RE: I Was Just Following Orders

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 5/31/2010 9:05:10 PM

mcbride

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I agree, DarlingSavage, and it is indeed 'a lovely sentiment on Memorial Day', since it honours lots of brave folks who died, and separates them from the low-life torture apologists who try to somehow blend in, as if they don't cheapen the sacrifices.

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 5/31/2010 9:42:14 PM

Silence8

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

I know this is kind of old news, but still, as far as I know, nothing has been done to prosecute those responsible for violating the terms of the Geneva Convention. However, I was watching a film on the prosecution of Adolph Eichmann and others and in his testimony, Eichmann states that the only thing he is guilty of is following orders. He states that the only ones responsible for the atrocities of Auschwitz and the other camps are solely those that were in political authority. This made me think of the controversy surrounding those that carried out orders to perform torture for the US in the pursuit of "intelligence". I recall people saying several times over that the men and women actually committing the torture shouldn't be prosecuted since they were merely being obedient and "following orders". This sickens me. Don't people know the difference between right and wrong? Especially on this level.

I think that if it was wrong for people of the SS and the Gestapo on the lower rungs of hierarchy to commit these crimes, it is also equally wrong for our people to commit these same crimes. Will people be so blind as to just follow orders or does anyone follow the guidance of their own conscience, even to the point of persecution?

The Army I was in told us to be kind to POWs because that way, we could befriend our enemies. That's what they showed to us privates new in basic, anyway. Anyway, torture doesn't really procure intelligence, all you get is people saying what you want them to say just to make you stop hurting them. Well, I'm curious to know what people think.

Google search 'Little Eichmanns' (a bit of a controversy a while back, Ward Churchill, a Native American professor, loses his jobs by comparing the people inside the WTC to Adolf Eichmann).

The thing is, though, that Noam Chomsky, truly one of the heroes of Hannah Arendt (who wrote the famous book on Eichmann), in an interview basically agreed with Churchill!

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 5/31/2010 9:51:35 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think they should all be held responsible. They should start with the people in authority first. One thing that has to be changed is this idea of immunity for people that work in the government. Everybody should be equal under the law whether it's the queen of England or the president or a general or anyone else in government. There is a reason they say you can't fight City Hall and this is it!

The way bush and cheney threw those poor enlisted soldiers under the bus to save their own asses still disgusts me.What cowards.

The guards said they were ordered............. and were supervised by officers at every "enhanced" interrogation.

That female private who was holding the leash(actually,it was a shipping strap they used to drag prisoners out of the cells) said in an interview that they(her superiors)tortured an Iraqi man to death in the room next to her.She said she could feel the vibration in her chest, as he screamed and gasped and remembers it to this day.

Where any officers brought up on charges at Abu-ghraib?

Interesting note that`s often overlooked.

It was bush himself who stopped the torture,...er.... enhanced interrogation,within the 1st year it was started.To the chagrin of cheney.

For the most part,the water-boarding and other "techniques" were not used for the last 6 years of bush`s presidency.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/31/2010 10:00:27 PM >

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 5/31/2010 10:52:32 PM

DarlingSavage

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thank you all for responding. I will contribute my own thoughts later. I'm very happy to see how many agree with me on this point.

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 5/31/2010 11:06:01 PM

DarlingSavage

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I'm a bit drunk now. WTF was I talking about? Posting my own thoughts? I'll get back with y'all when I can actually think again! LOL

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 5/31/2010 11:59:01 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

One victim was waterboarded over 100 times.

Why do we never get the name, when this is brought up, Steve? It's not a secret. Do you think it would hurt your argument to mention that it was the guy who planned 9/11, not just some random guy, from some random battlefield, who managed to be freaky enough to get his ass shipped to Cuba?

I just forgot his name and wanted to post. I think his initials are KSL, and he was the mastermind of 9/11.

However, that's irrelevant. He had info, he either gave it or didn't, and we kept torturing him past when they was any point to it. The fact that he was a killer doesn't change the fact that he had nothing left to give.

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 6/1/2010 12:24:27 AM

DarlingSavage

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quote:

That female private who was holding the leash

Was actually mentally challenged, if I remember correctly. I think she must be the only one capable of claiming following orders as a defense. And apparently still, it was disturbing to her to hear the torture of others.

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RE: I Was Just Following Orders - 6/1/2010 1:46:49 AM

pahunkboy