RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 10:34:33 AM)

Define "terrorist".

Somehow it keeps changing.




PoeticMaster19 -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 10:42:21 AM)

May I add that the primary weapon that the boarding soldiers were armed with were paintball guns

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/30/israel-attacks-palestinian-aid-flotilla_n_595033.html

And only used live handgun rounds when they were forced to (2 handguns were stolen from soldiers to be used against them). Also in the attacks against the soldiers were a stun grenade and fire bomb (see video below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE




pahunkboy -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 10:45:49 AM)

[image]http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/may2010/310510feature2.jpg[/image] Israel: IDF Troops Who Murdered Innocent People Are ‘Brave Heroes’
From Alex.  LOL.  He is not right wing.   Always interesting- even when I am not sure I agree.

death toll 19.



Termyn8or -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 11:39:39 AM)

"Israel said its commandos were attacked by knives, clubs and live fire from two pistols wrested from soldiers after they rappelled from a helicopter to board one of the vessels."

Oh dear, they just didn't bow their heads and give thanks ?

Remember, everything, no matter what, if Israel does it, it is OK.

Got it. I'm glad we are on the same page now. Now stop being so bigoted.

T



PoeticMaster19 -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 12:06:42 PM)

*Actually* There is precedent for seizing enemy property on neutral ships. It is illegal to confiscate enemy property on neutral ships bound for a neutral port, however the ship was bound for an enemy port. Therefore Israel is consistent with international precedent as well as without breaking any behavior regulations. They boarded the ship with paint guns (not machine guns) and attempted to seize enemy property to check for weapons. The first soldier to step on the ship was stabbed and thrown over board.



Fellow -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 12:07:01 PM)

Some people just committed suicide. I can not support or protest it.



LadyEllen -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 12:24:54 PM)

The most interesting thing here, and in recent incidents indeed, is the apparently utter loss of competence by the Israelis, not only in the execution of their schemes but on the PR front too.

E



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 1:55:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The most interesting thing here, and in recent incidents indeed, is the apparently utter loss of competence by the Israelis, not only in the execution of their schemes but on the PR front too.

E


Loss of "competence" on the PR front? ymbfk



rulemylife -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 2:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What a hell on earth…hate hate hate that is all those people can feel. Both claim to be the chosen people and each surely will burn in hell.

Would you not think that Israel could have blockaded the ships then negotiated a search to be sure weapons were not being smuggled. Let them drop off their humanitarian aid and perhaps gain support for their position rather than world condemnation?

Butch


I'm confused what to believe here.

If read the link and looked at the video Israel did offer just that, but apparently they also imposed other restrictions on some apparently benign items like cement which is why the relief group refused.



Moonhead -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 3:01:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The most interesting thing here, and in recent incidents indeed, is the apparently utter loss of competence by the Israelis, not only in the execution of their schemes but on the PR front too.

E

It's a long while since they seem to have given a stuff about PR, frankly.



rulemylife -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 3:06:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Israel said its commandos were attacked by knives, clubs and live fire from two pistols wrested from soldiers after they rappelled from a helicopter to board one of the vessels."

Oh dear, they just didn't bow their heads and give thanks ?

Remember, everything, no matter what, if Israel does it, it is OK.

Got it. I'm glad we are on the same page now. Now stop being so bigoted.

T


What in God's name are you talking about?

I posted the article, I didn't write it, and as of yet I have not given my opinion one way or the other.



Politesub53 -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 3:56:55 PM)

If the Israeli troops were being attacked with guns and knives, as seems likely in the video, I cant blame them for reacting the way they did. It seems some of the activists were intent on a violent confrontation and paid the price. However, if the troops opened fire before being attacked, thats a whole different issue.



PoeticMaster19 -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 5:18:01 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI As the soldiers land on the ship they are being dragged off and beaten before they had a chance to even fire the paintball guns they brought onto the ship, only using their live fire hand guns after they couldn't control the crowd with non lethal weaponry.



rulemylife -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 5:37:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

If the Israeli troops were being attacked with guns and knives, as seems likely in the video, I cant blame them for reacting the way they did. It seems some of the activists were intent on a violent confrontation and paid the price. However, if the troops opened fire before being attacked, thats a whole different issue.


Like I said, I'm not really taking a position on this until more facts are available.

But I am wondering why the Israelis chose to board these ships in this manner when they let five of the previous aid flotillas from this group pass through.

And as far as I know, the three that were turned away were never boarded.



kdsub -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 7:10:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


They were deliberately in violation of the Israeli embargo and knew they were going to be boarded. So what was there to negotiate?



Sanity I am not defending or condemning anyone...BUT...it was obvious the plan...why fall for it...Anyone with sense would have OK'd the shipments of humanitarian supplies if a full inspection of the ships were allowed...This would have defused and countered the tactics of the flotilla.

Then if they did not stop for the inspection Israel would have been justified to use force. It would not change the reaction of the Muslim world but it would have mitigated the condemnation of the rest of the world.

The way they went about it was just stupid.

Butch



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 7:15:14 PM)

Once again, the politically correct media doesn't fully explain the other side. Israel is constantly under attack. They have every right to inspect any ship, plane or truck that enters gaza or the west bank to check for weapons or contraband.

The truth is that it would have been an uneventful inspection if the commandos who were rapelling down had not been attacked when they landed on the ship. They were beating them with clubs.




rulemylife -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 7:23:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Once again, the politically correct media doesn't fully explain the other side. Israel is constantly under attack. They have every right to inspect any ship, plane or truck that enters gaza or the west bank to check for weapons or contraband.

The truth is that it would have been an uneventful inspection if the commandos who were rapelling down had not been attacked when they landed on the ship. They were beating them with clubs.




There seems to be some discrepancy there.

According to the article a Turkish reporter, who was on one of the boats, said the ships were fired on before they were boarded.



kdsub -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 7:25:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Once again, the politically correct media doesn't fully explain the other side. Israel is constantly under attack. They have every right to inspect any ship, plane or truck that enters gaza or the west bank to check for weapons or contraband.

The truth is that it would have been an uneventful inspection if the commandos who were rapelling down had not been attacked when they landed on the ship. They were beating them with clubs.




You miss my point...but that figures.

Butch



PoeticMaster19 -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 8:38:14 PM)

Israel had asked them to dock in port for inspection. The ships replied that they were destined for Gaza.

and to "rulemylife" the ships were supposed to be fired on with nonlethal force (ie rubber bullets and such). If Israel was using lethal force before being attacked and before boarding they wouldn't let a crowd form around where they were landing. Its nonsense to think they had machine guns, were using them and they still almost got lynched by mobs. Oh yea, and they only managed to kill 20 tops....

All videos from on and around the ship showed the Israeli's being attacked or being unable to keep the passengers back, suggesting they were shooting them with nonlethal rounds and not actual bullets, which would have killed the attackers rather than letting them wrestle hand to hand with the commandos.



kdsub -> RE: Israeli commandos storm aid flotilla; 10 killed (5/31/2010 8:42:30 PM)

That is not my point either... this flotilla has been public knowledge for weeks I even knew it was planned and coming. Israel should have made known in advance that they would allow the aid but would need to inspect the cargo... not just before they boarded when all this would be up to debate.

They could have easily defused this obvious ploy for publicity.

Butch



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