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how long do You wait before collaring/contracting someo... - 5/29/2010 8:45:43 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

Sorry, i realise it's difficult to make a hard and fast rule, but what is the "norm"? (i'm new to this...) A while back, i had a Dom who wanted me to sign a contract before i even met Him; for me to wear His collar from the moment we met. i didn't argue. i didn't know if this was unusual or not. We had only been exchanging texting for a couple of weeks. i signed the contract and wore the collar. He called me His slave, but i didn't feel like a slave. i just did it because He told me to. It made me feel sort of guilty, like i was committing some kind of fraud. Like i wasn't taking the commitment seriously. i felt like i was going through the motions.

At first i didn't feel attracted to Him, or even that submissive, but i tried. i really did try. i admired Him. i liked talking to Him. But He never felt like more than a friend. After a couple of months we broke up, just like any other couple. It was as if the collar and the contract had meant nothing; as if when i promised my whole life to Him it was just a joke. i feel really guilty about this. i felt like i was breaking my word. i would have preferred to put off the collar and contract until i felt more strongly towards Him, but it wasn't my decision.

What do You think? What do the contract and the collar mean? Do they mean different things to different people? Is it possible that to some Doms they're just for show and don't imply an inviolable commitment to someone. i'm confused. i wouldn't want to take them lightly, or to make any promises to that i couldn't keep, but i also wouldn't want to refuse to wear a collar or sign a contract if i was ordered to. i don't think it's possible to make that kind of a commitment to Someone without knowing them really well. Is it better to refuse to sign a contract or to sign it without being fully committed to a relationship?

i'm sorry if i'm offending anyone; if i seem ignorant or disrespectful. i don't mean to make light of the situation or my responsibilities as a sub. i would welcome any feedback. (i obviously don't know what i'm doing...)
Thanks for reading.

pam

Post #: 1

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 9:06:07 PM

MsLadySue

Posts: 2254
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline

Pam, look at the situation with the same common sense you would if it were simply a man and woman dating. How long would you date him before you knew he is the one you want to go steady with (showing my age here LOL)?

Don't think you must accept a collar or sign a contract against your will. It is your choice ... and anyone who pushes you to do so or says you are not a true submissive when you refuse is an ass.

Always listen to your gut instincts. If it doesn't feel right, don't.

_____________________________

In order for you to insult me, I would first have to value your opinion.
I love it when someone insults me. That means I don't have to be nice anymore.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 2

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 9:28:41 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

pam, you got taken advantage of. Contracts and collars are serious commitments. That's like demanding an engagement before even meeting.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to MsLadySue)

Post #: 3

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 9:46:50 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

i think it depends on what the collar "means". i looked at it as being a serious contract. But if you look at it as being just roleplay, or pretend, then it's okay to just wear it because Someone asks you. i wonder if it means different things to different people. i tend to take things very seriously, in general. It's possible that the contract and collar don't mean the same to everyone. Anyway, i was just curious. Again, thanks for reading.

pam

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 4

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 9:55:55 PM

VAcontroldom

Posts: 65
Joined: 6/5/2005
Status: offline

Steven, while I agree with you in general, I don't think they are serious commitments if the two people don't treat them that way. What if the contract simply said "we will take this seriously and not seek others until we decide if this is right?".

Maybe he was just trying to start the collar of thinking about consideration, which shall come before the collar of consideration but after the cup of coffee of hello but most assuredly before the agreement of exclusive mentorship.

A collar, a contract, a class ring to go steady, or anything else require a meaningful agreement to be meaningful and serious consideration to become a serious commitment. It appears from the OP that this guy didn't make any attempt to communicate what it would mean or to reach any agreement with her. While I would certainly never do this, I find what he did to be more amateurish than evil, since she was able to walk away, with only some misplaced guilt, having never really agreed to anything

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 5

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 9:59:46 PM

GraciousLady

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline

Some people like on line relationships, some people like casual relatioships, some people like to get into as many relationships of any kind that they can just to say they are in relationships. You are apparently a person who takes each relationship seriously and only like to be collared if you feel a real connection. Also, you say it was not your decision to put off wearing his collar or signing the contract. It was totaly your decision! Submission is what you do if and when you want to.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 6

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 10:07:11 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

Maybe there should be "colors" for collars, like there are for karate belts. You could have the "thinking about a relationship" collar, the "getting serious" collar, and the "i'm Your slave" collar...

LOL,
pam

(in reply to GraciousLady)

Post #: 7

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 10:35:16 PM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

The depth and speed of commitment to a collar and/or a contract is up to both people involved, and how seriously they both take the process, and how quickly they both agree to move.

If either party isn't internally engaged with the other in the collaring and commitment process, then ultimately it will most likely not succed.

i've seen M/s relationships where collaring took place almost immediately - and the relationship is very successful as a result, because both parties knew what they wanted and were engaged with each other in the process. i've also seen the flip side, similar to what you experienced.

The difference is that both parties need to be aware and consenting to the process, and engaged with each other in that regard. Otherwise it's just pretty dramatic theater - lots of sound and fury, but no substance.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 8

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 10:43:51 PM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

Ok, so he asked you to sign a contract and wear a collar.

When do you accept?

Here's a rule for the collar: don't accept until you realize that, if he hadn't asked to, you'd be asking him if you could.

For the contract, depends on the contract. None are enforceable by law, and in addition if improperly worded they can be used against him in a court of law. I don't even bother with them for that reason.

But if it's a code of conduct for newbies type of contract, one that is mostly common sense (Don't lie to me, don't act like a nutball, be aware that whippings hurt, etc.) then that's fine to sign. Sometimes putting the 'outs' in a formalized contract can make the rest of the M/s easier to swallow; suspension of disbelief can be more easily achieved. If it's done right.

Doesn't sound like that's your man's plan, but if it is it should be harmless and maybe even a positive sign.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

Post #: 9

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/29/2010 10:46:32 PM

DMFParadox

Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Maybe there should be "colors" for collars, like there are for karate belts. You could have the "thinking about a relationship" collar, the "getting serious" collar, and the "i'm Your slave" collar...

LOL,
pam

You know, that might work if you use a notches system. Like the bits on a black belt that get added. Some traditions have it that you're not even learning martial arts yet until you get to that point... it could be a very rewarding token in M/s, if it actually represents real accomplishments.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 10

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 3:04:21 AM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

It will always depend on what the collar means. If you see it as a lasting commitment then it is treated as such, if you see it as something that is needed for any D/s relationship then you treat it as such.

I have never ever been collared in the way that I see it. I have worn collars but its not the same thing.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to DMFParadox)

Post #: 11

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 3:21:13 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

It's been my experience that there usually is a "courting period" where both parties are getting used to each other and even more so if it is a live in situation. This is just the same for people getting to know each other before living together or making serious commitments in the mundane world. Some Dominants use this period as the "Collar of Consideration" which usually means that the sub/slave is exclusive to that Dominant until either one wished to end it or that both agree to take it further to a full collar. Bruin Cottage uses a "Probationary Collar" which is for this reason and so that the basic training can be done if needed or an assessment on what type of training is needed to bring the slave up to home standards. I have stipulated a Minimum period of 30 days with no limit or maximum period.

My advise to new subs and new slaves is encased in a comment I am want to make when someone who is not in my personal or home collar, addresses me as Master: "Yes I am a Master but, I am not your Master...Yet".

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 12

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 4:10:56 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Sorry, i realise it's difficult to make a hard and fast rule, but what is the "norm"? (i'm new to this...) A while back, i had a Dom who wanted me to sign a contract before i even met Him; for me to wear His collar from the moment we met. i didn't argue. i didn't know if this was unusual or not. We had only been exchanging texting for a couple of weeks. i signed the contract and wore the collar. He called me His slave, but i didn't feel like a slave. i just did it because He told me to. It made me feel sort of guilty, like i was committing some kind of fraud. Like i wasn't taking the commitment seriously. i felt like i was going through the motions.

At first i didn't feel attracted to Him, or even that submissive, but i tried. i really did try. i admired Him. i liked talking to Him. But He never felt like more than a friend. After a couple of months we broke up, just like any other couple. It was as if the collar and the contract had meant nothing; as if when i promised my whole life to Him it was just a joke. i feel really guilty about this. i felt like i was breaking my word. i would have preferred to put off the collar and contract until i felt more strongly towards Him, but it wasn't my decision.
.
pam

hi pam,

i might be totally off base here, but ive come across this myself and the conclusion i came to was that the guys who want you to sign up before you meet, wear theyre collar before it all starts are usually not all that successful at dominance. they think that by holding you to a contract and a collar it will somehow negate from their lack of dominatory skills and that if they put you in that space and rely on you being submissive it will all pan out.

in the end it didnt, its never going to because a sub is looking for a leader in the relationship and if the leader isnt leading there isnt anything to follow. so dont blame youreself there.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 13

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 5:19:11 AM

reynardfox

Posts: 417
Joined: 9/8/2009
Status: offline

Pam, you are dealing with a nutter. Move on.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 14

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 5:20:24 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

quote:

i had a Dom who wanted me to sign a contract before i even met Him; for me to wear His collar from the moment we met. i didn't argue. i didn't know if this was unusual or not. We had only been exchanging texting for a couple of weeks. i signed the contract and wore the collar. He called me His slave, but i didn't feel like a slave. i just did it because He told me to.

Pam...my first thought is to tell you to slow down. He told you to sign the contract? So what? You had never met the fool and were under no obligation to follow his directive. The fact that you signed it may have given him the impression that you were a passive doormat.
You state you were not comfortable with signing and that should have been a red flag to you. The way i see it, you betrayed yourself.

Per your profile you are 34 years old..certainly old enough to know what you want as well as what you do not want. Don't let your desires override your common sense

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(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 15

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 5:21:16 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Nods. What she said.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 16

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 5:32:30 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

The other thing here is that sometimes affections are unrequited. He may have been serious, may well have found that the connection he had found with you was stronger than with others and that to him, you may well have seemed like his one. Unfortunately you didn't share this feeling.

And that's where you went wrong, you did what you were told knowing you didn't believe a word of it. In effect, you lied to him because you were afraid to tell him the truth. Next time be honest, because it's always best not to start with a lie.

Additionally, what do you mean by not feeling like a slave? Because to him, that definition may well be a friend who trusts him enough to follow his lead.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 17

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 6:19:41 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

but it wasn't my decision.

Not sure what this means. If you are in a relationship you get to negotiate and decide what is right for you. If he was making demands before you were ready, you were not in the same place.

_____________________________

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(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 18

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 7:09:50 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VAcontroldom

Steven, while I agree with you in general, I don't think they are serious commitments if the two people don't treat them that way. What if the contract simply said "we will take this seriously and not seek others until we decide if this is right?".

Maybe he was just trying to start the collar of thinking about consideration, which shall come before the collar of consideration but after the cup of coffee of hello but most assuredly before the agreement of exclusive mentorship.

A collar, a contract, a class ring to go steady, or anything else require a meaningful agreement to be meaningful and serious consideration to become a serious commitment. It appears from the OP that this guy didn't make any attempt to communicate what it would mean or to reach any agreement with her. While I would certainly never do this, I find what he did to be more amateurish than evil, since she was able to walk away, with only some misplaced guilt, having never really agreed to anything

Good point, VA. I had interpreted pam's post as implying a formal type collaring, and you;re correct in asserting that some collars, like play collars, don't carry that commitment.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to VAcontroldom)

Post #: 19

RE: how long do You wait before collaring/contracting s... - 5/30/2010 7:55:22 AM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

but it wasn't my decision.

Not sure what this means. If you are in a relationship you get to negotiate and decide what is right for you. If he was making demands before you were ready, you were not in the same place.

Exactly. It means that he told her that it wasn't her decision - something i get also told quite a bit as an unowned slave. There is a grey area of consensual nonconsent with collaring, but bottom line, if it's not the right place for you to serve, you need to be able to put your foot down and walk out the door if necessary.

This is why i really refer to myself as a "slave-wired woman" because it isn't about lying down by the road and waiting for the first Owner to pick me up - which i sometimes get told is what a real slave would do. Ok, so, i'm not real, you all know it now, hee hee!

A potential Owner showing me that he is able to be patient, thoughtful, and meticulous in the collaring process means a lot to me, as it means he will take equally good care of his property after the collaring.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 20

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