Do I or Don't I? (Full Version)

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TNstepsout -> Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 6:36:34 PM)

Ok, this has happened to me twice already and I'd like some feedback from those of you with more experience. I've had two different Doms tell me they think I like something I had told them I didn't like.

In both cases the experience I objected to was similar. In one it was something he did that frightened me. I told him I didn't like being frightened and he responded by telling me "I think you DO like being scared. You like to know you are safe, but you like the feeling of being scared". I wasn't sure how to respond, and needed a little time to think about whether he was right or not. Well it turns out no, he's not right. I don't like it.

The second said something very similar when I told him I didn't like feeling "off-balance". Again, I considered this and....nope, don't like it.

So, I guess my question is, how would you respond to an assertions like this? And if you were confronted with someone presuming to know you better than you know yourself very early on, would you consider it a red flag? Would you just correct the assumption and ask that he deal with you based on what you say about yourself, rather than what he presumes, or would you just walk away?



KnightofMists -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 6:41:53 PM)

Simply tell them this...

"When you stop making assumptions of what a person likes or doesn't like and actually "LISTEN" and "APPRECIATE" their thougths and feelings, then maybe and only maybe will you get more than a... GET LOST LOOSER!!!"


editted to add

PS... If you use this approach.. BEWARNED... you will get the typical response..."YOUR NOT A SUBMISSIVE"



foxglove716 -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 6:46:31 PM)

personally, presumtious people are a pet peeve of mine and can be a red flag. I think anytime someone is trying to get you to do something you don't want to do, you should step back. There is no way this person knows if what he is pushing on you is a hard limit of yours or not, so theres nothing stopping him from really pushing your hard limits. Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!



littlesarbonn -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 7:04:08 PM)

Next time say: "I think I like playing with you but it turns out I DON'T like playing with you."



Sabella -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 7:38:19 PM)

I do think it depends on the infraction and how YOU view it. For me it would be a red flag. I LIKE being scared, but if I told someone I didn't like that & then they tried to scare me by tossing a spider in my lap (lucky me, I LIKE spiders) it would definately be a sign that they were disregarding my wishes. This is suspect. If they disregard them in small matters, then they will in large ones - especially if you let it go.

Now, with that being said.....if it's someone you don't know very well at all perhaps they were testing the waters OR didn't fully understand your limitations and really won't do it again. But maybe they will if you "let it go" this time. There is really no way to know this. Trust your instincts.



wytchywoman -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 7:38:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Ok, this has happened to me twice already and I'd like some feedback from those of you with more experience. I've had two different Doms tell me they think I like something I had told them I didn't like.



I've had some experience with that type of person. In all cases, what they really meant was "I like this and if I just harp on you long enough, I think I can convince you that you do too."

It's natural for a dominant to want to push your limits and expand your horizons, but if you're telling someone you're honestly afraid of what they're proposing, then they need to step back and reassess their own motives, imho.

Good luck.




Arpig -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 9:19:40 PM)

Actually I think you have done what you should, when told by a Dominant that they believed you did in fact enjoy something you thought you didn't enjoy, you thought it over and considered the situation, and Lo! and Behold!, you were right. Once you have that sorted out, then you can go onto what KofM suggested.
It has happened that a dominant sees something in a submissive that leads him to believe she does in fact like something that scares her, and it has happened that he was right (not nearly as often as most dominants would like to think, of course, but it has happened), so i think your approach of reflecting on the issue first is the best approach.



starymists -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/9/2006 10:20:03 PM)

I've had this happen a number of times. And it can happen for a number of reasons. To avoid the situation, I have a checklist that I have used when starting new relationships. 3 are things a Dominant can do, no questions asked. 2s are activities that I may or may not be open to depending on how new the relationship is, how much I trust the person I am with, etc *my soft limits*. With all 2s, I make it really clear that those activities have to be discussed ~before~ the activity is engaged in. 1s are places we are never going to go. Before any scene takes place, I review my checklist with the Dominant, and I review his checklist. I make sure that we discuss anything that he likes to do that might be a limit for me to avoid any misconception and/or assumptions.
 
A lot of times people aren't honest about what they like and don't like. That doesn't give anyone an excuse to cross a line that I've drawn. I'd talk to him/them about why they did what they did. If there isn't a solid reason *like I misunderstood what you meant because you also have 'likes to be forced' high on your list* then, yes, I'd consider it a red flag. I'm overly fond of saying it's a little too late after you are tied up to determine that the person you are with isn't to be trusted to stay within the boundaries set. 




obis -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 2:55:00 AM)

As with most things, i think context is key. I've certainly used this technique, not to push somebody into doing something they didn't like, but rather as a way to test mental boundaries. Let's face it, there are a lot of things that many people say they hate just because they thenk they're "wrong" or don't want to seem too kinky for their partner.

So using a verbal challenge just to verify can be useful, but of course that doesn't include actually making someone do something they've stated they dislike. If you're getting it a lot, it may be that something about the way you're sharing limits strikes people as uncertain or coy. Reiterating of course should do the trick and if it doesn't then get out :)



CanadianGuy -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 3:06:34 AM)

Agreed, obis.  If you're confronted by a dominant about something in your personality, you should consider it.  Really consider it, and even test it, unless that causes you harm.  You're meant to be tested and pushed to some degree.  If you've just met the guy, though, it's kind of annoying I'm sure.  I'd tell him to get to know you a little before making claims like that.



twicehappy -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 4:06:40 AM)

Big red flag! These Doms are not paying attention to you as a person. They apparently are only pleasing themselves. Go find a new play partner.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 7:01:22 AM)

I don't play with them again.  I have niether the time, patience, or health to deal with some dom/top who is too busy being arrogant and right rather than actually LISTEN to what I know about myself.

It happens to me all the time since I don't like pain- it sends out some sort of signal to doms that forces them to go "Oh but *I* know better and will surely convince you of the error of your thinking."

It's ridiculous- I know myself, I am being a big girl and communicating it to you and you're pretty much ignoring me. 

Now, lots of people consider that dominant and aggressive.  I consider it crap.  If they can't take the time to listen and take me into consideration, then they are too wrapped up in themselves and don't respect my perspective enough to continue.

I thank them for the scene and don't scene with them or persue anything with them after that.



wild1cfl -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 7:10:46 AM)

FRom my perspective as a Dominant, I think that when we assume something about a subissive and they negate what we have assumed we need to listen to that submissive adn discuss the issue with them. I always try to listen to any submissive or slave that I scene with as they give me a better idea of what works for them and what does not. It is very important for a submissive to speak up if they are uncomfortable with something adn for the Dominant to listen and react to what the submissive says. Although we as Dominants like to think that we have the power, we only have the power as long as we do not abuse it.   
I would discuss these issues with these Dominants in a neutral setting with open adn hoenst communicaton adn let them know how you feel about the issues. If they respond appropriately they will listen adn not push you on these issues again. If they act as if they know better and know what is best for you I would say goodbye adn find someone who is going to be willing ot listen to you.



ivorylace -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 8:18:24 AM)

I would probably tell them to swallow their egos and their arrogance and go play elsewhere.

Yep, red flag!! NOT interested.

~lace



TNstepsout -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 8:21:16 AM)

Thanks to all for kind and informative responses. This definitely (oh yeah, and thanks to the spelling peeve thread for making sure I spell "definitely" correctly) helps validate what I was feeling and thinking on this issue. I also imagine I probably DO give off some mixed signals as I'm quite new and uncertain, so I'll work on that too.

I think if it happens again I'll ask for some clarification as in "what makes you think I like X?" That way I can find out if it's something about me that is communicating that impression. If it seems to be a general assumption that "all subs like X" then I'll know I'm dealing with someone who isn't likely to listen to me.

Thanks again!



LadyWolfdreams -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 8:59:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Simply tell them this...

"When you stop making assumptions of what a person likes or doesn't like and actually "LISTEN" and "APPRECIATE" their thougths and feelings, then maybe and only maybe will you get more than a... GET LOST LOOSER!!!"


editted to add

PS... If you use this approach.. BEWARNED... you will get the typical response..."YOUR NOT A SUBMISSIVE"


*lol* Love that response. Actually sounds like something my slave would say to someone in that situation. It's one of the reasons I love him - but you're right, you will inevitable get the "You're not a real submissive" response. Of course, if they're assuming that they know what you like and who you are without actually listening to you, does it really matter if they think you're real or not?

Lady Wolfdreams



foxnotinsox -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 12:14:52 PM)

quote:

... I've had two different Doms tell me they think I like something I had told them I didn't like.
<snip>
So, I guess my question is, how would you respond to an assertions like this? And if you were confronted with someone presuming to know you better than you know yourself very early on, would you consider it a red flag? Would you just correct the assumption and ask that he deal with you based on what you say about yourself, rather than what he presumes, or would you just walk away?


Actually I would do neither .. and question or clarify it. Where did he get this assumption? Why does he think it applies to you? ... And then I would correct him. Doms are not omniscient, and <gasp> can be mistaken. If he still insisted, then I would think seriously about walking away.

There could be a grain of truth in what these guys were saying .. <smiles> just playing devil's advocate here ... in that fear and imbalance raise one's arousal levels, in a general sense. By playing with the stimulus, the arousal of fear can be turned into something else. Yes, fear may not be a likable feeling, but the aftereffects can be nice =)

Perhaps too he [they?] were hoping to be your protector ;]

Who knows .. me, as I said, would question more if there was a gap in communication.



PlayfulOne -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 2:15:46 PM)

Depends, in a situation where you are just meeting someone or it is for a "play" enconter, they have no business trying to "expand" your horizons.  Inside of a relationship there are times when your partenr may tell you they are not interested or dislike something that yoiu may have reasons to believe otherwise.  You shouls atill not force anything upon then but try and lead them to a point where you can find out why they dislike or have no interest in that certain thing.  I have been involved with poeple who I found out diusliked a certain thing because some one before had performed it badly with them, from there we went on to make them comfortable enough to try again and it changed there outlook.  Again, that was inside of an involved relatiosnhip and certaintly not with some one I was just getting together with for the evening. 

K



truesub4u -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 4:59:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I think if it happens again I'll ask for some clarification as in "what makes you think I like X?" That way I can find out if it's something about me that is communicating that impression. If it seems to be a general assumption that "all subs like X" then I'll know I'm dealing with someone who isn't likely to listen to me.

Thanks again!


Hiya Tn.... I got one question... Why?

Why would you let someone tell you, you are giving mixed signals when you are not. No means no. I do not like. NO I DO NOT LIKE. No mixed signal there. They tell you ..... yes you do. Well ... time to have a good laugh... as you are waving good bye. And like KoM said....be prepared for them to try to belittle you.... discredit you. But hell, you're still secure in yourself, and they're down the road looking for new prey.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Do I or Don't I? (4/10/2006 8:08:18 PM)

IMO..this question has many variables..is this in the context of simple play?.context of a full D/s relationship of some length?new D/s relationship of only weeks?..Simple play...Dom/me should respect your understanding of self better than he...Full D/s of length..Dom/me should know you well enough to possibly try to expand your horizons to possibly push the envelope,you may discover with a couple of times of trying that which was not a hard limit to you but one you may of felt was not desireable may become desireable..New D/s relationship...Dom/me should of course sit down and discuss the dislike understand reason for it and both come to some agreement of maybe possible down road or.new variation.or wait until full trust factor has been established to the point that they do know you as well as you know yourself....be well..Tempting 



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