Cherish what you have! It may be even better than something that you don't have.
Even if you can find a more satisfying partner, after you lose your current partner, you risk being alone or finding some asshole.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.




These fears are yours, not hers and I'm sorry that you feel that way SN, because you shouldn't. We don't have enough information about the OP to make this type of determination, however, in general I would disagree with you that staying with someone to not be alone when it's not working is a very very sad and unrealistic viewpoint. Nor should you assume that she will "find some jerk or asshole instead" (it is however, as many comments are of yours, very telling about your viewpoint of bdsm and d/s, which is also sad and incorrect).

What you are missing is being submissive is part of who some of us are, it is possible that she cannot just ignore that part to be in a relationship with someone that she doesn't feel that way for, regardless of how kind or loving that person is. Like it or not SN, we are what we are and I promise you, your fear and belief that it will end with "some asshole" or "abuse" is unfounded, inappropriate, rude, presumptive, judgmental and just another kneejerk reaction to the fact that you cannot accept WIITWD. It's ok, you don't have to, we do.



SocratesNot -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 3:47:15 PM)

Laurell, I think you are not right. My fears that she'll find some asshole have nothing to do with WIITWD.

I know A LOT of girls who are 100% vanilla, but they still always end up with assholes and jerks, and no, they don't enjoy it, they regret it very much,
but they keep having relationships with abusive types.

For such people, I really think that some kind of counseling or therapy would be appropriate.

Also, don't assume that WIITWD is totally different from vanilla. Wisdom and common sense are universal and can apply to any kind of relationship.
This is not true that people who haven't experienced WIITWD can't still have some common sense about it, because many things apply to all relationships
not only vanilla or WIITWD.



Jeffff -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 6:09:24 PM)

WHy are you still here?



WyldHrt -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 6:42:01 PM)

quote:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I would rather be without a partner for the rest of my days than settle for a relationship that is not fulfilling to me. Years past, I married a man who was my best friend on the above premise, and it ended horribly. There are far worse things than being alone.

That said, Laurell is quite right. There is nowhere near enough info in the OP to give sound advice, either way.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 8:52:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandernwonder

My question is how can I feel more submissive?



Well, only you can control your feelings.  So i'm not sure i can answer the question.  But i will ask you one thing.  Are you sure that he is dominant enough for you?

i recently served a Domme who was just TOO nice.  W/we became really good friends, but she just wasn't dominant enough.  While i am more than willing to serve, i want to feel that the person i am serving has a certain level of strength (dominance) that draws out my submission.  Without feeling that inspiration from my Domme, my submission feels hollow and "fake".  i find that i can't stay in that type of relationship for very long.

For me, the slight feeling of fear of what will happen if my Domme is displeased is a very important part of the D/s dynamic.  When the Domme is too nice, that element is missing and the relationship lacks something.  There is a certain level of "bossiness" that just seems to be necessary for me to fully accept a Domme's leadership.



BabieGothika -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/30/2010 9:20:24 PM)

I think than u cannot learn to be submissive, u just have to be born with that and no one can tell u what to do, u have to feel it. Just talk to him and tell him how u feel.
That is a good idea, talk ....[;)][;)][;)][8|][8|][8|][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]



LadyPact -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 8:24:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

In the simplest language possible, all of my arguing on this thread serves only one purpose:

I want to tell the OP that I think that she should be very happy because she found a caring and loving person to submit to, and that it would not be wise for her to try find some jerk or asshole instead.

Cherish what you have! It may be even better than something that you don't have.
Even if you can find a more satisfying partner, after you lose your current partner, you risk being alone or finding some asshole.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


Would you give this same advice if this was a vanilla situation where the OP found a nice man that she got along with fairly well, and was thinking about marriage, but she wasn't really in love with him?   There's a big difference between giving someone tips to improve what the situation is and telling them to settle for less than what they want.



SocratesNot -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 8:41:01 AM)

quote:


Would you give this same advice if this was a vanilla situation where the OP found a nice man that she got along with fairly well, and was thinking about marriage, but she wasn't really in love with him?   There's a big difference between giving someone tips to improve what the situation is and telling them to settle for less than what they want.


It depends on situation, but in reality "being in love" usually doesn't last too long, and mutual compatibility in many areas of life is usually more important factor
for the success of a marriage, then initial attraction. After few years even the most passionate sexual attraction can fade, and yes people will get older and uglier,
if you can't love someone even if she is not that beautiful anymore, then she probably isn't a good match for you.

So "being in love" is temporary and transient passionate emotion, while "love" per se, is long lasting affection that has nothing to do with sexual attraction, but, of course
sexual attraction can trigger feelings of love in later phase.

I wouldn't suggest anything to such person, I would tell them to decide for themselves, but I would state that mutual understanding, compatibility, love and affection out of sexual sphere is usually more important factor for long term relationships and marriages then initial sexual attraction which is what people usually refer to when they use the phrase "being in love".

P.S.

After some more thought, I concluded that some reasonable amount of sexual attraction must exist, and if this is not
present at all, the relationship will probably fail.
So I would suggest them that they end such relationship if they find this person completely unattractive.



LadyPact -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 9:31:29 AM)

You're confusing things there a bit.  It's the actual being 'in love' that tends not to be temporary.  That's more the stuff that lust and other things often confused with love are based on.  Also, I'm not quite sure if you understand the difference between loving a person and being in love with them.  Being in love with a person doesn't really hinge on the sexual attraction factor, which I'll absolutely agree has potential to fade as time goes by.  Being in love with a person has the greatest potential for growth of these situations if it is genuine, in My opinion.  Of course, I'm just somebody who has been married for eight years and has no problem saying that I am more in love with My husband as time has progressed.

Even if you were correct in your assumptions of people starting out of being in love, which would only go downhill anyway, why would you suggest that someone only settle for the downhill turn being where they started?  If the best part of a life long relationship is only at the beginning, it wouldn't make much sense for a person to settle for the stuff that would, for most couples, be more than the end.  Who wants to cheat themselves out of that?

Of course, this is somewhat different than the OP's situation.  I'm not especially sure I would have advice for a vanilla person who wasn't in love with a partner to help to encourage them to be in love with them, rather than just have a fondness for them.  Just as I think that adding ritual and protocol might help the OP get in touch with the submissive energy that could just need a little encouragement, it's also very possible that she will never feel submissive towards the other person.  If she doesn't feel that towards him after trying all the suggestions that she can get, I can't especially say that I would suggest that she remain in a dynamic that isn't fulfilling to her.



SocratesNot -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 9:38:21 AM)

quote:

If she doesn't feel that towards him after trying all the suggestions that she can get, I can't especially say that I would suggest that she remain in a dynamic that isn't fulfilling to her.


Of course, but I'll suggest her first to try few things, such as protocol, as you mentioned, and only then leave if everything fails.



wandernwonder -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 10:41:54 AM)

TY everyone for the replies. To clarify a bit- 24/7 isn't feasible for us at this time, I'm not "planning an exit strategy"- I genuinely WANT this to work, because we get along so well on so many levels. I think WestBay was pretty close when he said it was about chemistry- my last relationship was with someone who had an inherently quiet but dominant personality, although there were a number of things which led to the end of that, the chemistry was truely electrifying- I felt extrememly submissve at all times with him, even when we were not physically in the same space.

It seems that my tolerance levels aren't as high now, I have trouble getting into subspace, it's just kind of ho hum kinky sex, the sparks aren't there. llizis' phrase about the "disconnect" seems to be exactly what I feel- I have difficulty bridging the transition between "friend" and "sub".

We do have some protocols for playtime, which help a little, but often feel like "playacting" to me. I know I should discuss it with him, but I haven't quite figured out how to say "Gee, you're a really nice guy, but not dominant enough for me" without it sounding like an insult- which is the last thing I want to do.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 10:45:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandernwonder

I know I should discuss it with him, but I haven't quite figured out how to say "Gee, you're a really nice guy, but not dominant enough for me" without it sounding like an insult- which is the last thing I want to do.
If I'm worried about upsetting someone I often find it helps to express the problem as a problem with *me* rather than them, so maybe "I'm having a problem getting into subspace-could I have your help in solving this problem, please?" would work better.



wandernwonder -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 10:52:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandernwonder

I know I should discuss it with him, but I haven't quite figured out how to say "Gee, you're a really nice guy, but not dominant enough for me" without it sounding like an insult- which is the last thing I want to do.
If I'm worried about upsetting someone I often find it helps to express the problem as a problem with *me* rather than them, so maybe "I'm having a problem getting into subspace-could I have your help in solving this problem, please?" would work better.




Excellent idea- thanks, I never considered that approach.



VaguelyCurious -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 10:55:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandernwonder

Excellent idea- thanks, I never considered that approach.


[:)]

Thus proving that secondary school was worth *something*-teacher manipulation skills never stop being useful...



afkarr -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 10:55:30 AM)

Since you're not 24/7, do you have a menas of regular communication? I find that a daily email, or chat, works wonders. It doesn't have to be lengthy, or even overtly D/s, it's just a little thrill I get from hearing from him regularly that reminds me of us.



DesFIP -> RE: How to feel more submissive (5/31/2010 11:02:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot


However, I emphasized the behavior part because I wouldn't like her to leave her partner because the thing that is of not so vital importance such as "feeling submissive".
By being submissive she can gradually start to feel it.




Who are you to decide that feeling submissive is not of vital importance? To some people it is.

Beyond that, doing it won't make you feel it. Cashiers in fast food places have to smile and say 'have a nice day'. They do this day in and day out and it never makes them feel it, it's just an act.

For me, having to pretend when it isn't there in a relationship is not what I'm willing to do. I will not submit to someone who cannot engender those feelings in me through his actions. Shit, if we were willing to do that, we would go with the first 'kneel, bitch' email we got. And we don't. We are selective, and rightfully. And if one of the criteria I need to submit is him doing things that draws submissive feelings out of me, then that's what it is. And I'm not going to submit to someone who doesn't do that anymore than I can submit to someone short or red haired. I need the chemistry.



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